MRG's Random Game of Randomness

Preflight/Assessment:

We're close to the end of this game with a horrible start. Egypt should be mopped up in a few turns.

We don't need to research flight if we can keep the Koreans on our side. What we need to do instead with our gold is rush libraries in old Egypt/Portugal/Bayz territory. Libraries are a more expensive, yet faster way of expanding our culture borders. I have a feeling that we need to do this to prevent culture flips to America and Korea.

Lagesh will complete the UN in 17 turns.

Pusan will complete the UN in 26 turns.

That is excellent news. It means the person who goes after me will need to the turn before the UN is built get the world to go to war with Sumer. I recently had a game where one country built the UN ahead of me, but didn't trigger the diplomacy option because they were at war with every other nation. We can dodge the diplomacy loss rather easily.

Plan

Raise luxury rate, destroy Egypt, rush libraries in conquered cities.
 
At this late stage, we cannot hope to start competing on global cultural share.

To fill in cultural gaps in conquered territory of defeated enemies, Settlers are cheaper than both Temples and Libs. So I would only rush Cultural buildings in e.g. coastal towns which have Fish/Whales within their potential BFC.

Elsewhere, local foreign cultural pressure is only an issue in border towns with BFC tiles under foreign control, so the quickest way to get those tiles under our control instead, is by capturing the foreign town exerting that pressure!

So rush Tanks, not Libs!
 
The only spot in our current territory I can see that needs libraries due to mountains is that a stretch of lots of mountains in southern what-used-to-be-Spain, but it also looks like there's a tons of mountains in America where we'll need culture to grab the territory.
 
Turn Log

Spoiler :

Preturn: Investigated Lagesh. Will complete the UN in 17 turns. Investigated Pusan. Will complete UN in 26 turns.

Raised lux to 30%.

Rushed a couple of libraries in cities that need to expand into mountain territory where using settlers isn't an option.

Rushed a few settlers

IBT:

Giza flips. We have an army right next to it so no big deal.

Avaris flips.

T 281

Captured Giza no losses

Founded a few cities.

An elite tank near Pi-Ramesses pops a MGL. City captured.

Avaris captured.

El-Ashmunein captured.

IBT: zzzzz

T 282

Busiris captured

Prilep captured

Tanis captured

IBT

Korea completes SETI program

T 283

Bubastis destroyed along with Egypt.

Reduced lux to 10%

Mass rushed settlers

Moving workers to rail to America.

IBT

zzzzz

T 284

Built several cities

Railed with workers in preparation to attack America.

IBT

zzzzz

T 285

More preparation to rail to attack America.

Traded world maps with America to get their updated map.

IBT:

zzzzz

T 286

Same as last turn really. Planning to attack America next turn as rails that I need should be completed. Rushing cavalry to make cavalry armies. While a tank army would be better, cavalry armies with movement of 4 will allow me to capture a few more American cities this first turn. The intent is to prevent drafting as much as possible. I am of course going to still use tank armies.

Also signing ROP with Korea. If I do this right, America will fall in just a few turns.

IBT:

T 287

Finish railing where I need to.

Declare on America

Elephantine falls

Nicomedia falls and we get a MGL from an elite tank

San Diego falls

Albuquerque falls

Las Vegas falls

Iconium falls

Phoenix falls

Kansas City falls

Cincinnati falls

Buffalo falls

Washington falls

Baltimore falls

Houston falls

IBT:

Americans capture Prilep, an undefended city and an oversight on my part.

T 288

Take back Prilep

Dallas falls

Cleveland falls

Los Angeles falls

New York falls

St Louis falls

IBT

Sumer attempts to put a spy in our capitol

Some cities start to get upset.

T 299

Raise lux to 70% because why not?

Boston falls

Chicago falls

Miami falls

Seattle falls

Filling in the gaps with settlers gives us 66% world area.

Enlist Korea to go to war against the Americans as they have a massive amount of infantry in the mountains that were returning home from the Egyptian war. I have been using artillery to bombard them but need Korea to distract them while I go after the rest of their cities.

Join a whole bunch of workers to cities

IBT

Sumer builds Manhattan Project

Koreans attack the American units in the mountains just like I wanted.

T 300

San Francisco falls

Denver falls

Philadelphia falls

Detroit falls and the Americans are destroyed.


Notes

- We have 67% world area and 62% population. The next turnset will likely be the last or the turnset after if population growth is slow.

- There may be settlers floating around in conquered territory, but I'm pretty sure all have founded a city or joined one.

- There are probably still workers floating around that can join cities.

- Check the status of the UN builds.

- Watch for starvation. Several cities are in danger of having starvation happen and we need all the pop we can get.
 

Attachments

  • MRG 1500 AD.SAV
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Wow, that was a pretty rapid destruction of America! I think I'm up next, I'll take a look at the save shortly.
 
1500 AD (Pre-Flight):

-We’re over the domination area limit but not the population limit. F3 says we have 12 native workers and I count around 23 slaves. I don’t think joining workers will quite get us there, sadly- there’s definitely enough citizens in the world that ~35 isn’t going to be 5% of the population.

-Based on what MRG said about the UN build I think Sumeria should be about 7 turns from finishing it; I can easily recheck it. That said I’m not sure if we need to- we can always avoid the Diplomatic victory being a problem by just declaring war and MA’ing Korea against Sumeria. We might have to. I think it would be fairly doable to rush some transports near Sumeria and send an invasion force their way- we have enough Tank armies to do some damage to them.

-I reassign some specialists in the core to work the fields to keep cities from starving. Outside the core, I rush Harbors in New Karakorum 3 and New Bayanhongor 2, send some formerly resisting American workers back into the fields, and build a few railroads near some other starving cities that will finish before they starve. I discover, to my immense annoyance, that Korea still hasn’t actually railroaded their territory enough to send more workers through it, making me wonder whether it would be worth it to just go build some damn rails in Korea myself.

-We don’t need any more cities but we need population, so I reassign every settler or worker build in any city to build a Tank instead.
 
Good job, that was fast...!

Sumer has 231 citizens, and according to F8, that amounts to 13%. Let's attack quickly (they are rated weak compared to us) and take a few big cities, e.g. the 6 cities in the line Kuara -- Ur have 118 citizens that should be more than enough. (Plus we still have 30-40 workers/slaves that can be joined somwhere. And many towns are going to grow within 5 turns. Didn't count them, but it's probably more than 50... Could be that we only need 2-3 of those Sumerian cities.)
 
Yes it was. What helped was a bunch of infantry units were headed toward that last Egyptian city. I blocked them from being able to quickly go back to their territory, so they were all stranded by the time I declared war. Most cities had 2 or 3 units guarding them.

It also helped that all of their cities had rails connected to them. So all I really needed was to rail a few unworked tiles and sign a ROP with Korea to hit them hard and fast.
 
Also a cautionary note. Military rating by the advisor does not take into account the type of unit, but the number of units. I noticed this in a game where I was considered weak to America, but all America had were mass stacks of warriors while I had pikemen and swords.

Sumer knows flight and has built the Manhattan project. It is very possible that they have more superior units and their military strength wise is about the same as ours.
 
Sorry for the delays, just had a pretty busy couple of weeks, but I'm finished now. Gentlemen, we have a Domination victory.

Spoiler :

1500 AD (Pre-Flight):

-We’re over the domination area limit but not the population limit. F3 says we have 12 native workers and I count around 23 slaves. I don’t think joining workers will quite get us there, sadly- there’s definitely enough citizens in the world that ~35 isn’t going to be 5% of the population.

-Based on what MRG said about the UN build I think Sumeria should be about 7 turns from finishing it; I can easily recheck it. That said I’m not sure if we need to- we can always avoid the Diplomatic victory being a problem by just declaring war and MA’ing Korea against Sumeria. We might have to. I think it would be fairly doable to rush some transports near Sumeria and send an invasion force their way- we have enough Tank armies to do some damage to them.

-I reassign some specialists in the core to work the fields to keep cities from starving. Outside the core, I rush Harbors in New Karakorum 3 and New Bayanhongor 2, send some formerly resisting American workers back into the fields, and build a few railroads near some other starving cities that will finish before they starve. I discover, to my immense annoyance, that Korea still hasn’t actually railroaded their territory enough to send more workers through it, making me wonder whether it would be worth it to just go build some damn rails in Korea myself.

-We don’t need any more cities but we need population, so I reassign every settler or worker build in any city to build a Tank instead.

PAUSE FOR DISCUSSION

-After discussion, it’s clear we’re attacking Sumeria. Our Transports in the middle of the ocean would all take 7 turns to reach it, so I decide to just rush some transports in the cities closest to Sumeria. I notice to my annoyance that one of them, Pi-Ramesses, has a bunch of resistors and can’t rush, so I relocate enough troops there to hopefully quell the resistance quickly, and while I’m at it also have some units try to put down resistors in other places.

-Spend 675 gold to upgrade our captured American Trebuchets to Artillery

-Start building some railroads in Korean territory to get troops through them to the eventual Sumerian front faster, and put other workers in our core to work clearing some of the pollution there- why are there so many just sitting around doing nothing when there’s work to be done?

-The lux rate clearly doesn’t need to be at 70% anymore- messing around I realize I can comfortably drop it to 0 and just handle the few unhappy cities with some taxmen.

-We’re making lots of money now and I really want to make sure I’m right about how much time we have, so I investigate Lagash again. 7 turns out. I can’t imagine Pusan is closer if it was 26 turns out 10 turns ago. I breathe a small sigh of relief.

IBT:

-Our deal with Sumeria for Incense runs out. They’ll continue selling it to us for Rubber, three of our luxes, and around 165 gpt, but I figure at that price I might as well just raise the lux tax back up again and I’d rather them lose Rubber sooner rather than later, and we’d just lose the Incense in a few turns anyway.

-Sadly, this means a few cities riot from the lack of Incense. Whoops. On the bright side, most of the resistance was quelled.

1505 AD (Turn 1):

-I go check what Korea wants for Wines. They’ll trade it to us for Furs, Dyes, Spices, Ivory, Horses, Coal, and 66 gpt. Sure, I’ll take that. I kinda want them to have Coal so they’ll get back to building more railroads. To try to direct those railroads where I want, I stick tanks on all the mined squares near Pusan that don’t already have a railroad so they can’t use it to speed up the UN build.

IBT:

-The riots end, build another Army and a bunch of Tanks, and global warming erases a jungle! I didn’t think there’d be enough pollution for that, but there is.

1510 AD (Turn 2):

-Rush some more transports and wait for all the armies to heal.

IBT:

-Not much else

1515 AD (Turn 3):

-I can get 8 transports full of things to Kuara this turn, that will do. I cancel all active deals with Sumeria and then note that they still have a Rifle in our territory. Realizing I might be able to get them to remove or declare for WH if I wait a turn and I can also get 5 more transports ready in the meantime, I decide this can wait… one more turn.

IBT:

-More Tanks build, and global warming hits again, turning a forest into a plains

1520 AD (Turn 4):

-Okay, now it’s time to fight Sumeria. I repeatedly demand Flight and Ironclads from them to piss them off (I also, just for the hell of it demand both individually… they continue to reject the demand), then ask them to remove or declare and… they remove. Boooooo! Well fine, if they won’t start the war, I will, and I declare war on them.

-I immediately sign Korea into an MA against Sumeria for… just Gems straight up? Really, that’s all it took?

-I have an elite tank kill the Sumerian Rifle that left our territory and… it gives us a leader! Sweet, one more tank army! (1-0)

-A Destroyer passes by and sinks a Sumerian Submarine (2-0)

-My transports unload 8 tank armies, 5 cav armies, and 13 artillery next to Kuara. Hopefully that will be enough.

IBT:

-Around 10 Sumerian Bombers mostly target Destroyers near their island and other than lightly damaging one of the tank armies leave our landing party alone, but sink 3 destroyers (1-3)

1525 AD (Turn 5):

-Bombard Kuara with 13 artillery and 3 destroyers, scoring 16 straight misses. Damn it. Well, send in the tanks, then. The Tank Armies combine to kill a TOW and 4 Infantry in the city is ours (6-3). We’re up to 65% pop now.

-Cav armies kill 3 Infantry in Kua, take the city (9-3), capture five workers outside

-Sadly the heavily mountainous terrain stops me from making further advances, so I just use the transports to drop a bunch more units in Kuara and hope to push forward next turn.

IBT:

-More Sumerian bombers come, again mainly targeting our ships but not sinking any this time, and a couple of SOD’s show up at Kuara and Kua. A Sumerian sub sinks one of our transports (9-4)

-I forget to check happiness and Seattle, Washington, and Philadelphia are all unhappy and riot. Philadelphia riots so hard it decides to depose us and join Korea. Phoenix, though not rioting, also flips to Korea. Two culture flips in one turn makes me an extremely sad panda.

1530 AD (Turn 6):

@Der: Artillery knock all 6 infantry in the city to 2 or 1 HP, and Cav armies kill all 6 (15-4). We’re at 66%, but I’m not finished yet…

-Kill all the Sumerian units in our territory: 1 Guerilla, 2 Tanks, 1 Cav, 11 Infs, 2 Enkidus, 2 Archers, 2 Pikes, 2 Swords, an LBM, and a Rifle, losing just 1 Tank in the process (40-5)

@Ashkak: Tank armies kill 4 Infs and a TOW, take the city (45-5)

@Kutha: Tank armies kill 3 Infs and take the city, though I lose an outside-the-army Tank doing so (48-6)

-Destroyer sinks the sub that sunk our transport (49-6)

@Bad-tibira: Tank Armies kill an Inf and a TOW, Tanks kill 2 Inf, take the city (53-6)

-An inf on a mountain outside Bad-tibira puts up a hell of a fight, killing one Tank and retreating 2 more before dying (54-7)

-We’re at 68% in both area and pop, that should do it. I have our Cav armies pillage some roads in Sumerian territory to ensure they can’t attack any city except Bad-tibira, and just in case of flips I join all the captured Sumerian workers to some of the cities I captured this turn, and join a bunch of workers back on the mainland into other cities.

IBT:

-Some more bombing runs happen and a few Sumerian units head towards our territory, but no attacks.

-A bunch of cities celebrate We Love the Genghis Khan Day, guess I must have captured another lux and not realized it (I check later and realize it’s because Ashkak had 3 of Sumeria’s Incense sources). We also get the final palace expansion in celebration of our victory.

-Lagash completes the UN, a little too late there (not that anyone would win a vote with Korea and us at war with Sumeria)



And We win! Final tally of 68% land area, 69% population








The attached save is from the last turn, hit enter and the win will be imminent.
 

Attachments

  • MRG Final, 1530 AD.SAV
    369.2 KB · Views: 15
Who would have thought that after the stern uphill struggle in the beginning...?
But once we reached tech parity by pulling a couple of these "disconnect yourself tactics", the game went smoothly.
 
Yeah this is one game where if I was playing solo I would have abandoned due to a horrible start.

Makes me curious to see if we even have aluminum within our startup position. Thank you all for a good game. Wish we had a better start, but hey.
 
Yeah this is one game where if I was playing solo I would have abandoned due to a horrible start.

Makes me curious to see if we even have aluminum within our startup position. Thank you all for a good game. Wish we had a better start, but hey.
If you're curious, you could try playing on a few more turns and research, bet you could get Flight without too much difficulty, then knock Sumeria to 1 city and grab some techs from the peace treaty.

Yeah, I likewise would have abandoned it a while ago, probably some time in the early MA I would have thought "I have absolutely no resources at all, my closest neighbor is the strongest AI and starting to amass a huge pile of gold and a big tech lead, screw this start to hell." If I had a point in a solo game where I had to resort to the some kind of disconnect/reconnect scheme or something else like that that's either explicitly against the HoF rules or just feels like I shouldn't be allowed to do it, I'd rather just give up than feel like I had to borderline cheat to win.

And it's honestly amazing how we kept researching and never found any resources at all in our territory, one Saltpeter source kinda nearby that we briefly claimed before giving it to Korea to pull some tricks, but that was all.
 
Thanks for the game, folks! :cheers:
If I had a point in a solo game where I had to resort to the some kind of disconnect/reconnect scheme or something else like that that's either explicitly against the HoF rules or just feels like I shouldn't be allowed to do it, I'd rather just give up than feel like I had to borderline cheat to win.
I know how you feel, and I agree. The "resource + tech for GPT" trade-exploits felt really cheesy to me as well (and not just because I'm incapable of planning/using them myself... ;) )
Spoiler Ranting :
If I had been programming Civ3, and was 'forced' to use a single (20T) interval for trade-deals, I would have required deals to be either fully per-turn (e.g resources, diplo-agreements) or one-off (e.g. maps, techs), with any price-differences made up only by gold-payments (cost-dependent on trade-rep?). I would also have had trade-rep tracked on a per-opponent-Civ basis, rather than applying universally (if WW can be tracked per opponent, then why not trade-rep?).

Alternatively, I might have allowed any kind of mixed deal to be made, but on a sliding-scale of trustworthiness (but still on a per-Civ basis) — so when 2 Civs first meet, they would only be able to do short deals, say 5 turns maximum. Completing two 5-turn deals in a row might unlock the ability to do 10-turn deals — and two of those completed in a row might unlock the ability to do a 20-turn deal. Under that system, any broken deal (maybe regardless of who broke it?) would knock the maximum possible deal-turns back down by one notch, but only between those 2 Civs — and maybe a broken 5-turn deal would prevent all further trades for a set number of turns, and/or bust both Civs back down to a 5-turn max with everyone else who knows them.

So buying any (fixed-price) hard-goods for per-turn payments would require a payment-offer (at least) 4x higher for a 5-turn as for a 20-turn deal (with the first payment transferred as soon as the deal is signed, so deliberately breaking the deal immediately afterwards would still cost something). That way, breaking a deal would make further trading more expensive (at least initially), but not impossible — and more importantly, an accidentally broken trade-rep could be rehabilitated.

Yet another option might have been to limit all deals a max. of 20 years, i.e. deal-length would be dependent on game-date — so for the first 200 turns or so, "1-turn" deals might be all that could be made.

But almost anything would have been better than the totally unfair/ lazy mechanic Firaxis did choose to go with (i.e. "trade-rep busted forever, with everyone, for a single trangression — which might not even have been your own fault") :rolleyes:

And it's honestly amazing how we kept researching and never found any resources at all in our territory, one Saltpeter source kinda nearby that we briefly claimed before giving it to Korea to pull some tricks, but that was all.
My current solo Mayans game (DG, Random 60%-Archi[?], but the larger islands joined up into an effective Pangaea) has been like that as well: in order of adjacency to my western spawn-point, via the shortest land-route, the nearest Strat-Res locations turned out to be
-- Horses (in India, next door)
-- Rubber (in former India, and former Portugal)
-- Saltpeter (in former Byzantium)
-- Oil (in former Japan)
... with literally all the Iron (and Coal) on the map either way over at the far eastern end (controlled by Persia, France and the Inca) or off on islands that were also closer to my rivals than to me.
Spoiler How that went for me... :
While I managed to secure Horses relatively early on using a Poor Man's Army, Iron was only offered (to me) at comparatively extortionate prices that weren't really worth paying, since no Iron-sources were near enough to me be able to take and hold them before Rails. It therefore took several wars to finish mopping India completely using only Horses, Archers/LBMs and Cats/Trebs, but that territory helped with my teching, and also gained me my first Salt-source, allowing me to build (a few) Muskets, upgrade my Trebs to Cannon, and even upgrade/build a few Cavs.

I learned RepParts and got SciMeth, built ToE, then traded my way to Industrialisation. I was building Factories in my core with Hoovers only a couple of turns away, when the Jerk — having raged across the eastern end of the continent, wiping out everyone except the Inca and France — sneak-attacked and captured or razed most of my newly captured/ settled towns near my Salt (or forced me to hand them off to Pacha — and Dora, who was still hanging on by the skin of her teeth).

It was looking ugly for a while, but I had managed to build a near-complete thin-rail net to a Mountainous/Jungle-y choke-point just short of the Saltpeter before I lost my (also extortionately priced) Coal-import, so my meagre Infs, meagre Arty, and meagre Cavs (and then Horses again!) were able to grind his advance to a halt at that point (I traded with the Inca for Nationalism just to be able to draft cInfs — but if I had not, I would certainly have been overrun).

Now that peace has been signed, that area is being (re)Settled and reinforced, in preparation for our next war — which I know is coming soon, because the Jerk has now almost finished razing the Incan core. But this time around, I'll be fully Industrialised and Hoover-boosted, so I should be able to keep the Cavs, Infs and Arty flowing to the front fast enough to actually gain some ground this time — and with any luck I'll also be able to recruit Joanie to my side, instead of his...

The only real question is what he'll hit me/us with. I am currently researching Combustion, which the Jerk already knows (he and Joan also both know Sanitation and Fascism): haven't seen any Persian Destroyers yet, though, only Frigates (lots!) and Transports (which were likely Galleons in their previous life). But his research has likely been slowed by going Fascist, so he's most likely now researching Flight (if he doesn't have it already) or MassProduction (haven't seen any Battleships yet either) — and it's unlikely that's he's got as far as *gulp* MotorTransport (but even if I do get there first, I will still need to buy Oil to build Tanks...)
But at least I got a Cow, a Deer, and 2 Incense next to my capital...
 
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So I got curious and just forced ended the turns without doing much of anything. Got flight then rocketry.

Our starting position did not have any aluminum. Sumer of course has two on their continent. One aluminum is deep in Korean territory. Another right beside Caesarea and a final one right beside Cacela.

So this map was a big pile of poo when it came to resources.
 
I'm going to guess the same is also true of Uranium.
 
On the other hand: I think it happens quite often in my games that I don't have most of the (strategic) resources in my immediate start area. One lux and one out of horses/iron would be the average start location, and the rest you have to fight for. So we were a bit "below average" here. -- It's just: on Demigod it's much harder to fight for the necessary land than on Regent (where you approach 66% territory anyway by the time things like coal, oil or uranium get discovered)...
 
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