Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 22,389
How many Hells Angels are left in this country? Three? And arent two of them on dialysis?
Muslim hypocrisy?
- Thread starter Winner
- Start date
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 22,389
Aw come on, these days theyre just a bunch old fat rich guys who get awy from their wives a few weekends a year and go play 'biker dude'.
Kosez
Sitting Wool
Majority of Muslims are not terrorists and/or extremists, that is something we all agree on.
BUT, even if small proportion of them are, it is too many. There is no space for extremism and radicalism in this world, not for religious, political, nationalistic, ideological,... not for islamic, neo-con and christian fundamentalism, nazism, fascism, ...
Cultural differences are no excuse, the fact that the west does not understand the muslim culture is no excuse, the fact west is manipulating with ME in economic sense is no excuse,...
The fact is cartoons have insulted muslims very much, but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to act the way they are. Now, I don't know if their governments are trying to stop them, but I know they should; I don't know if there aren't groups of intellectuals and officials&statesmen condemning those actions, but I know there should be such groups.
Nobody has the right to kill or hurt people, or to destroy their propertry; or at least this right cannot be obtained from such unimported reasons as cartoons.
BUT, even if small proportion of them are, it is too many. There is no space for extremism and radicalism in this world, not for religious, political, nationalistic, ideological,... not for islamic, neo-con and christian fundamentalism, nazism, fascism, ...
Cultural differences are no excuse, the fact that the west does not understand the muslim culture is no excuse, the fact west is manipulating with ME in economic sense is no excuse,...
The fact is cartoons have insulted muslims very much, but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to act the way they are. Now, I don't know if their governments are trying to stop them, but I know they should; I don't know if there aren't groups of intellectuals and officials&statesmen condemning those actions, but I know there should be such groups.
Nobody has the right to kill or hurt people, or to destroy their propertry; or at least this right cannot be obtained from such unimported reasons as cartoons.
Jawz II
Oh Dear
Gelion said:Its me, you and Jaws
im actually an islamonazi. its like being an islamofacist, except im racist too.
but dont you dare call me Ahmed, its sheik Ahmed to you infidels!!
PS.I agree with VRWCAgent and Kosez. great posts.
In the last three months, I have walked by biker 'hang outs' where up to 20 members were milling around.
To prove a point, I tried to publically bad mouth them (commenting loudly to my friends) (by pointing out that the rookies should watch who they hang with because the patched members were nasty people). My friends immediately shushed me, and other people around gave very scared looks.
I asked my friends later why they shushed me, and they replied that they did not want to be followed and beaten up in a back alley.
There's a strong parallel to the newspaper incident. People thought I was foolish to speak my mind, because they trusted the Bikers to break the law in response.
Tank_Guy#3
Lion of Lehistan
I would also like to know why they don't denounce terrorists as much as they denounce those cartoons, and the United States for that matter. If it wasn't for terrorists we would never have invaded the Middle East (again).
Gelion
Retired Captain
I think the roots of this problem go much deeper than US attacking Iraq (for a second time).Tank_Guy#3 said:
HannibalBarka
We are Free
Tank_Guy#3 said:
For the same reason people in the US accept 100 000 Iraqi civilians dead and 2000 GI's and not the opposite. The day the americans, and for that matter any other group of people will care as much about the other than about them selves, muslims will denouce terrorists as much as they denouce stupid cartoons
Hello everybody. I think this is my first post here despite registering a long time ago.
I am a Muslim and I would like to say that I feel very saddened with what had happened recently. 'Blasphemous' cartoons or not, there is no justification to torch embassies nor to call for beheadings.
If you guys want proof that there are Muslims who hates what the extremists are doing in the name of their religion, then I can say that most of the Muslims I know belong in this category. When news broke out that they burnt down the embassies, me and my friends were disgusted. This is not how it is supposed to be.
The prophet taught us to be patient and compassionate. There was once an old lady who threw faeces at the prophet whenever he walks by her house, but he never got mad. Instead, when one day he realised the lady was not there throwing faeces at him, he went to the house and asked if she was alright. She was apparently ill, and the prophet took care of her. Such was his compassion.
Muslims nowadays have ourselves to blame for the negative image we are being pictured as. We let emotions rule our actions when Islam teaches us to control our desires. I am not surprised to see more people seem to hate the Muslims everyday.
However, I beg you not to judge Islam as a religion by what you see Muslims are doing in the media today.
In response to someone posting about the Quran encouraging the killings of non-believers, I would like to say that if you take single verses out at read them out on their own, they will lose their intended meaning. Most of the verses pointed out I believe deals with what God commands us to do in an actual war, ie when one side officially declares against another, and only against military targets. No civilians must be harmed in any way.
There is even a recent fatwa against the killing of civilians. It is called 'Defending The Transgressed By Censuring The Reckless Against The Killing Of Civilians' by Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti. Read it if you are interested. It counters the argument used by those who encourage suicide bombings excellently. Islam is not a religion of violence.
Thank you.
I am a Muslim and I would like to say that I feel very saddened with what had happened recently. 'Blasphemous' cartoons or not, there is no justification to torch embassies nor to call for beheadings.
If you guys want proof that there are Muslims who hates what the extremists are doing in the name of their religion, then I can say that most of the Muslims I know belong in this category. When news broke out that they burnt down the embassies, me and my friends were disgusted. This is not how it is supposed to be.
The prophet taught us to be patient and compassionate. There was once an old lady who threw faeces at the prophet whenever he walks by her house, but he never got mad. Instead, when one day he realised the lady was not there throwing faeces at him, he went to the house and asked if she was alright. She was apparently ill, and the prophet took care of her. Such was his compassion.
Muslims nowadays have ourselves to blame for the negative image we are being pictured as. We let emotions rule our actions when Islam teaches us to control our desires. I am not surprised to see more people seem to hate the Muslims everyday.
However, I beg you not to judge Islam as a religion by what you see Muslims are doing in the media today.
In response to someone posting about the Quran encouraging the killings of non-believers, I would like to say that if you take single verses out at read them out on their own, they will lose their intended meaning. Most of the verses pointed out I believe deals with what God commands us to do in an actual war, ie when one side officially declares against another, and only against military targets. No civilians must be harmed in any way.
There is even a recent fatwa against the killing of civilians. It is called 'Defending The Transgressed By Censuring The Reckless Against The Killing Of Civilians' by Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti. Read it if you are interested. It counters the argument used by those who encourage suicide bombings excellently. Islam is not a religion of violence.
Thank you.
Pokurcz
Emperor
I have wondered to myself how come the normal muslems apparently react so feverently (leaving reaktionist extremists out of the equation) that public outrage over the cartoons is so widespread and heated.
Perhaps naively I come to the conclusion that it must be a misunderstanding of cultures.
For the majority of europeans the cartoons seme quite ordinary because they do not take religion seriously enough and there fore do not understand the uproar.
Whilst in the muslem world where politics are not separated from religion, religion is taken bloodily seriously, and they can not fathom how it could be otherwise. They do not realise that it is possible to have a distanced realtionship to religion and there fore believe that the cartoons where a deliberet insult from people that take religion as seriously as they.
As everyone has plainly noticed the muslems seem to have a sketchy understanding of democracy and freedom of speech, at best. So they take the publishings of a newspaper as the view of a regime and a nation as a whole it seems.
A sorry ass pity is what it is. It just seems so unreal.
The way I see it, through no fault of their own, the people in the muslem world need to be put in tuch with the rest of the world and get educated on a grass root level, not the western world relinquishing its rights of freedom of speach.
Perhaps naively I come to the conclusion that it must be a misunderstanding of cultures.
For the majority of europeans the cartoons seme quite ordinary because they do not take religion seriously enough and there fore do not understand the uproar.
Whilst in the muslem world where politics are not separated from religion, religion is taken bloodily seriously, and they can not fathom how it could be otherwise. They do not realise that it is possible to have a distanced realtionship to religion and there fore believe that the cartoons where a deliberet insult from people that take religion as seriously as they.
As everyone has plainly noticed the muslems seem to have a sketchy understanding of democracy and freedom of speech, at best. So they take the publishings of a newspaper as the view of a regime and a nation as a whole it seems.
A sorry ass pity is what it is. It just seems so unreal.
The way I see it, through no fault of their own, the people in the muslem world need to be put in tuch with the rest of the world and get educated on a grass root level, not the western world relinquishing its rights of freedom of speach.
I'm confused what is being referred to here as *hypocrisy*.
We have a group of people who are advocating violence as a result of the cartoons. And most of this group, presumably, have not condemned the violence committed by various terrorists.
Um, why is this a surprise? Hypocrisy would surely be the other way round! - Condemning violence as a bad thing, and then adovocating violence.
Perhaps I've missed your point... but in my opinion, it's a red herring that they didn't protest against the terrorism. Firstly it's a statement of the bleeding obvious that the fundamentalists who advocate violence for "insulting Islam" are probably not going to be the ones condemning the Islamic terrorism. Secondly, it's irrelevant - the morality of the recent protests should be judged independantly of whether they have protested other things. If I go on a protest with good cause, that is not affected by whether or not I protested other things. On the other hand, if I go on a violent protest, then this is a bad thing in itself anyway.
The fact that these fundamentalists exist and are making these protests is worrying in itself.
We have a group of people who are advocating violence as a result of the cartoons. And most of this group, presumably, have not condemned the violence committed by various terrorists.
Um, why is this a surprise? Hypocrisy would surely be the other way round! - Condemning violence as a bad thing, and then adovocating violence.
Perhaps I've missed your point... but in my opinion, it's a red herring that they didn't protest against the terrorism. Firstly it's a statement of the bleeding obvious that the fundamentalists who advocate violence for "insulting Islam" are probably not going to be the ones condemning the Islamic terrorism. Secondly, it's irrelevant - the morality of the recent protests should be judged independantly of whether they have protested other things. If I go on a protest with good cause, that is not affected by whether or not I protested other things. On the other hand, if I go on a violent protest, then this is a bad thing in itself anyway.
The fact that these fundamentalists exist and are making these protests is worrying in itself.
The silver lining of the whole affair is, that quite a few sympathisers in Europe are going to finally realize who's the true enemy. Nothing works better as a wake-up call, then a taste of the Islamofascist medicine (think 9/11, 7/7), in your own backyard - and it is only a matter of time, before we see one.
Kosez
Sitting Wool
I imagine sabrateur has completely right, majority of muslims are as disgusted by fanatics as we are. But maybe they don't do enough to push those fanatics to obscurity and to remove them from politics. It is obvious that religious fanatics are politicaly very strong in many Islamic countries, that is not good and shouldn't be this way, because if fanatics are actually in governments of states then those states aren't gonna do nothing to prevent such things to happen in future.
But is fair to say that west is also partially to blame for that, because of cheap oil we support dictatorships in Saudi Arabia, Egypt and elsewhere, and thus we are not making possible for democratic changes to take action.
Situation is tricky, West cannot solve instead of moderate muslims but moderate muslims cannot solve it without help from the West.
But is fair to say that west is also partially to blame for that, because of cheap oil we support dictatorships in Saudi Arabia, Egypt and elsewhere, and thus we are not making possible for democratic changes to take action.
Situation is tricky, West cannot solve instead of moderate muslims but moderate muslims cannot solve it without help from the West.
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
Every post you make is a troll. Go back under your bridge! If you are a DL the mods will get you soon, if not you are a sad sad person to want to come to CFC just to troll.Honest Atheist said:
Moderator Action: Warned for trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Winner
Diverse in Unity
anarres said:
Troll = usually an opinion the PC people disagree with, but they can't disprove it.
Gelion
Retired Captain
"In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts rude or offensive messages on the Internet, such as on online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants" (Wiki)Winner said:
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Excellent point. It seems that alot of people are ignoring the evidence. The evidence is showing that the majority are silent and thus we just do not know what they believe in, whereas the opinions of those that we do know, are reacting very violently and this is why many of us are so worried. If we saw Muslims show there anger at those who are using their Religion to kill people, then there would not be this upcry. And that is the reason why this satirical cartoon was produced because Islam and the Bomb seem to be tied together. In fact, the reaction to the cartoons are actually justification for them being printed because it does show how violence is tied to the Islamic religion.Winner said:
I really like the reaction of thee Muslims. They blame Jews and they post these 'cartoons' that are not just blasphemous but they are insulting to the six million plus Jews who died in the holocaust and they are forgetting that if it were not for the Palestians blowing themselves up in Jewish areas, then there would be any need for retaliation. It has always been the Muslims attacking first and Israel has beeen retaliating to these acts against there country. They are doing what any nation would do under those circumstances.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
The post by that poster have neither been rude, offensive, disruptive. They might have upset a few people because they want to believe that the West is wrong in there reaction to the Muslims and that the Muslims are justified in there reactions. The problem is that the "Majority" of Muslims do not believe in violence. The problem is that no action = support for the violence. If they really think that these "extremists" are violating there religion, then why have we not heard from them. Why have they have they not protested against those who kill in the name of Allah? These are very important questions that have not been answered by anyone apologising for Muslims. Either answer these questions and show those who are against Islam are wrong, by showing examples of where major protests have been planed against Terroism by Muslims. We really need to be shown this, otherwise our criticisms are just.Gelion said:
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