My most humble Noble Walkthrough

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Apr 8, 2009
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I've been seeing a lot of people complaining how hard it is to win on Noble these days and thought I could give something back to these forums that have helped me a lot. I don't claim I'm a great player or something - I recently moved up to Immortal but I'm not being able to play as well on that level. The idea of this thread is to try to be as detailed as possible in order to help players become more aware of some decisions that they have to take from time to time.

I started a random Fractal map on Normal speed. Based on the results of the poll I posted on the General Discussions subforum, I see most people prefer playing on Epic, but that's a speed I usually feel a little lost on and Marathon plays very different than the rest of the games so I stuck with Normal.

I chose a random leader because I think that, although we have our favorite leaders (Louis XIV, I'm talking to you), we should be able to at least play the map with any of them.

So these are the settings:
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The leader (turns out I got lucky):
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And the start:
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There's not much to think: I settle in place and start building a worker. As I have Pig in my capital's BFC, I decide to research Animal Husbandry as my first tech. Some turns later, our neighbor appears.
Spoiler :
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Hmm. Suryavarman is an unstable leader to have as a neighbor. Although he gets to friendly real quick when you share his religion and run Organized Religion, he's dangerous. Anything you refuse to him gives you a -2 diplomatic penalty and, more times than I would like, he switched to Free Religion in the mid-game and became a really pain. Besides, he can start planning a war against you when he's pleased so it's hard to be really safe around this guy.

I finished researching Animal Husbandry and started on Mining because of the Gold we also have in the BFC. This is something very important and is often the reason why many people are out expanded by the AI in the early game: always prioritize food. Take a look at how my capital looked like after I finished pasturing the Pigs.
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If I had started building a mine on that gold, I would be researching much faster at this moment, but I would not be growing, I would be stagnated. Now that I have a surplus of 5:food:, I can work the gold when I grow to size 2 and still keep growing. Oh, have you noticed that I have a source of horses in my BFC? That makes me decide that Sury has to go and that I have what it takes to dispatch him.

After I finished building the worker I started to build a Barracks. This was not necessary and I don't always recomend that. I did it because Chariots have a low base strength so they die easy when attacking Archers in a city. After researching Mining, I researched Bronze Working to be able to chop the forests. I didn't switch to Slavery at that time because I wouldn't have the need to whip anything. Then I researched Pottery and Writing. I could have researched Writing directly because I already knew Animal Husbandry, but a mine of gold only goes so far and it's necessary to generate :commerce: to support an empire, especially when you are about to make a big expansion.

Well, now I had a plan and, because of that plan, it was no longer necessary to keep exploring all the surroundings with my initial Warrior. I sent him to find the Khmer lands and check if they were close enough to be rushed. Another important thing to check was whether they had military resources or not. They had.
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Good! As they had Horses, they wouldn't have Copper and no Spears to put a stop to my Chariots.

Well, the Khmer were close enough to be rushed, but not so close that it would be enough to just take their capital and go from there. A long road from Istanbul until Yasodharapura would be a dangerous place for my workers and settlers so it would be good to place a city between the capitals to work as a link. I decided a spot and sent my warriors there to prevent the spawning of barbarians in that area.
Spoiler :
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I actually settled the city 1N from where I marked it.

Going back to the builds in the capital. After I finished the Barracks I built two warriors then a settler. Only when I settled Edirne that I switched to Slavery. We discovered Writing and started on Alphabet. Wait, what? I was planning to kill the only AI I knew and started to research Alphabet? Yes, because Alphabet has two advantages: it allows me to build Research in my cities, which is useful when you either don't have anything else to build or are not generating enough commerce to research and also because it is a pre-requisite of Currency, which is what I researched when Alphabet was done.

I had two workers at that time. One of them was building a road to Edirne and the other was chopping the forests in Istanbul. I built 5 Chariots and started to build a settler. In Edirne my first build was a Monument that I whipped as soon as it grew to size 2 and then another Chariot. I sent my soldiers to their border. I was a little concerned because Suryavarman had been running Slavery for quite some time and I was afraid he could be building a bunch of Settlers and Archers and that he would have connected some source of copper, but he wasn't doing any of that. Two turns before the invasion I was informed of what he had been doing.
Spoiler :
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Let that be a lesson to everyone: only build wonders when you're confident you can handle whatever is thrown at you or after you've secured a nice chunk of land for your empire. Well, that's a lesson Suryavarman never learned because that's what he had protecting his capital, that of course fell.
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He had another city too, guarded by a Warrior.
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I razed that city because I didn't want to have extra maintenance and because I wanted it 1SE to be able to work the copper. Now I had all the time in the world to settle my cities wherever I wanted. It was the moment to start increasing my commerce. Until then I was worried about production, but now I would have to support a growing empire. The next city I founded was perfect for that matter.
Spoiler :
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It will work the cottages in the tiles it shares with Istanbul until the capital can take them over and get them multiplied when I switch to Bureaucracy. Istanbul was still growing (pigs, remember?) and the BUG Mod informed me it would become unhappy if it grew.
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I had some choices. I could click the Avoid Growth button (some players don't like to use it, but I use it very often and think that sometimes it's the best choice), I could whip the Library or I could switch the tiles I was working. Another thing that could be done was to change the production to a worker or a settler and whip it the next turn. I didn't do that because I didn't think about it. I didn't want to whip the Library because the city would grow back before the unhappiness wore off and I was able to switch the tiles to prevent growth.
Spoiler :
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As you're seeing, I was working unimproved tiles and that's something you should try to avoid at all times, but I just didn't have enough workers and the extra population would be transfered from their idyllic lives in the forests to the harsh reality of the Library once it was done, which is what happened.
Spoiler :
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Now, this is not the best set-up for running scientists. I now have a cottage I won't be working, but that's alright because Suleiman is Philosophical and the Great Scientist will be born soon, allowing me to start growing my cottages there for good.

When Currency was in, I went to the next economic tech: Code of Laws. After researching it, I would be missing only two of the early game economic techs: Sailing (not very necessary here) and Monarchy (very necessary). I managed to found Confucianism in Yasodharapura. A brief note about religions: 99% of the time, you're better off avoiding the early religions and focusing on the economy first. That's the same principle that applies to the wonders. I immediately converted and set research to Aesthetics.
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I had a Settler on his way to found the city of Konya so I used the free Missionary to be able to skip a Monument there.
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Two turns before finishing the research of the mysteries of art, we were greeted by an odd man.
Spoiler :
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We're not doing bad at techs, despite our isolation. I chose not to do any tech trades with him because I don't know if he's also isolated and because I don't want to get closer to the WFYABTA limit. If he has neighbors, he could be someone's worst enemy especially because he only has three cities so trading with him could give me the "You traded with our Worst Enemy" penalty as the AI leaders like to keep a sorcerer in their courts to constantly watch whatever their worst enemies do and therefore are able to see them trading with us, even though they don't know of our existence. The WFYABTA limit is the short for "We Fear You Are Becoming Too Advanced", which is the excuse the AIs give when you've traded more than the limit of techs each leader has. It is ignored when they are friendly with you. For more information on that, check VoiceOfUnreason's article.

Hammurabi came from the NE.
Spoiler :
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Upon meeting him, I decided to research Sailing right after Aesthetics to be able to establish Trade Routes with Babylon. It's not going to work until we've found a clear way to their territory, but still. Foreign trade routes, especially intercontinental Trade Routes are more lucrative than domestic ones. They usually start giving you 2:commerce: instead of the 1:commerce: of the domestic TRs, which is further increased by Harbors. If you're interested on how Trade Routes work, check this thread. Then I started to research Literature to build the Great Library in Istanbul. I suggest building the Parthenon in another city, such as Yasodharapura and the GL and the National Epic in Istanbul. That way, you'll have an unending flow of Great Scientists to do whatever pleases you the most: bulbing techs up to Liberalism, settling them in Istanbul or building Academies all over the place.

I stopped at the turn 100, I'll play some more next weekend. The empire and the dot-map of the future cities are on the next post.

I hope this walkthrough can be helpful. I know I could have done it better, but after a while I got tired so my mind got a little numb. Sorry for that. :)
 

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Let's see what our capital looks like.
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It's starting to take form as a future Bureaucracy capital. You can't see it in the screenshot, but there is a worker building a cottage on the riverside grass 1N of the pig. When it's completed, the scientist will be decomissioned and will get a retirement fund in that dacha.
There are two things about the capital that I would like to highlight:
1- We already have an Academy. As Bureaucracy is the best civic for a long time in many games, the sooner you prepare your capital for it, the better. Oxford will be built here and this city will fund our research for a very long time.
2- See that some forests were saved? They're still up because I made the decision of building the Great Library in Istanbul early in the game and had no Marble handy and was able to finish the Khmer in a single strike. If it were necessary to make a two phase war with them, no forests would be up. Wonders are really good, but getting access to more land is the superior.

Alright, let's take a look at the cities we already have.
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Some comments:
1- Most cities have a single unit defending them or have none. It is not necessary to maintain a big army when you have no threats. Let's say I hadn't rushed Suryavarman. All the cities that were not on the border would be in the same situation as they are here. The border cities would have their defenses beefed up with 3 or 4 Axes and 1 or 2 Spears. When we research Monarchy and switch to Hereditary Rule, we should start building units to increase the happy cap. As I've already researched Hunting to get the happiness from the Ivory and became unable to build more warriors, I would suggest researching Archery because Archers are cheaper than Chariots.
2- This is something you'll be able to see in the dot-map as well: the cities were founded or will be founded following the food. A city with two desert hill gold mines is pretty useless if it doesn't have a fish, oasis, etc.
3- Overlap is not the devil. When planning your cities, you should think about what contribution they will give to the empire and not how far they are from each other.
4- Yasodharapura is building the Statue of Zeus. Only finish in two cases: you want a military victory so you'll have less War Weariness; you want a cultural win. Finish it and build the Parthenon and the National Epic there. Being Philosophical you'll swim in a Great Artists sea.
So why starting a wonder if you don't plan to finish it? It's not so important on Noble because the maintenance is not so bad, but it is a tactic employed by many good players to let you keep your science slider high. Build it until it's almost done then stop working on it and get a lot of money when someone else completes it. It helps.

Dot-Map of the future cities. (Two of them are in the screenshots of the last spoiler and I forgot to take a separate screenshot for the Sheep/Silver city south of Ankara - I'll later take a screenie for it).
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Code:
Red dots mean the next cities to be founded.
White dots mean cities that will be founded and will not take long to take off.
Yellow dots mean cities that will be founded only later in the game when the previous cities have become developed.

Please note that some parts of the continent haven't received dots yet. That's because I couldn't decide where the best placement would be. Leave such places to be settled after the rest. But do settle them. A foreign city in your continent usually only means bad things to you, like espionage and closed borders tension. Keep those leeches off your land.

Why are those two dots red instead of any others?

Well, the fishing village NE of Istanbul is there to deny that area to Hammurabi. He's already seen the land is available and might send a settler there soon. We wouldn't be able to prevent him from settling there by closing borders, which we can do in the rest of the cities.
The other one is red because it has Clams and Corn and because it has a nice riverside area covered by forests that can be worked without researching Iron Working. All the hammers from the chopping can be converted to new settlers, freeing other cities to work on whatever you want them to.

The white dots:
1- The invisible dot south of Ankara is there to claim the silver, improving the happy cap. The sheep lets it have some growth and it also has access to a nice riverside area to be cottaged.
2- The Copper/Pig/Clams/Wheat city west of Konya. Well, it has food galore, despite the brown terrain. It can even become the Heroic Epic city. After Civil Service, be sure to build farms there to irrigate the Wheat. It will be able to arm your empire.
3- The Horse/Riverside city on the west coast. Well, it's a riverside city. It will have a somewhat slow growth but it has potential to become either a great commerce city or a production powerhouse depending on the improvements. Not to be settled too soon.
4- The Marble/Pig city. Well, it has Marble and hills that allow it to become productive and the Pig plus a couple of farms grant it enough food to work cottages or workshops, depending on your objectives.
5- Corn/Horse city: production. Irrigate the Corn after Civil Service and build half of the invasion force there. Or you could build the National Park there. I wouldn't because I'd rather build it in:
6- Pig/Copper/Clam city. Lots of forests, food and production (build a workshop on the one-tile island). Can be your Langley, Virginia. (I have mixed feelings about a super espionage city. Although it's true that it's the best choice you have in the early game should you attempt to rely on espionage, it's also true that Scotland Yards are way more effective after your set of Espionage buildings is built).

Yellow dots:
1- Copper/Wine city. No food. Claims some resources and keeps the AIs out, but that's about it until Biology.
2- Riverside/Ivory town. It's a city with a lot of potential, but will take a while to become developed. Can be settled right after Iron Working if you like, but it's in the center of the empire so it's not in danger of being settled by the other civs. Could probably have been a White Dot.

Demographics:
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Too early to take many conclusions, but we're in a nice shape. On 100%:science: we make 97 beakers per turn so we have an economy.

Techs:
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Already mentioned this before. We're doing well on techs. But there's an interesting thing going on here: he's willing to trade most of his techs. Does it mean he know other civs? We're on par on espionage so I'm not sure.

One of the best moves to do now is to build a Workboat or a Galley and go find Babylon to check if Hammurabi is a lonely heart.



I'd appreciate any kind of comments here regarding this walkthrough. I've never done such a thing before and have no idea if it is helpful for the new players or if I missed important information. I welcome all the feedback and will edit the walkthrough to make it as helpful as possible.
 
Nice Noble walkthrough. Should help those struggling on this difficulty. One thing: Work boat scouts should really be prioritized on maps like this.
 
Nice Noble walkthrough. Should help those struggling on this difficulty.
Thank you very much. I hope it does help people.
One thing: Work boat scouts should really be prioritized on maps like this.
You're right and that's a problem I have. I hardly ever build WB scouts even knowing that I should. I'll try to do that more often. This suggestion has been added to the Walkthrough.
 
Very nice Ignorant Teacher, it's going to help me a lot.

And wow, you made an early rush and has that amount of research, I usually get around 60~80 at 1 AD.
 
All very informative. I like the practice of linking to other threads/articles that expand on subjects that are mentioned briefly. Makes for a much better general walkthrough than trying to explain everything yourself as it becomes less cluttered while being a source of more information.

We discovered Writing and started on Alphabet. Wait, what? I was planning to kill the only AI I knew and started to research Alphabet? Yes, because Alphabet has two advantages: it allows me to build Research in my cities, which is useful when you either don't have anything else to build or are not generating enough commerce to research and also because it is a pre-requisite of Currency, which is what I researched when Alphabet was done.

Alphabet can also be very useful to extort techs for peace from the target when he's down to 1 city. Can always finish him off 10 turns later.
 
I'm just learning noble myself. Walkthroughs like this are an excellent resource for learning the intricacies of the game. I appreciate what you are doing to help some of us move up the ladder. One question though, what was the purpose of learning aesthetics? Was this just so you could build the statue of Zeus, or is there more to it?
 
Nice effort in the walkthrough, but you should have regenerated when you saw that start. I would have gone for something much less powerful and much less room to expand. Ignorant Teacher, I would suggest you continue for at least a bit longer. There are more important lesson that can be learned such as managing diplomacy and how to REX and come out of it.
 
I'm just learning noble myself. Walkthroughs like this are an excellent resource for learning the intricacies of the game. I appreciate what you are doing to help some of us move up the ladder. One question though, what was the purpose of learning aesthetics? Was this just so you could build the statue of Zeus, or is there more to it?

On higher levels, it would be a trade chip, but on a level like noble, it's probably to build the Parthenon and the Great Library (esp with the amount of floodplains and Suleiman being philosophical).
 
And wow, you made an early rush and has that amount of research, I usually get around 60~80 at 1 AD.
Cottages!

Alphabet can also be very useful to extort techs for peace from the target when he's down to 1 city. Can always finish him off 10 turns later.
I see people doing that all the time, but the AIs are never willing to give me techs when I try it. :sad:

One question though, what was the purpose of learning aesthetics? Was this just so you could build the statue of Zeus, or is there more to it?
I researched Aesthetics because I wanted to build the Great Library and use the scientists to power my research. In the 3rd post you'll see that I only recommend completing the Statue of Zeus if you want to win culture or some military way.

Nice effort in the walkthrough, but you should have regenerated when you saw that start. I would have gone for something much less powerful and much less room to expand.
To be honest, I didn't think of regenerating because of the start. Although I don't always get such nice starts, I get them often enough to grant their place in a walkthrough. I tried to run some tests a few days ago regarding workers and two of the three starts I got were similar to this one.

I didn't open the World Builder at the start of the game so I didn't know the continent was so big. Besides, what if Suryavarman had copper in his BFC and a couple of Spears? I would be unable to rush him and he would have all that area for himself.

On a side note: I've read the walkthrough again and saw that I made a couple of grammatical mistakes and chose some wrong verbs. I'll review the text tomorrow.
 
Ignorant Teacher, I would suggest you continue for at least a bit longer. There are more important lesson that can be learned such as managing diplomacy and how to REX and come out of it.

I can continue it, no problem. It will have to wait for a while because this is very time consuming and I don't have enough time on the week. Part 2 will come next weekend.
 
Very nice walk thru IT.

I am not sure about the minimising growth point tho: I would probably have popped a worker/settler in the que before the library the turn after the city grew. You could then have wipped the settler/worker out the turn after (for -3 population) and then grown back slowly.

I accept that I could easily be wrong about this being a better/more eficient strategy.
 
Very nice walk thru IT.
Thanks a lot.

I am not sure about the minimising growth point tho: I would probably have popped a worker/settler in the que before the library the turn after the city grew. You could then have wipped the settler/worker out the turn after (for -3 population) and then grown back slowly.

I accept that I could easily be wrong about this being a better/more eficient strategy.

A settler or a worker then could have been a good idea. I didn't do it because it didn't occur to me. Thanks for the tip! :goodjob:

Edit: The walkthrough has been updated with your suggestion.
 
Good work IT, one thing that bugged me hugely when good players post walkthroughs is "i'm not going to finish as the game is won"
Yes the game is won for you and other people playing at your level, However, it is nowhere near finished for the noble level player. Anyhows, good effort.
 
Excellent work! By providing the rationale for the decisions that you make and explaining the consequences of them you will materially aid those struggling with Noble. I also appreciate the fact that you link out at points to relevant threads and articles.
You might consider including a short list of other recommended threads and articles at the end of your guide.
 
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