Multipolarity II - Game Thread

MP1 was half about paranoia - which is why I hide the military stats.

Sneak attack ability just makes it even better to stoke that paranoia. :evil:
Sneak attacks are biased toward the attacker, in that it leaves both the defender and any "defending" alliances a turn out of sync for a proper response. It's not just bad form; it's a mechanical exploit. Besides, I really don't think you can argue that it would take two years before the country realizes what's happening.

We've been over this before, and it's why they were disallowed in MPR.

The US did not sign the Rights of the Child while the likes of Iran and Saudi Arabia did.
ROFL PWN3D

Although
The point is, treaties can be broken as soon as when convenient, which can often be before the ink dries.
in this case, 'Mericuh never signed in the first place, so it's not a strong example. :p
 
I'm not saying sneak attacks are bad, but any player who isn't a sack of hammers will have the decency to gather up alliances and friends before going to war (silly Oz, war is for pros). Unfortunately, it appears Oz failed to do so, hence lack of support.

In addition, a sync out of turn is not bad. Even *if* an aggressor attacks during the turn, the next turn the defender and any allies can rush in and stop the aggressor. Easy Peasy.
 
In addition, a sync out of turn is not bad. Even *if* an aggressor attacks during the turn, the next turn the defender and any allies can rush in and stop the aggressor. Easy Peasy.
Assuming Tani manually throttles invasions so we don't get the one-turn zerg rushes that plagued the first game.

Speaking from experience, it's not so straightforward.
 
Make sneak attacks less effective the more units are used. Or you could just make errything half as strong.
 
Honestly when me and sone have rp that includes near-sentient robots and anti-gravity and we're supposed to have space colonization in x turns, plus tge SDI mechanic...

you'd think that some form of early warning system would have to be over-ridden probably through espionage or something for any sneak attack to be successful. This is a matter if consistency instead of realism IMO.
 
Tyo, if that were true, and stats were based on your race and bio, I'd have chosen giant lizard-robots who are telepathic and invisible, and who can also fly through deep space and shoot lasers from their tails, and they can turn ordinary rocks into nuclear rocks, which explode in nuclear fire, and they can also make suns supernova but focus the en3rgy at one point which makes a huge blast that insta-kills everything except plant life and rocks, allowing my lizards who can reproduce faster than a cross bred rabbit-prostitute giving instant 100,000 population in a province.

Also they have nukes and space technologies unlocked at turn 1.
 
if you strongly consider RP, I would be fcking dead!
 
Tyo, if that were true, and stats were based on your race and bio, I'd have chosen giant lizard-robots who are telepathic and invisible, and who can also fly through deep space and shoot lasers from their tails, and they can turn ordinary rocks into nuclear rocks, which explode in nuclear fire, and they can also make suns supernova but focus the en3rgy at one point which makes a huge blast that insta-kills everything except plant life and rocks, allowing my lizards who can reproduce faster than a cross bred rabbit-prostitute giving instant 100,000 population in a province.

Also they have nukes and space technologies unlocked at turn 1.

So Charizard?
 
you'd think that some form of early warning system would have to be over-ridden probably through espionage or something for any sneak attack to be successful. This is a matter if consistency instead of realism IMO.

The agents, true to their MP function, are already a form of MAD. They auto-override your early warning systems prior to the assault.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :p

Now, as to why they're so horrid in doing everything else...

Besides, I really don't think you can argue that it would take two years before the country realizes what's happening.

What if the invasion happened in the last days of the year then carried over into the beginning of the next?

While there's no consistent time scale, I think of time as continuing to flow within that two year period between updates.

in this case, 'Mericuh never signed in the first place, so it's not a strong example.

Ah, but that was put here not to say treaties aren't honored. It was to further show just how worthless they are when put up against one's actions. :p

Which means the Formati could sign the pact and break it in just one turn. As has happened between IOT nations before.

Assuming Tani manually throttles invasions so we don't get the one-turn zerg rushes that plagued the first game.

Speaking from experience, it's not so straightforward.

You do need one army to occupy each province. You also need to win at least one battle per each province to wipe someone out.

Jehoshua wanted realism to apply so that Oz's forces being southward would allow him to take ALL of Oz without a fight. Fortunately, I shot that down as well. :p
 
Tyo, if that were true, and stats were based on your race and bio, I'd have chosen giant lizard-robots who are telepathic and invisible, and who can also fly through deep space and shoot lasers from their tails, and they can turn ordinary rocks into nuclear rocks, which explode in nuclear fire, and they can also make suns supernova but focus the en3rgy at one point which makes a huge blast that insta-kills everything except plant life and rocks, allowing my lizards who can reproduce faster than a cross bred rabbit-prostitute giving instant 100,000 population in a province.

Also they have nukes and space technologies unlocked at turn 1.

That doesn't make sense in scale at all. Given the year, the technologies me and sone rp are feasible. Also, that was literally 10% of my arguement. This game has WMD, a stock market, SDI, and is planned to use space colonization in the near future. It only makes sense that civilizations of this time with these available advancements have some kind of early detection system.
 
Or there might be some sort of advanced technological jamming system that has yet to be overcome. Orobouros' legacy lasts even to this day! Or something.

Speaking of which need to write some more RP to entertain myself, see ya!
 
So there's an advanced jamming system that every player has and nobody can attempt to overcome it. That makes sense. :p
 
What if the invasion happened in the last days of the year then carried over into the beginning of the next?

While there's no consistent time scale, I think of time as continuing to flow within that two year period between updates.
So, I'm saying there's a mechanical fault, and you're excusing it with semantics?

It only makes sense that civilizations of this time with these available advancements have some kind of early detection system.
It doesn't even have to be that technical: my problem is, a sneak attack is the sort of advantage that only lasts for a few days at most; it shouldn't be able to deny timely retaliatory action by other players. Red telephone, anyone?


Even if Tani doesn't fix this, I will forewarn players that wanton sneak-attacks do not sit well with NPCs.
 
Your WMD arsenal can be programmed to respond quickly. So, it's good to get ahold of one of those for deterrence purposes. A sneak attack will quickly lose momentum however, between defender bonuses and the fact an occupier needs one army AND one victory for each province.

As a further advantage for the defender, armies recruited don't become active until the following turn. So, it all adds up that the defender has plenty going for them.

A 50-province country being sneak attacked by a 10-army invader only has to worry at most about 10 provinces lost, even if they only had one army. On top of that, the defender always has a 1/5 chance of winning. And, they will have forewarning that the attacker's army is building up as time goes on, and should in turn prepare their own deterrents - their own army, a WMD arsenal, or a coalition of possible allies.

====

I was bored, so. Since Yoshiegg never really touched upon Demonkind:

An Analysis of the Post-Orobourite Race

Circa 2100, a serious anomoly in the world's genetic codes had finally culminated in the birth of a seemingly otherworldly race, colloquially referred to as "Demons," even by themselves. The title went a great way to inspire fear (and hate), but as a technologically-strong nation, the Demons did not mind such isolation. It meant they could focus on building better and more efficient technology.

The term "Demon" became a catch-all for anyone of origin from the realm, even humans. Those who were ethnically Demon, however, were the real targets of such a term. The term was not entirely unfair; those of the race possessed superhuman abilities, and often lacked a human appearance. Furthermore, there were many supremacists amongst the ranks of Demonkind, eager to expand territory, though infighting often prevented much success in this regard. Humanoid, furry or just bizarre, the Demons have historically served under a variety of leaders - Laharl, Iblis, Orobouros, Demise, Naraku, to name a few.

Later in the century, tumultous leadership resulted, with their humanoid Demon King being replaced by one of his Demon Lords, the fiery, infernal creature who called himself "Iblis." This sociopathic monster led the realm for several years, steadily enlarging the state's WMD arsenal, ignoring fission and fusion in favor of chemical weaponry. This fed the Demon Lord's own personal sadism as much as his own disdain for nuclear weapons. It would not be until later when the reasoning behind this disdain became apparent.

At some point or another, Iblis fell. In a bizarre show of demonic qualities, his mind seemed to be completely altered, nuclear energies (based on records) having brought out a kind, pacifistic side. All the chemicals that had been so steadily built up were used for peaceful purposes, and the damaged records show that he apparently found a way to refine the "Chaos energy" of his people, the backbone of much Demon power, into something far greater. It seemed the Demon Lord himself was made of this energy, as a degraded video of the time shows him drawing it from his arm as if it was his blood.

While the data is sketchy, it is not unreasonable to assume the "Chaos fusion" energy, virtually limitless, able to match if not outpace nuclear fusion, was a dominant power source for the better part of two centuries. The legacy of this energy's abilities are still felt in the large airships that nations now sport, enabling nations to swiftly rearm and repurpose their armed forces at minimal cost. The procedure to refine the energy seems to have been lost, but who is to say a second Orobouros shall not one day rediscover the lost art?

Since that time, the Demon Realm has fallen and faded away for some reason or another. A large diaspora has spread across the world, primarily in East Asia but across much of the world regardless. Many Demons now consider themselves nationals of their new homes rather than of the lost Kingdom, though there have been violent ethnic nationalism attempts in some countries based on records. The "Demons" have spread far and wide, going by many names, dividing into many categories, but their great talents have made them subjects of constant research and employment in scientific and security fields.

Various other terms used to describe them: Orobourites, Orobi, Kaetif, Oni, Yokai
 
Mandatum is clear: the demons are welcomed among the myst of Mandatum so we can experiment on them so that we can commence operations at a newer standard. Join us and the world will be for the generation of peace as oppose to the ways of war.

We are Mandatum. We are order.
 
50-province country being sneak attacked by a 10-army invader only has to worry at most about 10 provinces lost, even if they only had one army. On top of that, the defender always has a 1/5 chance of winning.

... Doesn't that work both ways and the defender will then probably lose 10 more territories?

What's so bad as to making sneak attacks require a certain espiongage mission or something anyway?
 
This isn't based on realism, hence 2 Stalins :)

That's a stupid argument. Just because the geopolitical setting of a game doesn't have two feet in reality doesn't mean basic ideas aren't in. There has been no sneak attack in the history of human civilization on the scale of the completely overwhelming sneak attack performed by Oz on the part of an economy and military not even mobilized for war.

And that is what it comes down to. This isn't just an early-warning hax gone right. This is a gross violation of common sense and non-existent intelligence across the board. Where does one hide tens of thousands of troops before an attack? How does a nation bring up hundreds, if not thousands, of tons of supplies to the front in complete secrecy? Anybody just looking at the railways would be able to tell that the Oz economy has suddenly shifted to a complete war footing.

Somehow, we're supposed to not just believe, but accept that 0-to-60 troop and economic mobilization would go unnoticed. This is like if Japan launched a sneak invasion of Hawaii without anyone being aware it was coming.

Sneak attacks don't happen like that. Even a Pearl Harbor-styled attack would be near impossible against a modern conventional force in 2000, let alone 3010.

For the love of Christ and Science, satellites have existed for over a thousand years. You have drones and satellites today that can detect in high-resolution any form of conventional military build-up.
 
For some reason you guys seem to think being unrealistic is the same thing as being inconsistent.

Dwarf Fortress has dragons, hippie elves, and magma-powered furnaces, but it also has the most detailed map of a person, animal, or misc. creature's bloodsteams of any game ever created, weapons which behave exactly like they do in reality, and actual physics. The latter is realism. The former is consistency.
 
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