Multipolarity IV Game Thread

[Tani Coyote]

==Scandinavian War==


Link to video.

111,000 Icelandics guard the last of Norway, their backs to the sea. With the destruction of the Icelandic navy, no help is coming; they stand alone against a massive horde.

343,000 Swedes, 100,000 Finns, 10,000 Poles, and 75,000 Kirovites close in from the east.

Results:

-90,000 Icelandics killed
-21,000 Icelandics captured
-8,000 Swedes killed
-4,000 Kirovites killed
-Last of Norway falls
-678,000 Norwegians pass under Swedish occupation
-6,000 Norwegian civilians die in the fighting

 

[Mosher]

==Scandinavian War==


Link to video.

111,000 Icelandics guard the last of Norway, their backs to the sea. With the destruction of the Icelandic navy, no help is coming; they stand alone against a massive horde.

343,000 Swedes, 100,000 Finns, 10,000 Poles, and 75,000 Kirovites close in from the east.

Results:

-90,000 Icelandics killed
-21,000 Icelandics captured
-8,000 Swedes killed
-4,000 Kirovites killed
-Last of Norway falls
-678,000 Norwegians pass under Swedish occupation
-6,000 Norwegian civilians die in the fighting

How do casualties even work?

Even outnumbered like that, my troops are fighting defensively and have better army tech (you said so on chat) yet fighting on the defense managed to take almost 9:1 casualties.

 

[Tani Coyote]

==First Battle of Chicagoland==

An area known as the “Syndicalist Core” has formed – the Syndicates have seen their weakness and relocated much of their industry further inland, forming a more concentrated military and industrial base. Burning practically everything in their wake and blowing up what would not torch easily, it is very difficult to push into most of the countryside now, making a blitz that much harder.

600,000 Confederates move north. 3 provinces taken without a fight; 150,000 advance on Illinois.
400,000 New Americans move westward. 4 provinces taken without a fight; 200,000 advance on the Syndicalist core.

200,000 men protect the new Syndicalist core. The Syndicates have built their defense along river banks, making it extremely difficult to get into the country except for a few well-guarded chokepoints. Regardless the Horde charges.

Result:

-37,000 Syndicalists killed
-35,000 Confederates killed
-46,000 Americans killed
-5,000 Confederates captured
-5,000 Americans captured
-Offensive repulsed; core remains strong.

 

[Tani Coyote]

==Battle of Quebec==

20,000 Syndicalists defend Quebec. However, they dissolve in the face of a joint New American-Icelandic invasion force. It seems as if they are running in fear, but in the coming months, as 2,000 New American troops are killed, it becomes obvious they have instead melded with the population. The “Canad Cong” are liable to become a thorn in the side of those occupying the area. Regardless, the Canadian provinces are taken and repatriated to Iceland-Norway

Results:

-2,000 New American soldiers killed
-5,000 civilians killed
-3 provinces returned to Norway

==Battle of New England==

Another slave riot occurs, the molemen clearly becoming more agitated by the day. With the bulk of the army on the frontier, the slaves take much longer to rein in, and before the 3,000 slaves are terminated, they kill no less than 10,000 people across the country. They also detonate explosives on several railways, hardly crippling the economy but causing some damage regardless. It is clear they are being backed by an outside source.

150,000 Syndicalist soldiers and 10,000 Aragonese troops amass in New Brunswick, having been taken from the victorious European front. There would have been several tens of thousands more, but the Americans have closed the sea lanes and only some of their invasion force were able to make landfall; they will have to wait. Regardless the mission must continue. Their mission: to swarm the New English homeland while the main force of their army is busy westward.

They come up against 500K and bravely charge. Many lose limbs if not their lives going through the ten-mile mine field that has been erected across the northern border.

Results:

Against all odds, the superior tactics and training of the Syndicalist force allows them to not only defeat the New Americans, but push into Maine.

-41,000 New American troops killed
-110,000 Syndicalists killed
-10,000 Aragonese killed
-Maine occupied; 2,000,000 New Americans put under Syndicalist rule
-100,000 New American civilians die as a result of the fierce combat ripping across the state; many are also killed trying to flee deeper into the country due to the sluggish advance
-10,000 molemen liberated

 

[arya126]

I must repeat Mosher's query: How do casualties work? Because this is just unrealistic. Fighting in the mountains of Norway in a solid defensive posture and Iceland's men get annihilated? Fighting across a HEAVILY fortified border in the face of being outnumbered AT LEAST 2:1 and there is barely a 2:1 casualty rate between me and Chicago? I understand my army tech might not be their equal, but thats simply not a reasonable reason for the lopsided casualties.

 

[Tani Coyote]

Casualties are determined by the projected victory rate (that is, the chance of each side winning each particular "part" of a battle), and the actual victory rate (that is, how many times each side won one of those "parts"). High projected victory + high actual victory = massive casualties. Casualties are also dependent on how many troops are sent in; the more troops, the more damage even a completely unskilled army is capable of doing. Hence why Maine was lost, but the bulk of the Syndicalist force was killed or injured.

As for war plans' role: I don't generally count exactly what goes on in them, so much as effort put into them. If I counted every single move separately in plans that easily run into the paragraphs/pages in length we'd be here all day!

 

[Mosher]

Casualties are determined by the projected victory rate (that is, the chance of each side winning each particular "part" of a battle), and the actual victory rate (that is, how many times each side won one of those "parts"). High projected victory + high actual victory = massive casualties. Casualties are also dependent on how many troops are sent in; the more troops, the more damage even a completely unskilled army is capable of doing. Hence why Maine was lost, but the bulk of the Syndicalist force was killed or injured.

That's a pretty stupid way of calculating casualties. It makes a last stand impossible - an army that's defending an easily defendable area in rough terrain (like Norwegian mountains) where the goal is not to win but inflict the maximum number of casualties on the attacker.


See: Battle of Berlin

 

[Tani Coyote]

If I factored in terrain it adds a whole new layer of complexity I'm not really particularly giddy at the prospect of.

Numbers + quality + war plans + early warning system. The four factors that determine outcome.

With regards to terrain, there are two types: land, and water. That's as far as I factor them in.

Moral of the story is... don't go to war.

 

[arya126]

So it makes sense that Chicago was able to cross a ten mile field of death and defeat 5 times their number in men? That Sweden and co. was able to storm the mountains of Norway with a tenth as many casualties as the defender? That defies the logic of warfare.

 

[KaiserElectric]

I like how you're implying that warfare is logical.

 

[arya126]

I like how you're implying that warfare is logical.

It is.

 

[Mosher]

If I factored in terrain it adds a whole new layer of complexity I'm not really particularly giddy at the prospect of.

Numbers + quality + war plans + early warning system. The four factors that determine outcome.

With regards to terrain, there are two types: land, and water. That's as far as I factor them in.

Moral of the story is... don't go to war.

War should be an unattractive option because of economic consequences, not because the combat system is completely broken.

 

[Mathalamus]

im fine with how the war works. for example, if i went to war with Antioch and i had 800,000 troops, versus a force around 8 times smaller, i would still expect a difficult time.

 

[Mosher]

im fine with how the war works. for example, if i went to war with Antioch and i had 800,000 troops, versus a force around 8 times smaller, i would still expect a difficult time.

Except when that happened in Norway, they (the attacker) had an easy time of it and I took 9:1 casualties despite having better army tech and being on the defense.

This combat system gimps the defense, since the only way to inflict heavy casualties is to have an equal or greater force to them, despite the fact that a smaller number of defenders doesn't mean the enemy is just going to walk all over them.

 

[Tani Coyote]

The solution of course is to maintain a large army that is also well-trained, as it guarantees one's odds and one's actual results are more or less both positive, which ensure casualties are pretty positive as well.

War was ultimately designed to be used as a major-versus-minor thing above all else.

As for "last stands," well... the war itself -is- the last stand.

Coming news:

-Anti-Azeri riots in Africa
-Lots of riots in South America
-Al-Qaeda coup in Egypt is a failboat at full mast
-Hummel to be dissolved as Omega has given me his resignation

 

[NinjaCow64]

SPARTACUS JOINS SYNDICATE COALITION

Spartacus Declares that the Axis of Slavery will Burn​

New America, Iceland-Norway and the Confederate States of America have committed the most unforgivable sin, the enslavement of a fellow man. Spartacus will join the Syndicate Coalition, run a knife through their flags and fly these new flags of freedom above every city that has been liberated.

Iceland-Norway are one of the most vile and repugnant nations on the Earth. They were the masterminds behind the Amistad Charter, which founded this new era of international slave trade. They invaded Sweden, a nation that they have had close without provokation. The world will celebrate when the slavers of Iceland and Norway are crushed under the weight of revolution.

New America is a racist nation that demands human supremacy and enslaves all non-humans, most notably the Molemen, who were enslaved after an assassination attempted against their leader was "foiled" and the Molemen were blamed. Many of us believe that this "assassination attempt" did not happen and this was simply justification for their racist policies. Slavery is unjustifiable, those who justify it will be destroyed.

Although the Confederate States of America do not have slaves, unlike the last nation to take that name, we cannot stand by as they help two of the largest slavers in the history destroy a nation who has decided to stand against Iceland-Norway's incredible aggression. We warn the Confederates if they do not stand down and withdraw from the Combined Syndicates of America then they will join the slavers in their unmarked graves.

To the Syndicate Coalition and their peoples, we beg you not to surrender or to give up hope. The enemy cannot fight for much longer, Iceland-Norway is close to collapsing, New America is occupied and the Confederates cannot hope to win. Soon you will be victorious. Do not listen to the lies of your enemies, if you surrender your will be killed, your women will be raped and your children will be put into chains.

We will never surrender to the imperialist forces of slavery. We will free every slave. We will kill every slaver.

For we are Spartacus.

 

[Mosher]

SPARTACUS JOINS SYNDICATE COALITION

Spartacus Declares that the Axis of Slavery will Burn​

New America, Iceland-Norway and the Confederate States of America have committed the most unforgivable sin, the enslavement of a fellow man. Spartacus will join the Syndicate Coalition, run a knife through their flags and fly these new flags of freedom above every city that has been liberated.

Iceland-Norway are one of the most vile and repugnant nations on the Earth. They were the masterminds behind the Amistad Charter, which founded this new era of international slave trade. They invaded Sweden, a nation that they have had close without provokation. The world will celebrate when the slavers of Iceland and Norway are crushed under the weight of revolution.

New America is a racist nation that demands human supremacy and enslaves all non-humans, most notably the Molemen, who were enslaved after an assassination attempted against their leader was "foiled" and the Molemen were blamed. Many of us believe that this "assassination attempt" did not happen and this was simply justification for their racist policies. Slavery is unjustifiable, those who justify it will be destroyed.

Although the Confederate States of America do not have slaves, unlike the last nation to take that name, we cannot stand by as they help two of the largest slavers in the history destroy a nation who has decided to stand against Iceland-Norway's incredible aggression. We warn the Confederates if they do not stand down and withdraw from the Combined Syndicates of America then they will join the slavers in their unmarked graves.

To the Syndicate Coalition and their peoples, we beg you not to surrender or to give up hope. The enemy cannot fight for much longer, Iceland-Norway is close to collapsing, New America is occupied and the Confederates cannot hope to win. Soon you will be victorious. Do not listen to the lies of your enemies, if you surrender your will be killed, your women will be raped and your children will be put into chains.

We will never surrender to the imperialist forces of slavery. We will free every slave. We will kill every slaver.

For we are Spartacus.

Well I was going to liberate most of my slaves this turn but now that you're raising a stink about it

The solution of course is to maintain a large army that is also well-trained, as it guarantees one's odds and one's actual results are more or less both positive, which ensure casualties are pretty positive as well.

War was ultimately designed to be used as a major-versus-minor thing above all else.

Except my army is large and well trained. My army had better army quality than the attacking forces.

War should be designed to work in, if not every, most situations and be able to cover more than one type of war; making war designed for minor v. major just means the entire game is going to be painful when a major v. major war inevitably breaks out.

 

[Kinich-Ahau]

making war designed for minor v. major just means the entire game is going to be painful when a major v. major war inevitably breaks out.

That's the point; I'm fairly certain TFox doesn't want any major vs. major wars.

 

[Mosher]

That's the point; I'm fairly certain TFox doesn't want any major vs. major wars.

They shouldn't be prevented by making the mechanics involved in them bad; they should be prevented by economic and social consequences that come as a result of large scale warfare.

Plus, this makes minor v. major wars stupid as well, since it makes it hard for a minor nation to fight a war of attrition (as they'll always be taking much heavier casualties, since they have a lower victory chance).

 

[arya126]

SPARTACUS JOINS SYNDICATE COALITION

Spartacus Declares that the Axis of Slavery will Burn​

New America, Iceland-Norway and the Confederate States of America have committed the most unforgivable sin, the enslavement of a fellow man. Spartacus will join the Syndicate Coalition, run a knife through their flags and fly these new flags of freedom above every city that has been liberated.

Iceland-Norway are one of the most vile and repugnant nations on the Earth. They were the masterminds behind the Amistad Charter, which founded this new era of international slave trade. They invaded Sweden, a nation that they have had close without provokation. The world will celebrate when the slavers of Iceland and Norway are crushed under the weight of revolution.

New America is a racist nation that demands human supremacy and enslaves all non-humans, most notably the Molemen, who were enslaved after an assassination attempted against their leader was "foiled" and the Molemen were blamed. Many of us believe that this "assassination attempt" did not happen and this was simply justification for their racist policies. Slavery is unjustifiable, those who justify it will be destroyed.

Although the Confederate States of America do not have slaves, unlike the last nation to take that name, we cannot stand by as they help two of the largest slavers in the history destroy a nation who has decided to stand against Iceland-Norway's incredible aggression. We warn the Confederates if they do not stand down and withdraw from the Combined Syndicates of America then they will join the slavers in their unmarked graves.

To the Syndicate Coalition and their peoples, we beg you not to surrender or to give up hope. The enemy cannot fight for much longer, Iceland-Norway is close to collapsing, New America is occupied and the Confederates cannot hope to win. Soon you will be victorious. Do not listen to the lies of your enemies, if you surrender your will be killed, your women will be raped and your children will be put into chains.

We will never surrender to the imperialist forces of slavery. We will free every slave. We will kill every slaver.

For we are Spartacus.

I highly suggest you reconsider, since your beliefs and actions are based on faulty principles and notions. We do not enslave or even oppress all aliens; only those who actively conspire to overthrow our government and kill our president and whose genetics are so different from Humans that they hold no place on this earth. The Mole Men are one of those. This is none of your business as this is the will of our people and our nation, and that is OURS to decide. However for example, Wookies, Elves, and others are among those who are accepted as equals in our society with humans.

But it is not up to you to dictate our culture, how our society works and functions, or the policies of our government.