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Most refugees aren't from Syria, most are young men

So: Country A is in turmoil, people from country A flee to country B. Country B cannot cope with all the refugees but could manage with help from countries C, D and E. Those countries bleat about not being willing to take 'economic migrants'.

This is disgusting behaviour. Selfish and hard-hearted.

Except you have it wrong. Countries C-Z are paying country B to provide food, clothing, and shelter already but country B Is taking the money and then trying to get people to go to countries C-Z anyway.

So, yes, there is a bunch of backstabbing and double dealing but not the type you are thinking of.
 
Dying as cannon fodder in a war that's tearing your country apart and dragging its economy into a black hole is not an improvement.

Getting out of there and staying alive and improving yourself in a peaceful country means you're actually able to really improve your own country when peace comes.
 
"Young men"? Any of our MRAs from the other thread willing to take that one up?
*chirping noises*

Yeah that's what I thought.
 
Dying as cannon fodder in a war that's tearing your country apart and dragging its economy into a black hole is not an improvement.

Getting out of there and staying alive and improving yourself in a peaceful country means you're actually able to really improve your own country when peace comes.

I am very glad Americans did feel that way during the revolution and civil war. Personally, I think if you are unwilling to stand up for what you believe in and oppose tyranny then you deserve what you get.
 
I am very glad Americans did feel that way during the revolution and civil war. Personally, I think if you are unwilling to stand up for what you believe in and oppose tyranny then you deserve what you get.

How would they oppose tyranny? By fighting for Assad?

Only applies to young white western males remember

I don't really understand this post.
 
Only applies to young white western males remember
What do you think would need to be said here? As far as I can see not a single person tried to argue that young men should not be allowed to be refugees of war or anything like that (which WOULD have been something I'd argue against, even from a humanist perspective, so MRAs would probably be all over the place on that).

The reason young men are mentioned is for the simple reason that it would indeed be odd (or at least different from what we'd generally expect) if the people fleeing from a warzone were mostly men. But of course, the statistics linked on the second(?) page already contradicted that.

The only thing that I could vaguely identify as an MRA-issue here is the notion that men are "supposed" to stay in warzones, but as far as I can remember that one has already been tackled.

I know, I know... nuances!
 
How would they oppose tyranny? By fighting for Assad?



I don't really understand this post.

Personally, if I was a young Syrian male I would join the moderate opposition. Of course, all of those moderates seem to have decided their own country is not worth fighting for and that a life on welfare in Germany sounds better than fighting to improve their own country. The west should be drafting them into military training, arming them, and sending them back to fight instead of allowing them to run away and mooch off of western taxpayers.

Take that option off the table and tell them their only option is to fight because cowards aren't welcome here. That is what I would do anyway.
 
Personally, if I was a young Syrian male I would join the moderate opposition. Of course, all of those moderates seem to have decided their own country is not worth fighting for and that a life on welfare in Germany sounds better than fighting to improve their own country. The west should be drafting them into military training, arming them, and sending them back to fight instead of allowing them to run away and mooch off of western taxpayers.

Take that option off the table and tell them their only option is to fight because cowards aren't welcome here. That is what I would do anyway.

Out of curiosity, how old are you?

Did you know that refugees in Britain get housing and ten pounds a day?
 
What do you think would need to be said here? As far as I can see not a single person tried to argue that young men should not be allowed to be refugees of war or anything like that (which WOULD have been something I'd argue against, even from a humanist perspective, so MRAs would probably be all over the place on that).

The reason young men are mentioned is for the simple reason that it would indeed be odd (or at least different from what we'd generally expect) if the people fleeing from a warzone were mostly men. But of course, the statistics linked on the second(?) page already contradicted that.

The only thing that I could vaguely identify as an MRA-issue here is the notion that men are "supposed" to stay in warzones, but as far as I can remember that one has already been tackled.

I know, I know... nuances!

Here's my take. The Eurostat data that c_h linked to in post one details asylum seekers to the EU during this crisis and is not exclusive to Syrian refugees. The UNCHR data that mech linked is for Syrian refugees regardless of destination and so it includes refugees to Egypt and other non-European countries.

The Eurostat website has a data explorer that one can use to examine their information. Filtering down to people of Syrian origin, I found that in August (the most recent month for which relatively complete data is available), 47,885 asylum seekers listed Syria as their nation of origin (from a total of 142,560). That's a third of all of the EU's asylum seekers. Of those Syrians, 34,615, 72%, were men. UNCR says that there are a total of 4,289,792 registered Syrian refugees and that 681,713 of them have applied for asylum in Europe (figures cumulative from April, 2011 to October, 2015). That's about 16% of the total Syrian refugees applying to the EU.

As others have pointed out, the differences in how many of them are single young men isn't necessarily conflicting. A variety of factors may encourage single men versus families to seek asylum in the EU versus the families seeking asylum globally.

Consider, for example, that EU policies mandate that asylum seekers file for asylum within the first EU nation they arrive. For Syrians, this will often mean Hungry. However, Hungry and other nearby EU nations are less attractive to asylum seekers than other nations because of the relative disparities in asylum law and because of economic differences. As such, many asylum seekers are clandestinely traveling across Europe to reach Germany, Sweden, or another nation with more attractive asylum policies. That sort of journey is likely a lot easier for a single person, and a single man in particular, to make than making the journey with a family in tow. In contrast, the trip from Syria to other non-EU states, like Turkey, may be easier for a family to undertake.

Once the asylum seeker reaches his destination, various EU policies probably make it easier, relative to those seeking asylum in non-EU countries, to bring back the rest of his family. Again, this may incentivize young men to act as anchor asylum seekers through which the rest of the family may be brought into the EU. This might not be the case for those seeking asylum in, say, Egypt where the policy may be less forgiving of bringing in family members who did not make the initial journey.

A variety of social concerns may also encourage young men to seek asylum. It is probably likely that men are more socially able to leave their families and seek asylum than their distaff peers. Families may be more likely to give their savings to the men in their family than the women to make the journey for asylum because men and women have different roles within the family unit. An unmarried woman in Arabic societies is the responsibility of her father, a married one the responsibility of her husband. In contrast, an unmarried man is his own man with greater autonomy.

Finally, we may wish to consider that the Eurostat and UNCHR figures may be tracking slightly different figures. Eurostat, as mentioned, has the number of asylum applicants in the EU. UNCHR cites the number of registered refugees. I'm not sure what, exactly, the conditions for being a registered refugee are, but I would assume that they are not as stringent as being an asylum applicant in the EU. Which is to say that the UNCHR numbers probably incorporate the population tracked by Eurostat, but there may well be Syrian refugees in Europe who have not applied for asylum and are thereby not included in the Eurostat figures.
 
I think not taking an obvious troll bait is rather positive instead.
What? This time men are actually legitimately stereotyped, either as aggressive, as potential criminals or rapists, or as cowards who do not want to fight ISIS.

It's the perfect opportunity to prove you actually care about men's issues.
 
Given the apparent prerequisite of attacking feminists in a legitimate MRA post, it is taking a bit of time to launch a response to your challenge, Leoreth.
 
Personally, if I was a young Syrian male I would join the moderate opposition. Of course, all of those moderates seem to have decided their own country is not worth fighting for and that a life on welfare in Germany sounds better than fighting to improve their own country. The west should be drafting them into military training, arming them, and sending them back to fight instead of allowing them to run away and mooch off of western taxpayers.

Take that option off the table and tell them their only option is to fight because cowards aren't welcome here. That is what I would do anyway.
This post was nominated for the 'Stupidest Post Ryika has read today'-Award.
...and you won! Congratulations. Here's your price. :trophy2: :D

I imagine being a moderate in Syria must be about the same as standing between a hardcore-feminist and a hardcore-mra. There are just situations when you have to accept that the situation is hopeless. :mischief:

Yes, I just equated living in a warzone with having to listen to 2 ideologues yelling profanities at each other. :sad:
 
What? This time men are actually legitimately stereotyped, either as aggressive, as potential criminals or rapists, or as cowards who do not want to fight ISIS.

It's the perfect opportunity to prove you actually care about men's issues.

Despite the name and their claims, MRAs are only interested in western (white, cis, straight) males, sorry mate
 
Yeah there were a few people who responded I think though some of them not directly to leoreth's post anyway. At least to the issue.
 
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