Muslim hypocrisy?

[Gelion]

Agreed, else I wouldn't have been able to live in different cultures in the first place. But there is a limit and it has to be a two-sided way. This means tolerance, a pretty important word and value to me. Unfortunately, religion is too often used to kill tolerance and impose ideas on others, not just Islam, any sort of religion in one way or another (maybe bhuddism seems to be a positive exception in this respect)

Totally agreed

 

[ThERat]

I've never studied that, but if it is ture:

the sad thing about the tsunami desaster is, that while it was killing a lot of innocent people there wasn't an outcry in, for example Palastine that rich countries like Saudi Arabia didn't give money at first. That doesn't bother them. However cartoons that killed nobody yet, they protest like madmen

 

[Lotus49]

Generalization? I think so.... Judgement? Hell yeah. If you were talking about Arabs (which I think you were) then this thread is about Muslims.

So where are you from? From your other posts I see you as American. Am I wrong?

The original post is incorrect, in that it targets 'Muslims' as being the culprits. It's not that, my friend. The 'problem' that we are discussing here is actually rooted in the mere fact the ARAB culture (undeniably) tends to be violent-minded, more often than not, when compared to other cultures. Bottom line is, they're still in many ways thinking along the exact same lines they did many centuries ago. They're not in the 20th century (much less 21st), more like 12th. That's my point. And if you don't acknowledge that for what it is, then I don't know what to tell you. Go meet some Arabs (preferrably some mature, intelligent ones), and talk to THEM, about their own culture, and they'll tell you the same thing.

Or, you could GO to the Middle East, and SEE how they live... and you'll understand how they can still be in a Middle Ages mindset - because for most of them, life hasn't changed all that much since then. People living like nomads, setting up huts in the middle of a road to live in, etc.

 

[Gelion]

The original post is incorrect....

Thats good news.... and yeah things work differently in the ME. So different things are expected of them, right?

You still didn't say where you are from.

ThERat: I've got nothing new to say there. Yes they care more about thier religion at least on the politics level....

 

[Jawz II]

That just seems to be the whole point here.
I do not know about Winner but I do clearly remember the huge mass protests in Europe about the war in Iraq (was myself in the 1Mio+ crowd in London).
I do remember a very voluble outrage and disgust in the Western world about Abu Graib.
And I know also of loads of Westerners who loudly and often condemm Israels policy against the Palestinians.
See?

I do not at all believe that Winner is trying to convince anyone that all Muslims are terrorists or bad per se.
He just seems to think that they should not only critize the shortcomimgs of the West (of which there are many) but also see their own shortcomings. It's a thing of balance. If that balance is not there then it can be called hypocricy.

i remember seeing lots of muslim demonstrating against the 9/11. what i think winner is saying is that there werent enough people protesting against it.

you protested? good for you. obviously not enough englishmen did protest, or the english government would have never joined bush in his attack on iraq, see?

so you really think he is trying to say everyone is hypocrite? i couldve told you that, you dont need a thread to know that.

but i didnt see him say anything about western hypocracy at all.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Killing/brutal violence is a part of their culture and history, my friends. Every Arab man is armed with a dagger, supposedly. That's just the way they operate. Now, they have oil money, and put on an expensive suit, and things are automatically different? No.

and it is obvious that bigotry and ignorance is part of yours, and dressing like a clown won't make you look any smarter. And for your information, there are more guns in Alabama than in all the ME.

 

[HannibalBarka]

It's not that, my friend. The 'problem' that we are discussing here is actually rooted in the mere fact the ARAB culture (undeniably) tends to be violent-minded, more often than not, when compared to other cultures.

you are absolutly right, Arabs are the one responsible for all genocides of the 20th century, think about it:

* they were the one who caused the death of 20 millions in WW1, not the Europeans
* they were the one who caused the death of xx millions in WW2, not the Europeans
* they were the one who sent 6 millions jews to gaz chambers, not the Europeans
* they were the one who caused the death of 2 millions cambodians, not the Khmers
* they were the one who sent people to the gulags, not the Russians
* they were the one who caused the death of millions of asians in WW2 not the Japenese
* they were the one who caused the genocode in Rwanda not the Hutus
* they were the one who bombed Vietnam for years
etc etc etc

I ma even wondering if LH Oswald wasn't an arab disguised like a north american

Hey, get out from your cave and read some books, we're not in the 12th century BC

 

[HannibalBarka]

the sad thing about the tsunami desaster is, that while it was killing a lot of innocent people there wasn't an outcry in, for example Palastine that rich countries like Saudi Arabia didn't give money at first. That doesn't bother them. However cartoons that killed nobody yet, they protest like madmen

what the hell is that again? why should the Palestinian protest if the Saudi don't give money????????????????????????????
When was the last time you've seen the french protesting because the German government did not give enough money to humanitarian organization or vice versa?

 

[Marla_Singer]

I think that confrontation between angry westerners and angry muslims illustrates perfectly the stupidity of mankind. Obviously, all this crap becomes some kind of provocations contest.

I'm sorry but I won't join that silly party. Come on ! We are talking about drawings and as an "ugly" retaliation people walking on flags ! And this pisses off everybody !! Don't you realize how silly is all this ? Come on !

 

[Marla_Singer]

Bout time some people woke up... funny when it starts happening in your backyard huh? Welcome to the post 9/11 world.

Winner has always been as much islamophobic as you are. Don't pretend anything has changed.

 

[Hitro]

I think that confrontation between angry westerners and angry muslims illustrates perfectly the stupidity of mankind. Obviously, all this crap becomes some kind of provocations contest.

I'm sorry but I won't join that silly party. Come on ! We are talking about drawings and as an "ugly" retaliation people walking on flags ! And this pisses off everybody !! Don't you realize how silly is all this ? Come on !

Err, we are talking about burning embassies and cultural centers as well as abducted people...

 

[Marla_Singer]

Err, we are talking about burning embassies and cultural centers as well as abducted people...

Yes indeed... and we are also talking about stupid idiots who are publishing Muhammad cartoons in millions of versions simply because they've realized it was pissing off muslim people.

The most funny thing in all that provocations crap is that as much in the Western side than in the Muslim side, all this is made in the name of tolerance.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Err, we are talking about burning embassies and cultural centers as well as abducted people...

wich is a shame for those who are doing it Hitro. Problem is some CFC members are now using this to promote their anti-muslim anti-arab propaganda

 

[Hitro]

Yes indeed... and we are also talking about stupid idiots who are publishing Muhammad cartoons in millions of versions simply because they've realize it was pissing off muslim people.

The most funny thing in all that provocations crap is that as much in the Western side than in the Muslim side, all this is made in the name of tolerance.

I fully disagree. I'm totally fed up with people here in Europe taking the pc "two sides to the story" road. Publishing anything like that is not at all the same as physically attacking something or someone.

These are our values. Freedom of speech is about being able to say what you want even if the majority doesn't like it!.

Fine, it might have been a provocation, but noone forced them to take it, noone forced them to read the paper and noone forced them to feel offended.
The same can hardly be said about those embassies or that guy they abducted in the West Bank.

And I'll repeat my argument from the other thread. Could you people who are soooo balanced because you see satire and arson attacks as one and the same thing please consider how much these people offend people like me every damn day of the year through the degradation of women, the racism and the fascism they propone?

Could you also consider that when it is so obvious that they have to react like that when someone dares to be blasphemic against their religion and if, as it is always said, terrorism is so much against the core of Islam, why there isn't comparable outrage over every terrorist attack committed in the name of the prophet? Attacks that kill people, not just draw a picture...

If you consider that the only conclusion is that they are hypocrites. The truth is not always somewhere in the middle...

 

[Hitro]

wich is a shame for those who are doing it Hitro. Problem is some CFC members are now using this to promote their anti-muslim anti-arab propaganda

That sucks but why care about those who've always been racists and will always be no matter what. They are sad but predictable.

What really annoys me are people who while rightfully despising those people in a move of reverse racism justify the actions of the Muslim bigots. To me both groups are pretty much alike.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Hitro, I'm sorry but I see no wisdom in this story. Don't count on me to join the "us vs them" povocations fiesta.

 

[Hitro]

Hitro, I'm sorry but I see no wisdom in this story. Don't count on me to join the povocations "us vs them" fiesta.

So you say we should all follow the rules of popular religions?

Or else we deserve to get attacked in any way possible?

 

[Marla_Singer]

So you say we should all follow the rules of popular religions?

Or else we deserve to get attacked in any way possible?

No, I simply say that we should ignore all those Middle East provocations and continue the way we did before. I couldn't care less about Middle East protestors.

 

[Taliesin]

Are you saying European countries should ignore it when gun-toting mobs raze their embassies?

 

[Hitro]

I see your point when it comes to flag burning and all that, as being offended about that is just as stupid as being offended over satire, but when it comes to violent attacks on people and property, especially the former, I see that quite differently.

And just looking away when angry hordes of Fascists roam the streets leaves me somewhat uneasy anyway...