My First Online Game

[learner gamer]

Once again, I can only echo Leventis’ thoughts...well played Copterman. Leventis is spot on too about your next GS - maths and the UB > currency is key for you at the mo’ - and about building / whipping more workers.

Indeed, the only point which I can add is that, according to dj_anion’s excellent guide here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236346

Saladin can in fact DoW at cautious (where there’s a 70% chance of overruling a DoW, as opposed to 20% at annoyed) and, sadly, in my experience will do so. (That said, the shared religion boost is helping boost him to pleased...just keep him there (eg. by trading resources for the diplo bonus, although religion alone may well take care of it) and take him out at your leisure / if culture threatens Edirne.

Look forward to seeing the next round.

Edit: I included the guide and raised the DoW issue since Leventis originally mentioned Saladin DoWing at annoyed in the earlier post.

 

[Leventis]

Saladin can in fact DoW at cautious (where there’s a 70% chance of overruling a DoW, as opposed to 20% at annoyed)

Indeed he can . It's really no problem in this game anyway, as you say with the shared religion. Just editing that earlier post...

 

[Silu]

I'd almost never bulb Math. Soon you have the research to get it very fast and either way it's just a waste compared to settling or bulbing something like Philo, especially since you're only grinding scientists in 1 city.

I see you are only grinding scientists in capital and not anywhere else - pretty much the opposite of what I would have done. Remember that Bureu doesn't do anything for grinding GPs so the optimal place for cottages (if any) would be in the capital. There're no very good places to move the capital to either.

I have to admit I forgot about the UB, otherwise I would have thought about skipping Monarchy (and Oracle, was kind of a gamble so late) and go Math->Aes->Literature instead. I guess IW is good now that you settled the faraway gem city (easy to pop borders with a 5food tile btw though Confu should spread pretty fast there) but I'd hurry for Parth and TGL after that at the latest, they will do wonders (no pun intended) when you actually start using scientists, of which I'd run 2-4 in 4-5 cities.

 

[learner gamer]

As usual, Silu has made some great points and got me thinking. Maybe there is indeed better value in using GS #2 for an academy in the capital, especially if you cottage more tiles there to bring down the cost of researching currency and all subsequent techs.

Re: capital. You’re certainly approaching a juncture concerning the science specialists. Keep them or use them to work cottages for commerce and go for faster regrowth at the same time. If the latter, maybe Bursa and / or Konya can help run a few science specialists? Beyond that, running them is difficult at the mo’ IMHO since there are very few libraries about (indeed, not even in Bursa or Konya yet because other builds have justifiably taken precedence), nor a huge amount of food to feed them in your cities until Samsun gets up and running.

Re: the UB. Silu wasn’t the only one who forgot about the UB for which I can only apologise....maths would indeed have solved the happiness issue better than monarchy at this early stage. Still, CoL (as opposed to maths) was not a bad choice from The Oracle given the need for courthouses and gold.

Looking at your write up again, there are also a couple more points:

Re: chariots. I haven’t done the maths re: whip weariness but, with Saladin at pleased, you may even want to just build or whip some warriors rather than chariots for garrison, and then another 1 or 2 for the last bit of fogbusting...depends on how big the risk of barb attack to Samsun is I guess. You could then delete the fogbuster(s) later as borders pop to save maintenance.

Re: city location. Out of curio, what was the thought process behind settling Diyarbakir 1N of the spices? As before, I ask not to criticise, but I just wonder if that city would have been better placed S, SE of the corn on the NE coast? Admittedly, it would've had to wait for a border pop to work the corn and clams but, as noted in my dotmap (which I appreciate you couldn’t read as per the earlier discussion) that would also have left the pigs / horse site N of the river on the W coast open. Were you therefore going for a better block (which you could also get by temporarily closing borders if needed) or to access the pigs to get the city up and running faster?

Lastly, out of curio, do you have the original 4000BC save Copterman? I ask because I’m itching to know how an alternative start rushing Saladin (which I did not advocate) would’ve played out!

 

[Silu]

Land fogbusting is 100% already in the save... So military units should not be built except for garrisons and military police. Diyabarkir is indeed a bit funny and makes it harder to benefit from all the Clam, Corn and the last Gem, but could be worse - at least it has a food resource in the BFC.

Biggest questions at the moment IMO are tech path after Lit and Civil Service and the specialist/cottage distribution. I disagree a bit about the building priorities, there're many useless Barracks and early Granaries (you only have 1 grain as well) which could be Libraries instead. But again this stems from my opinion that there should be many more scientists going already - for example those 2 crap tiles worked in Bursa should be scientists IMO.

If you are indeed going to run scientists you could consider swapping to Caste along with Bureu; free border pops and max scientists in the various multiple food resource cities.

 

[MadmanAtW]

Someone suggested not killing Saladin until you meet the rest of the world- I just want to note that if you wait for other Civs to find your continent before rushing Saladin, he might make friends and thus cause the "you declared war on our friends!" demerit. If you kill him before he meets anyone, no one is the wiser.

 

[learner gamer]

Silu: yeah, you’re right about the fogbusting...forgot the 2 tile rule, d’oh! Re: builds, I see your point but maybe I’m just more forgiving. After all, the only two cities with a barracks also have a library, and granaries help whipping. Interesting as always to see how different gamers play the same map (which is another reason why I mentioned if the 4000BC save was still around). Re: Bursa, I auto assumed those tiles would be whipped away ASAP, either for a courthouse or maybe even a worker...after my earlier long winded post sapped my energy, I’m now trying to be far more concise.

 

[LuCiver]

Looking good so far. I would let Sal live at least until he builds a Hindu shrine for you. His capitol is alone on your continent so will be easy to take since he will not be able to reinforce quickly. Maybe even wait for Feudalism: Take his capitol and vassal him.

Finish scouting around Sal's island. Possible it leads to other civs? You can check your espionage ratio on him to see if he has made contact with anyone else ( ratio should be about equal if you are the only one he knows).

Teching will be slow if you don't have any other neighbors. If you can't reach anyone past Sal's island I might push towards optics.

 

[Silu]

Teching will be slow if you don't have any other neighbors. If you can't reach anyone past Sal's island I might push towards optics.

Yeah this was what I was thinking about. If you want to be fancy you could even aim for an Astronomy beeline while you're at it by skipping Civil Service and bulbing Astro with 2 GSs for trade routes (you have a lot of cities). Otherwise good ole slowresearch to Optics after Civil Service and bulbing Philo and Edu with 3 GS should set you up for life.

 

[learner gamer]

Great ideas...will also need to tech (or bulb) alpha as well IIRC. To help me get my head around the tech path and how it fits in with wonder building, does anyone know a thread or post that mentions the dates by which the wonders go at different levels? It might be a little more accurate than the records I’ve put together from mine and other forum posted games.

 

[Copterman]

Here's the 4000 BC file.

 

[learner gamer]

Thanks very much for the save Copterman!

 

[Copterman]

I was away for the Thanksgiving holidays and haven't done a round in a few weeks. I'll be able to this weekend.