Muslim World Enhancements

[iOnlySignIn]

Power of the Sword of Islam
No resistance in conquered cities.

(Here, the Sword more refers to how Walid successfully conquered and held territory so easily)

This is a great suggestion.

Khalid is the Sword of Allah. One of the greatest military commanders of all time and especially admirable for his minimization of bloodshed.

My UP suggestion was made with Muhammad and the Rightly Guided Caliphs in mind, but Khalid is just as worthy of the honor.

 

[alpav]

Don't the Persians already have a similar UP?

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Don't the Persians already have a similar UP?

The Persian UP (free Militarism) is different and better in the long term.

This proposed Arab UP is the old Babylonian UP from vanilla RFC, that was scrapped later because Babylonia doesn't conquer many cities at all (in fact I think its optimal UHV strategy is OCC).

However, it does fit the Arabs a lot better than Babylonia.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

Not really. I assume you're making the Classical/Dark Age distinction, but the notion of "Dark Ages" have been discredited.

Don't be patronizing, you know that's its obvious much quicker (and less ugly) than saying Pre-majority-Christian-post-Stone-Age-prior-to-the-Germanic/Arab-barbarian-invasions-era.

Any post-Muslim-era Middle-Eastern Civ is as a fun and unique challenge as any Christian, Buddhist or Hindu Civ, this sort of specialized stuff is more for the Sword of Islam imo.

 

[Bickerstaff]

Even if you are Christian and/or Eurocentric, surely you've heard of ritual purification?

Turkish Baths are built as annex buildings of mosques, so that people can cleanse their bodies before prayer.

I'm half Turkish, actually. It's not really appropriate to use the present tense here, since nowadays the facilities mosques provide for ritual ablutions don't resemble bath houses at all, but I see your point historically. I still think it would be really weird to attach University of Sankore research bonuses to them.

I agree that no resistance in conquered cities is another viable UP for the Arabs.

I think the House of Wisdom, like the University of Sankore, needs to expire before it can synergise with universities. Paper is probably too early, so I think it should go obsolete with Education. But the best choice here is heavily dependent on whether the proposed change to madrassas is accepted.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

^ I have a tendency to use present tense for everything. :S But this is a historical mod which mostly covers the period before Turkey was secularized - the UHV ends at 1800 AD.

The Turks are the latest starting Muslim civ (with Paper, I think), which means Univ. of Sankore will obsolete very fast for them. My modification is just an attempt to make this Wonder matter a little bit more for the Turks, instead of being completely useless.

It always puzzles me why Univ. of Sankore obsoletes, whereas Sistine Chapel does not. The effect of Sistine Chapel is so obscenely powerful that I often deliberately avoid building it, because it gives me too much Culture which leads to instability.

 

[Hightower]

^ I have a tendency to use present tense for everything. :S But this is a historical mod which mostly covers the period before Turkey was secularized - the UHV ends at 1800 AD.

The Turks are the latest starting Muslim civ (with Paper, I think), which means Univ. of Sankore will obsolete very fast for them. My modification is just an attempt to make this Wonder matter a little bit more for the Turks, instead of being completely useless.

It always puzzles me why Univ. of Sankore obsoletes, whereas Sistine Chapel does not. The effect of Sistine Chapel is so obscenely powerful that I often deliberately avoid building it, because it gives me too much Culture which leads to instability.

I think it's mainly for balance reasons. If University of Sankore didn't obsolete, whoever controls it would probably end up way ahead in tech in the late game, while the Muslim countries should slow down in tech in the late game.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

^ Yeah, I get it. It's just that this wonder is pointless for anyone who wishes to race for Liberalism.

I always race for Liberalism. My favorite tech in the game except perhaps Electricity & Currency.

 

[jammerculture]

Bump

There's some good stuff in here

 

[Leoreth]

I agree. I remember this thread so I definitely read it, and was looking for my response to it, but apparently I never wrote one Maybe I can cover most stuff later in more detail. In general I like the idea to make religions more distinct and special, and moving the Arab UP to Islam makes a lot of sense. I really like the no resistence in conquered cities UP as Arab replacement as well.

The problem is I currently can't think about adding features when the game is currently in an unplayable state.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

In general I like the idea to make religions more distinct and special, and moving the Arab UP to Islam makes a lot of sense. I really like the no resistence in conquered cities UP as Arab replacement as well.

inb4 This makes Islam OP.

Islam should provide the most benefit out of all religions since it spawns the latest by far. But currently in game, Catholicism > all. Few things beat +4.5 per city.

The problem is I currently can't think about adding features when the game is currently in an unplayable state.

Of course this (and other exciting new features like Decolonization) will have to wait till you finish the K-Mod ordeal. I'm just happy to know it's on your mind.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, it is. It's just hard to get into the "get down to business" mode necessary to arrive at constructive concepts when I'm currently just combing through bugs.

 

[jammerculture]

This is the trick guys. Whenever Leoreth starts thinking he's done, you hit him with an awesome idea like this, get him fired up for the mod again. This way he can never be free. muaahahahahahahahahaa

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

There should to be something representing Saracen piracy, it was ubiquitious across southern Europe lasted at least 800 years longer than the Vikings.
In gameplay terms would the fall of Classical world more natural and less dependent of hidden modifiers (do away with them whenever possible imo), and make Italy more likely to spawn.
Islamic Civs should get some sort of diplomatic/stability bonus for every non-Muslim civ they're at war with, (could use Jihad mechanic from SoI?) like Nationalism civic.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

There should to be something representing Saracen piracy, it was ubiquitious across southern Europe lasted at least 800 years longer than the Vikings.

AI Moors could get stacks of Privateers spawning for them. Or, if they're dead, Barb privateers would spawn. Same as in RFCE.

Islamic Civs should get some sort of diplomatic/stability bonus for every non-Muslim civ they're at war with, (could use Jihad mechanic from SoI?) like Nationalism civic.

Does this (Stability bonus from Jihad) exist in SoI?

In DoC I think this would be equivalent to a straight up buff to Muslim civs' Stability (which I think is appropriate in some cases, e.g. Mughals), as it's close to impossible for them to NOT be at war with multiple non-Muslim civs anyway. IIRC, Byzantium, Spain, France, and HRE all have near certain spawn at war probability with Arabia. And the Vikings, being Vikings, will always join the dog pile.

 

[LackingGravitas]

edit: nevermind I posted without reading the comments

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

What is dogpile?
I see it diplomacy text but I've never figured out what it means.

New Mechanic, maybe not just for the Mussulmans.
Feyadeen: By paying gold, spawn a proportional-number of agressive-barbarians within borders of Civilization of your choice, whether at war with them or not.
This is extremely underestimated in Islamic expansion, practically every single Muslim conquest was preceded by massive despoilation of enemy economy & wrecking internal stability by Feyadeen raids and political assasinations (Hashashin are similar to this but not the same).

This would add whole new gameplay strategies.

 

[Leoreth]

What is dogpile?
I see it diplomacy text but I've never figured out what it means.

It basically means backstabbing, i.e. AIs declaring war on someone who is otherwise occupied.

 

[blizzrd]

What is dogpile?
I see it diplomacy text but I've never figured out what it means.

It basically means backstabbing, i.e. AIs declaring war on someone who is otherwise occupied.

More specifically, it refers to "stacks on" in the same way that a bunch of puppies will jump on top of each other when over-excited about whatever they were chasing. Also known as a pileup or a crush (the person on the bottom of the pile feels crushed under the weight of the others).

 

[Lennon789]

I actually don't think there should be a very good chance of the Arabs spawning at war with the Vikings. At the time you meet the Vikings as the Arabs, they generally haven't been Christianized, so there's no in-game reason for this. Also, from a historical perspective, the first contact between these peoples was relatively peaceful and mercantile in nature.

source: http://www.nordicway.com/search/Vikings%20in%20the%20East.htm

So in sum, I don't think there should be any auto-war on spawn between these two civilizations.