GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Last time I checked, Muslims only consider Jesus as one of their prophets.
Muslims want to worship in Cordoba Cathedral.
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CartesianFart
Deity
No problem,i've done it quite a few times.Katyern said:
Thank God!I was believing that you were some kind of delusional Christian.
Ok.
Ok,in my own terms,i have to say that this is implying some kind of obedience on how to define the nature of who is Christ really is.I am not some kind of prostrate animal to make a mockery of myself to bow to any man on the account of any author (the person who wrote that passage)who claims it to be,whether he or she claim to be divine of some sort.I have toooo much pride of myself.
I am not going to bow to one God and then go ahead and bow to one more.
Yep,i just did.There you go,i am outside of the Christian common-sense.So help me God.
I did say in the past and i would not be suprise that many secular Christians out there who are not or is in a church or congregation that don't believe that Christ is a son of God but only a mere man.
Respectful only for the Christian perspective,such as you.I have to say that even some of the Bible have its own contents that is remotely absurd and sometimes hostile as such as the Koran does,don't you think not?
Judge not,let ye be judge.
cegman
Scott Walker Supporter
What I don't believe in GOD WTH will you shut your stupid trap and stop telling me what I believe.
Well, I think of you as a fanatic. Fanatics are, in general, impossible to deal with. Now, call it a hunch, but I don't think you're actually dangerous (as far as violence goes), so I can safely sideline you.
But seriously, read your post 86. You declare it impossible for the two religions to co-exist. Well, maybe for you it is impossible, but it's not impossible in general. Ergo, part of the 'co-existence' is to ignore the fanatics, and their ranting. (and, if it's warranted, pre-emptively strike if there's a threat of violence).
Aggressively sidelining the loudmouths who do not represent the majority opinion is the wisest choice. I don't want a religous nutbar reading your post 86 to think "cripes, they're determined to not co-exist!", nor do I want Knigh+ to think that either.
With the fanatics (who're not dangerous), it's just best to identify them for what they are, and encourage people to ignore them.
Whereas it is highly likely that there are more religious people in muslim countries than in christian ones (due to backwardness, poverty etc) it is not that likely that there are less fanatics amongst those that are religious christians.
Trying to examine how nations can live along on the basis of religion is already a lost debate. It would be like examining how two people suffering from different contagious disease could live along, on the basis that they keep their diseases. This could be a good debate for those contaminated, but not really an issue of global importance outside that house of illness.
It always seems sad to me that people who have the need to be guarded by their religion, find the audacity to actually think that this is just something natural, and then move on to infest with their state other issues as well, such as politics. If someone had the need to apply a topical medicine n times a day on his body, and then was irrated due to that, it would have been irrational to think that this irritation would have been felt so that he could now use it as a fuel for his anger while talking of alltogether different issues. Yet this is also done by those who are religious.
Trying to examine how nations can live along on the basis of religion is already a lost debate. It would be like examining how two people suffering from different contagious disease could live along, on the basis that they keep their diseases. This could be a good debate for those contaminated, but not really an issue of global importance outside that house of illness.
It always seems sad to me that people who have the need to be guarded by their religion, find the audacity to actually think that this is just something natural, and then move on to infest with their state other issues as well, such as politics. If someone had the need to apply a topical medicine n times a day on his body, and then was irrated due to that, it would have been irrational to think that this irritation would have been felt so that he could now use it as a fuel for his anger while talking of alltogether different issues. Yet this is also done by those who are religious.
Well, unfortunately, facts tell us a different story. Christians are being killed all over the world by Muslims. In Indonesia, in Egypt, in Palestine, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, just for being Christians.
They are not minor. They are the difference between being a Christian or not. People have died for this belief. Martyrs all over the world are still killed for believing this, for believing "God has a partner" in Jesus Christ. That God has a "partner" in the Holy Spirit. They are killed for believing that "Jesus Christ is the begotten Son of God."
That is not minor. Christians do not follow the Ten Commandments. That is Jewish. Genesis has been changed by Muslims to say that it is Ishmael instead of Isaac, so no, we do NOT Genesis in common. Muslims have also changed the Old Testament to say that these men were Muslims, which they were not. Isaac was the son that Abraham nearly killed, not Ishmael. Moses received the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai, not in Saudi Arabia.
The Apocalypse story is completely different between the Muslims and the Christians. We do not believe in a Dajjal. We do not believe that Jesus will return and fight with the Mahdi. We believe the Mahdi could be the Antichrist, in fact. We would never agree that Jesus, when He returns, will tell us that we were mistaken, that the disciples lied and stole his body, and told us all a ficticious story about his dying on the cross for our sins. We don't believe that He will destroy all the crosses on our churches. We don't believe that He will tell us all to become Muslims. We do not believe that Jesus Christ will reign for 40 years, but forever.
We do not agree about heaven and hell. Christians do not know a great deal about it and do not speculate very much. But we do know that Muslims say they will have a sex orgy with 72 virgins if they die in jihad. Christians believe that there will be no sex in the afterlife, as Jesus told us.
The barbarism of the crusades were a reaction to 400 years of conquest by the Muslims of the known world. By the time the Crusades started, which kicked the aggressive Muslims out of Europe, they had conquered and sacked many of the most sophisticated cities of Europe, like Rome, including the residence of the Pope, Vienna, Pisa, Damascus, Cyprus, Constantinople, Marseille, Malta, Iraq, Egypt, Jerusalem, Antioch, Persia and make inroads into India.
I am saying what the Bible says. If you pervert the "gospel of Jesus Christ" by adding a system of rules to make one acceptable to God, you are to be "eternally condemned". It is by grace we have been saved, through faith, faith in the death of Jesus on the cross. Read it right here:
The precise perversion is that one must FOLLOW THE LAW (ie the Ten Commandments) to be saved.
Paul goes on to explain what that gospel is:
The Jesus you love is not the Jesus of the Christians. He is a completely different person. His name is Isa, and he is not the Begotten of the Father that Christians have worshipped as God for 2,000 years.
If the Muslims reopen that Hagia Sophia for Christian worship, then they can talk about the Cordoba Cathedral.
Once again I wonder where you invent such laws you attribute to muslims. I went through Quran 7 times so far, and don't recall such a weird law. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Muslims and Christians used to share the Great Mosque of Damascus.[/QUOTE]
That is the Apostle John writing this, not Paul.
Here is where you can find it:
http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=1 John+2&version=49
I do not hate Muslims. I do not like the basis of their religion. As you can see in this thread, they took characters of the Bible, like Ishmael and Jesus, and completely reinvented them. That is just wrong. If they wanted to start a new religion, they should create their own characters instead of stealing them from another group, and changing them so it benefits them.
That is wrong.
Quote:
Quote:
2:62 - Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
We do not believe in Allah. That should be plain.
What I don't believe in GOD WTH will you shut your stupid trap and stop telling me what I believe.
__________________
Well, if you don't believe in God, then you are not a Christian, are you?
Then you are not one of the "WE" that the Koran is talking about, are you"?
The Koran here says that "the Christians... who believe in Allah..."
And I said "We (in Christians) don't believe in Allah".
Obviously, it has nothing to do with you, if you don't believe in God.
Duh.
Quote:
2:62 - Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
We do not believe in Allah. That should be plain.
What I don't believe in GOD WTH will you shut your stupid trap and stop telling me what I believe.
__________________
Well, if you don't believe in God, then you are not a Christian, are you?
Then you are not one of the "WE" that the Koran is talking about, are you"?
The Koran here says that "the Christians... who believe in Allah..."
And I said "We (in Christians) don't believe in Allah".
Obviously, it has nothing to do with you, if you don't believe in God.
Duh.
One mans change is another mans reinterpritation, as usual your asssuming that only your views are correct, I don't find religion historically consistent, it tends to rewrite it to suit itself.
I'm a little confused by this, what you're saying is that they shouldn't worship God, only Christians and Jews are allowed to worship Yahewa, or Jehova. If you want to create a religion make sure it doesn't worship the same God as us, make sure it's an idolotrous and pagan one, and doesn't worship the true God. That way we wont be as offended?
Oh I saw your last post, you still actually believe that Islam worships a different God despite the fact that it doesn't, never mind. There's no use talking to someone who is so ingrained in religous nonsense such as Alah is not Yahewa and so on. Fundementalists, the only group in history that has reclassified their God apart from the Muslim God, good luck with that, you're not going to be taken very seriously.
cegman
Scott Walker Supporter
Like christians to jews?
Ok so I still can't find who John is writing to nor what is going on at this time. If I find the time I will look for it to see if I can find it.
Ok so I still can't find who John is writing to nor what is going on at this time. If I find the time I will look for it to see if I can find it.
cegman
Scott Walker Supporter
Allah = Jewish God Yaweh or something like that.
Bad Player
Deity
I thought last night that Christians and Jews once shared the same sites in the early days of Christianity. Maybe that was a special case, maybe not. 
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Obvious typo aside, I do not believe in any of the vital tenets of Christianity. Does it then follow that I believe that Christianity is evil? Uhm, no.
You are so full of it...
I thought last night that Christians and Jews once shared the same sites in the early days of Christianity. Maybe that was a special case, maybe not.
There were two distinct apostolic attempts, one targeted at the jews, and another to the 'ethnikoi' (non jewish). The second developed to christianity and had as its foundation the letters to the Corinthians, Thessalonikians (i did not get them in my mail) and the other epistles, along with the bible which was written a few decades after the death of jesus (if he ever existed).
The other attempt towards the jews was reduced to a sect and failed. Moreover it was not the same to the letter (it had various typical mosaic law elements).
It has to be understood that at the time of rise of christianity, and later on islam, the vast majority of people lived in bad conditions. Even in modern times one could examine cases of people who grew up in very difficult circumstances, but back then it was the norm for most of society, apart from some merchants, nobles and other members of state hierarchy. The ideas of difference, power, safety were defintely far more glorified, and distant to materialise for most, and christianity, islam and other such religions of the powerless, were being targeted exactly to those who felt that their weakness (either percieved or 'real') could mean that they now should be seen as chosen people.
Nowdays the situation is hopefully a lot better, and in the western world at least the popular problems are of different form (eg relativism, antagonism, isolationism etc). The sooner the west has got rid of religion, the better. At least then it could argue that it can ask of the muslim world to get rid of its own religious backwardness as well. But to argue that islam is more backward than christianity is a fallacy, since it would be like arguing that only blinding one eye is fine, since it is better than blinding both. But compared with someone who has both eyes both states are miserable.
The reason why it is impossible for these two religions to co-exist isn't because of Christian doctrine. It is not the Christians who are going on a march, we are not immigrating, we are not trying to change the laws to Sharia like they are doing in Europe, Christians are not demanding that the Saudis change their laws and allow Bibles. Christians are not demanding that Indonesia and Malaysia change their laws and allow conversion. Christians are not demanding that Muslims get rid of the abaya, that is the secularists. Christians are not demanding anything.
It is because of the demand of Islam to eradicate the Christian belief system. And you can say I am a fanatic if you like, in order to "sideline" what I say, but you can see every day that there is violence Muslims against Christians.
Christians are fine to exist along with Muslims. It is the Muslims that are killing the Christians.
Like here:
And there is more, it is constant for Christians to be persecuted by Muslims:
http://www.persecution.net/news/palestine3.html
With the fanatics (who're not dangerous), it's just best to identify them for what they are, and encourage people to ignore them.[/QUOTE]
Again, you have it turned around. It is the Muslims who are throwing out the Christians. It is happening all over the world. I already posted the article where in Malaysia, a girl is arrested for converting from Islam to Christianity. She is up for the death penalty.
Until Islam will tone down their holy book and eliminate those that encourage killing Jews and Christians, there will be those like me, who actually read the paper and find these things going on, and want to warn people not to allow this culture to emigrate to our shores.
Islam can do that. They can reign in their doctrine, take out the parts that encourage jihad against unbelievers. The part of the Koran I posted a little while ago would be a good start. As long as I have time to go on the internet,
I will continue to pressure Muslims to do something about their holy books that demand persecution and violence against Christians and Jews. While they are at it, they can stop putting to death gays and adulterers as well. It is inappropriate, and must be changed.
Desmond Hawkins
Deity
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There is a difference between "are" persecuting and "always will be" persecuting.
Co-existence is not impossible. Perhaps building understanding in predominantly Christian countries is a good first step. Be the bigger "man" and let them worship on Fridays.
Of course the best way to peace is if both religions fade into insignificance in the lives of their adherents
Co-existence is not impossible. Perhaps building understanding in predominantly Christian countries is a good first step. Be the bigger "man" and let them worship on Fridays.
Of course the best way to peace is if both religions fade into insignificance in the lives of their adherents
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
@Katheryn - Have you considered that its the fundamentalist extremists Muslims who kill Christians and other non-Muslims?
You don't believe Christianity is evil because their holy book makes sense.
Jesus said, "forgive or you will not be forgiven" and "seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened" and "when you pray, go into your closet and do so, not on the street corner, to be seen by men..." and all kinds of other wonderful things.
Unfortunately, if you read the Koran, like the chapter I posted on the last page, it is full of killing, looting and enslaving those you conquer, as long as you do it in the name of Allah.
Christianity is no threat to you. That is why you do not think it evil.
And, you are missing the point entirely. The Bible says not to trust those who come, like religious people, trying to draw a Christian away from the truth of Jesus Christ being the Son of God. And that is what Islam does, their apologists say, "Oh, we love Jesus, come join us in interfaith, we all believe in the same God". And many are decieved. They do not believe in the Jesus we know. They have taken His character and twisted and sliced it up to be someone wholly unrecognizable.
Bad Player
Deity
I don't understand whom you consider a Muslim.
I think a Muslim is someone who calls themselves a Muslim and follows the teachings of the Koran + respected Hadith. What is your definition?
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Have you ever think that muslims would have much more reasons for feeling menaced by christians than you for feeling menaced by muslims?Katheryn said:
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