Muslim hypocrisy?

[willemvanoranje]

yeah, but to be able to bow, you have to be alive. do you know what christian crusaders did to the muslims, in the lands that they conquered?

besides, how is that where were going? its christians conquering muslim lands now, im sure youve heard of afghanistan and iraq.

Well, you know what the Turks did to the Armenians? It's all history and all irrelevant at this point of time...

And it's no christians attacking muslim countries.. it's America attacking Iraq. It's not a religious war.

Fine then you should be prepared that people come to your part of the world because its nicer here, practice their faith here and retain their customs (the melting pot of cultures? be prepared to melt yourself)

No no no.. if I go live in Egypt, I will have to act like an Egyptian on the streets and in public life. I can be whoever I want in my own house, but when I'm in the other country, I should adapt. So all those imigrants that come to western countries should adapt to our culture. Of course they can keep their religion, go to mosks and do the ramadan, but they also should learn the language, pay taxes, etc. Nothing too much to ask I think? And you know what? Most immigrants do exactly this!

When in Rome, do like the Romans do.

How arogant one has to be to provoke the whole Muslim world into rage after publishing the pcitures. Was the reaction violent and as you say barbaric. In many cases yes, but what did you expect?!!!!

Exactly that I think...

On topic: Has anyone ever considered that other parts of the world don't operate by the same standarts?

The best part of your post. Who the hell are we to force our ideas upon other cultures? Isn't that against the basics of our ideas anyway? Why should we force democracy on Afghanistan and Iraq? They'll get it themselves one day if they're ready!

 

[la cosa nostra]

What if you stop the immigration, but because you are seen as an evil racist a loony leftist will put in bomb in your office and kill 200 britons?
Or if you quell immigration, but 10000 would be immigrants starve in their country? Or that 5000 pakistani women who could have live peacefully in England are burnt alive by jealous husbands in some tribal areas in Pakistan?
How many pakistani immigrants is there in UK? How many took part in the subway bombing?
Are you ready to sacrifice the 932,000 Pakistani and Bangladeshis living in UK because of the deeds of a few dozens to save 100 Britons?

Are you ready to sacrifice your freedom to move where you want to protect the freedom of speech?

The answer is not to quell imigration. The answer is to make the imigrant willing to adopt are values.
And your atitude and others will not help at all. Because when I read you, I'm not intinced at all to adopt your values. Why should muslims be?

Well they cant seem to do it, enticement or not, Pakistani wives are abused in Europe just like in Pakistan anyway.

Firstly the left are p*ssies who curl up into a ball and cry rather than stand up for themselves, that bombing, just not gonna happen mate.

I would have hoped the recent events in your country would change France's mindset, ovbviously that was asking too much. When police officers stand by while a dozen muslim thugs rape a girl 40 meters away, that sir is when your country has failed itself.

Theres no point rescuing people from Pakistan if their whole purpose is to spit in your face and make a new Pakistan out of your country. We should not be asking "is this muslim/pakistani/arab" etc. but rather "is this a European?" ... the resounding answer is "no" ... and why should Pakistanis be living in Europe? Pakistanis should live in Pakistan.

And as much as you would like to pretend otherwise, I am a tolerant person, just not to the extent where im so tolerant that I tolerate intolerance out of political correctness, or sacrafice the lives of 100 people in the name of muslim immigrants. This is how far its gone into your head.

I hope the right wing gets elected in your country, you may not like it, but it will be for your benefit.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Gelion]

No no no.. if I go live in Egypt, I will have to act like an Egyptian on the streets and in public life. I can be whoever I want in my own house, but when I'm in the other country, I should adapt. So all those imigrants that come to western countries should adapt to our culture. Of course they can keep their religion, go to mosks and do the ramadan, but they also should learn the language, pay taxes, etc. Nothing too much to ask I think? And you know what? Most immigrants do exactly this!

When in Rome, do like the Romans do.

Yes you are right, but sadly Egypt does not stand for "universalization of values" and "freedom of everything" as strongly as most West does... learning the culture of a country where you live is a must, but becoming part of is is voluntary.

 

[Winner]

Some Westerners seem to suffer from a particular form of masochism. They spit someone in the face and when they are punched back they swear and blame the other side (call other person names).

IMO its the same in this so called Muslim vs. Western struggle.
You stand for free speech, free travel and freedom of faith?
Fine then you should be prepared that people come to your part of the world because its nicer here, practice their faith here and retain their customs (the melting pot of cultures? be prepared to melt yourself)

How arogant one has to be to provoke the whole Muslim world into rage after publishing the pcitures. Was the reaction violent and as you say barbaric. In many cases yes, but what did you expect?!!!!

It is a globalized world and news spread globably. There is an old saying "don't go to another church with your Testament". I think you know what it means. The world got smaller and everything you do in your country affects the other countries maybe 1000's of kilometers away. If Danes wanted to show how free their press was they had to consider that they will hurt many millions of other people by doing so. It is a globalized world and if you want it to become something better you should consider the harm you may cause by doing something that will surely enrage someone.

On topic: Has anyone ever considered that other parts of the world don't operate by the same standarts? If I was in country X and openly said that I dont like some members of the country X commiting terrorism. That would be fine by me, but if I were to get killed by the very same terrorsits for being "unfaithful" or "wrong" what would the mighty West that wants "peace and prosperity for all" do to protect my family and me? In other parts of the world one can get shot easier and faster than here. Sure you can protest in your lovely tide countries, but dont expect some other people to put their life on the line for "appreciation" of your ideas.
Especially if a member of that country X reads some of the fascist statements here like "All Muslims are terrorists" (yes thats you Winner) and asks himself "why should I stick my neck out even if those we are meant to live together with, treat us as dirt?"

I've never seen such a long post full of hatred and enviousness. You should have colored it green
Anyway, it is completely irrelevant. Read again what is this thread about

 

[Gelion]

I've never seen such a long post full of hatred and enviousness. You should have colored it green
Anyway, it is completely irrelevant. Read again what is this thread about

"Why they don't denounce terrorism at least as vigorously, as they denounce couple of stupid cartoons in Western newspapers?"

^ This is the topic of your thread is it not? My last paragraph deals with that.

I still cant find a word of hate in my post. At worst it can be classified as "agressive critisim" but not by my standarts. Is that all you have to say? "I cant argue so I call you arrogant and hatefull and move on?"

 

[Princeps]

Winner is a troll, I think. He is smart: He knows he is wrong but is not willing to accept it.

Terrorists and extremists are a minority, they often are induviduals driven by need revenge. They abuse the religion, they don't represent it. Don't collectivize people as 'Muslims' and 'Westerners' (or whatever.)

 

[Jawz II]

Well, you know what the Turks did to the Armenians? It's all history and all irrelevant at this point of time...

And it's no christians attacking muslim countries.. it's America attacking Iraq. It's not a religious war.

i never said no muslim ever killed a christian, but if this guy wants to bring up the crimes of past, i was suggesting he take a good long hard at the crimes of past, i think he should see both sides.

and yes it is very irrelevant.


americans are mostly chrisitians, an no its not a religious war, its an oiligious war (i just made that word up)
but some fanatic chrisitians really want it to turn into a religious war. i dont think the muslim fanatics want it as much since their side is militarily inferior, so they cant slaughter a whole bunch of chrisitan civilians.

No no no.. if I go live in Egypt, I will have to act like an Egyptian on the streets and in public life. I can be whoever I want in my own house, but when I'm in the other country, I should adapt. So all those imigrants that come to western countries should adapt to our culture. Of course they can keep their religion, go to mosks and do the ramadan, but they also should learn the language, pay taxes, etc. Nothing too much to ask I think? And you know what? Most immigrants do exactly this!

i think the main question is, will you also walk like an egyptian?

 

[willemvanoranje]

I would have hoped the recent events in your country would change France's mindset, ovbviously that was asking too much. When police officers stand by while a dozen muslim thugs rape a girl 40 meters away, that sir is when your country has failed itself.

I am sure we can find some examples of this in your country too..although it might not have been muslims.

Theres no point rescuing people from Pakistan if their whole purpose is to spit in your face and make a new Pakistan out of your country. We should not be asking "is this muslim/pakistani/arab" etc. but rather "is this a European?" ... the resounding answer is "no" ... and why should Pakistanis be living in Europe? Pakistanis should live in Pakistan.

Do you honestly think that there is a few thousand people in Pakistan right now, sitting in a group together around a fire and saying "Hey! Let's go to England and make New Pakistan out of it!" Ridiculous!

And as much as you would like to pretend otherwise, I am a tolerant person, just not to the extent where im so tolerant that I tolerate intolerance out of political correctness, or sacrafice the lives of 100 people in the name of muslim immigrants. This is how far its gone into your head.

Everyone is tolerant to some extend.. and you sir, have some issues. We see things like this: lose a 100 lives to save 100,000. You see: lose 100 lives to save 100,000 muslim immigrants. We say YES, you say NO. Can I draw the conclusion that you value the life of someone not from your country/culture as inferior?

i never said no muslim ever killed a christian, but if this guy wants to bring up the crimes of past, i was suggesting he take a good long hard at the crimes of past, i think he should see both sides.

and yes it is very irrelevant.

very well, we agree!

americans are mostly chrisitians, an no its not a religious war, its an oiligious war (i just made that word up)
but some fanatic chrisitians really want it to turn into a religious war. i dont think the muslim fanatics want it as much since their side is militarily inferior, so they cant slaughter a whole bunch of chrisitan civilians.

Very nice description haha, oiligious!

And yes, I think it's true what you say here. I actually even think some leading people are trying to make it religious, including some parts of the american government. It's just that if they'd say "it's for oil" no one would accept it.. the part where it was to liberate and introduce democracy is not that widely accepted anymore, so stuff like religion gets the upperhand.

I've never seen such a long post full of hatred and enviousness. You should have colored it green
Anyway, it is completely irrelevant. Read again what is this thread about

I can't see the hatred either..

 

[Jawz II]

I've never seen such a long post full of hatred and enviousness. You should have colored it green
Anyway, it is completely irrelevant. Read again what is this thread about

how is it irrelevant?

you have picture of the beheaded guy on the 1st page of this troll thread, and youre saying they did it in the name of religion! thats not hatred?

cause id say they did it in the name of revenge, you mightve forgotten but i remember abu ghraib.

 

[Shaihulud]

I don't see how it is hypocrisy. Many muslims support terrorism in spirit, not the actions necessary, but they sympathise with and understand the terrorist. They do not however condone the cartoonisation of Mohammed in any way, especially as the action seems to be for the purpose of provoking muslim reactions, the purpose of the action plays a very large part in the muslim's reaction. Their perception is that the terrorists were misguided and tortured individuals, the cartoonist are malevolent and mischevious agents of the West.

 

[Jawz II]

I don't see how it is hypocrisy. Many muslims support terrorism in spirit, not the actions necessary, but they sympathise with and understand the terrorist. They do not however condone the cartoonisation of Mohammed in any way, especially as the action seems to be for the purpose of provoking muslim reactions, the purpose of the action plays a very large part in the muslim's reaction. Their perception is that the terrorists were misguided and tortured individuals, the cartoonist are malevolent and mischevious agents of the West.

ok, and how do you feel about israels "revenge killings" of palestinians?

do you support it in spirit? do you sympathise with and understand the israelis?

 

[la cosa nostra]

I am sure we can find some examples of this in your country too..although it might not have been muslims.

Not examples like that, Australians arent total left wingers .. yet ... but yeah in simular crimes it was all muslims.

Heres some examples from my own city (Sydney)

"In the winter of 2000 a series of gang rapes occurred, in which gangs of up to 18 men abducted and violently raped women. In every case, the men were of Lebanese Muslim descent, and the women of European descent. These incidents led to harsh new sentences for gang rape in New South Wales."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Sydney_race_riots

Do you honestly think that there is a few thousand people in Pakistan right now, sitting in a group together around a fire and saying "Hey! Let's go to England and make New Pakistan out of it!" Ridiculous!

No they until they come over, see how much of a pushoever people like you are and start pushing their own way.

Everyone is tolerant to some extend.. and you sir, have some issues. We see things like this: lose a 100 lives to save 100,000. You see: lose 100 lives to save 100,000 muslim immigrants. We say YES, you say NO. Can I draw the conclusion that you value the life of someone not from your country/culture as inferior?

Excuse me? How are these 100000 Pakistanis going to die? They may actaully have to WORK in their own countries as opposed to coming to Europe and living off WELFARE cheques. You're implying that Pakistan is a place where these 100 000 people would be genocided, woops is that unintentional racism I detect? And I though you were the apitomy of tolerance.

 

[la cosa nostra]

I don't see how it is hypocrisy. Many muslims support terrorism in spirit, not the actions necessary, but they sympathise with and understand the terrorist. They do not however condone the cartoonisation of Mohammed in any way, especially as the action seems to be for the purpose of provoking muslim reactions, the purpose of the action plays a very large part in the muslim's reaction. Their perception is that the terrorists were misguided and tortured individuals, the cartoonist are malevolent and mischevious agents of the West.

In other words they see us as enemies and we should not feel guilty bombing them into the ground with out superior technology?

 

[Shaihulud]

ok, and how do you feel about israels "revenge killings" of palestinians?

do you support it in spirit? do you sympathise with and understand the israelis?

I feel for both groups and understand their predicament, but I would be a fool to throw in support for any of them. They will just have to settle it by themselve, i will feel really sad if they suceed in their long term goals, any of them.

 

[Steph]

I would have hoped the recent events in your country would change France's mindset, ovbviously that was asking too much.

Recent events did have an effect. But the problem were not the muslims. It was to "park" poors in ghetto. They didn't revolt because they ARE muslims, but because they are poor and want to revolt against authorities. They think they are not given their chance. I disagree with that, because I think they also failed to seize it. They can of muslim descant or african descant, because such population are more often poor that "white" and are more often to end in such "cités". But that's economical /social, not religious. When these rioters claim their idendity, it's not to say they are muslim / african, it's to say we are from this and this "cité".
Imigration failed, that's true, and we have to rethink our system. But the problem does not lie in the muslims themselves.

When police officers stand by while a dozen muslim thugs rape a girl 40 meters away, that sir is when your country has failed itself.

What are you refering to

I hope the right wing gets elected in your country, you may not like it, but it will be for your benefit.

I have two information for you.
1- The right wing IS already elected. Parliament, government and president ARE from the right wing.
2- I am also from the right wing, so I hope they will be elected.

 

[Shaihulud]

In other words they see us as enemies and we should not feel guilty bombing them into the ground with out superior technology?

How did ypu come to this conclusion based on my post? They sympathised with the terrorist, but they think them misguided! you don't abandon your own brother just because he is a fool!

 

[Jawz II]

I feel for both groups and understand their predicament, but I would be a fool to throw in support for any of them. They will just have to settle it by themselve, i will feel really sad if they suceed in their long term goals, any of them.

good for you.

i still think youre wrong about the majority of muslims supporting the terrorists in spirit.

 

[Shaihulud]

Thay might be true. My muslim friends are quite young and perhaps they don't show conventional thinking, but muslism do show great solidarity when there are trouble though.

 

[HannibalBarka]

..
I hope the right wing gets elected in your country, you may not like it, but it will be for your benefit.

It is already a right wing government in my country dude. The kind of government that may fulfill your racist agenda is to be found among Nazional Socialist scum. You are an immigrnat in Australia, better behave like a civilized person or we gonna deport you back to your home country

 

[classical_hero]

Winner is a troll, I think. He is smart: He knows he is wrong but is not willing to accept it.

Terrorists and extremists are a minority, they often are induviduals driven by need revenge. They abuse the religion, they don't represent it. Don't collectivize people as 'Muslims' and 'Westerners' (or whatever.)

The problem is that all we see about Muslims, and they are not doing a good job of suppressing that.