[BTS] My Very First Deity Shadow Game Ever! It's finally time...(Re-Roll Edition)

[Fippy]

Very true, improving Rice first is crappy with AH.

 

[CGQ]

Wait, wait, don't go ! There's more !

If you wanna go AH first and need to shave a turn of research,

Spoiler :

Then you should use the first 6 turns to work 2F1H1C, because you're then doing 10C per turn, which divides nicely.
On turn 5, when you select your tech, you will unleash 50 beakers into the pool with a whopping 40% increase due to discounts
If you were to do it the other way (work 2F1H1C last), then you would only unleash 45 beakers into the pool, which does not divide nicely

This is it, right there ! I give it to you ! Due to rounding, when you overflow into your next tech, this amounts to a whole single extra beaker !
Has there ever been a better bargain ? Tell me, I ask you !

(Yes, this is quite incidental ; timing the worker with AH is a good idea, otoh.)

If you're unsure about your tech, you should, however, maximize production during the first 5 turns.

Spoiler Played to Turn 11 :

Settled on the 'Phants:

Turn 1 and we already meet our first AI...

He may not be aggressive but he grows like a weed....

Makin' great use of that Deity settler I see Joao!

Turn 11: We meet Sitting Bull:

Here's the state of empire at Turn 11:

Worker is in and on top of pigs. AH is coming next turn so timing is perfect. Cap will work 3F Rice for now to grow and make 2nd warrior. How's this looking so far?

 

[Fippy]

Looks fine, good timing on AH (with BiC's help ).
I clicked next turn so we know if you have horsies

Spoiler :

they are 1w of pigs
That makes everything much easier. Wheel before the expensive mining + BW could make sense now.

(open spoiler if you want to discuss techs)

 

[jnebbe]

When would you chooses to go HAs over elephants? I would pick elephants every time if I had to pick. Looks like there’s enough room for 4/5 cities if you grab the cow by joao first. Ikkandas will help with teaching to con fast and you could also failgold pyramids. So what advantage would HAs have here?

 

[sampsa]

When would you chooses to go HAs over elephants?

I'd say very close to 100% of the time. More cities, faster is just so much better.

 

[CGQ]

Looks fine, good timing on AH (with BiC's help ).
I clicked next turn so we know if you have horsies

Spoiler :

they are 1w of pigs
That makes everything much easier. Wheel before the expensive mining + BW could make sense now.

(open spoiler if you want to discuss techs)

Thank you everyone for the advice

Spoiler Played to Turn 22 :

I start teching The Wheel, AH comes out and worker improves cows.

Turn 16: We meet our next AI Vicky:

I know that "food is king" but since the horses are right next to the workers would it make sense to improve them then the rice? From a Deity standpoint I figure the barb defense would help but then again I'd need roads to hook them up anyways...

Decided to improve rice first. Won't be able to use horses anyways 'till I get TW and "Food is king!"

Turn 21 TW arrives. Turn 22, 1st warrior kills barb archer and worker finishes dry rice. Cap switches to settler and worker will head on over to horse to improve them then build road to them and ultimately the 1st city:

I'm not sure if I should've finished the 2nd warrior then switched to settler. Next city could go 1S of cows and later on definitely a city maybe 1N1W of horses.

 

[Fippy]

Imo horsies are a better tile than improved dry rice here.
Maybe on BW beelines +1 food is better, but Ulundi isn't hurrying towards whipping.
You can plan this for yourself Screenie shows settler next, which tile gives more yield now?

 

[CGQ]

Imo horsies are a better tile than improved dry rice here.
Maybe on BW beelines +1 food is better, but Ulundi isn't hurrying towards whipping.
You can plan this for yourself Screenie shows settler next, which tile gives more yield now?

Spoiler Played to Turn 35 :

You were right. Horsies first is better. Now I can get my settler out like 5 turns sooner! Plus I was even able to get out an extra warrior! On that note, I will settle 2S of cows to take advantage of AH. Meanwhile worker will road to the new city spot while also hooking up horse and pigs while settler builds:

Ugh I know it's Deity but I'm sooo tempted to do it. Should I? Is it a good idea? He's right there just mocking me

Sorry I just couldn't resist

I mean this jack-o-doodle-do already has so many advantages, surely he'll willing to help a fellow civ out!

I either made a very good move or the stupidest mistake of my empire's life. Guess we'll see in a matter of time...

Turn 28: Mining arrives. Our "Stolen" worker makes into our burgeoning nation:

Our 2nd warrior keeps a lookout in case our pal Joao decides to try something on us. Now our next objective is to make peace and cheer him up after stealing his precious little worker:

Our new worker will help finish the road to our 1st city. It works out perfect! Then they will both improve cows and rice in that order.


Ugh. Our workers weren't able to build the road all the way in time so it'll cost us 1 turn. No big deal but still. Cap and second city will build chariots for barbs and hopefully to protect against Joao:

Yuh he's pretty pissed...

I'm not one to make enemies but then again, I am a ruthless raging warmonger in this game so I might as well stay in character...

ummm...

Then again...

Maybe that wasn't my best of ideas.

Is this salvageable or is it "reload time"? I take it I may be screwed here lol.

[/S1POILER]

 

[Nick723]

Well learning Deity is about failing fast…This shows the dangers of messing around with things like worker steal!

Technically probably still salvageable (at least for a while) but I don’t think it’s worth it. I would reload before the worker steal.

 

[sampsa]

I wouldn't recommend worker stealing on deity without some woodsmanII-dude or access to higher strength units. Without them it's hard to sue for peace. Though perhaps if you can settle a hilled city and have archers.

Looking at the screenshots, I'd try to find a different timing for starting a settler. Having all that in the bar is iffy. Try to either have close to zero in the bar or grow to 3. Former requires you to possibly work different tiles after worker is out. Do some calculations and you'll get a hang of it.

 

[Nick723]

Also another minor thing: don’t Road the pigs (already on the river). Road the forest north or south, saves a turn later when chopping.

 

[CGQ]

I wouldn't recommend worker stealing on deity without some woodsmanII-dude or access to higher strength units. Without them it's hard to sue for peace. Though perhaps if you can settle a hilled city and have archers.

Looking at the screenshots, I'd try to find a different timing for starting a settler. Having all that in the bar is iffy. Try to either have close to zero in the bar or grow to 3. Former requires you to possibly work different tiles after worker is out. Do some calculations and you'll get a hang of it.

Spoiler Replayed to Turn 36 :

Okay so far so good, went back and reloaded and this time let Joao keep his worker. I mean, why settle for just his worker, when I can have his WHOLE EMPIRE

This time I started building settler upon reaching size 2. This got my 2nd city settled about 3 turns sooner! Thanks for the tip Sampsa!

After 1st settler I switched to 2nd worker. Then after worker I built chariot. 2nd worker finished road to 1st city then went over to improve 'phants. After 1st worker finished cows he went on to improve rice.

Yikes Joao II has FOUR cities now! We need to get those HA's up and running ASAP. What do you guys suggest now?

I'm thinking to grow to size 3 then chop 2nd settler and settle at 1N1W of horse. (Granted I'd need fishing to make use of that spot, unless there's a better spot.)
I think 3 cities should be plenty for a HA rush given how many forests we have here.

After BW maybe Pottery for cottages then Writing or go straight to HB Riding after pottery? We can whip too since we have a bit of extra happiness from the 'Phants too so maybe one whip per city.

 

[Fippy]

Not your fault cos we are late with advice, but i am sceptical about BW now that i looked at everything.
What can we actually whip or chop now for a 3-city HA rush. No granaries or libraries yet, only 1 more settler needed.
There aren't many green rivers open before chopping, but 2 cottages would already help imo.
So i think fishing - pottery first could have been better, maybe something to consider for future games.

Back to where we are, fishing + pottery after BW is set in stone. Cheap granaries & making use of some river tiles.
Take fishing first, makes pottery a bit cheaper and needed anyways for city 3.

I guess writing pays off before HBR.
Can use Joao for foreign traderoutes, and Ulundi with a granary should be able to get a library fast.
But it's not that clear, maybe pause before going there.

 

[CGQ]

Not your fault cos we are late with advice, but i am sceptical about BW now that i looked at everything.
What can we actually whip or chop now for a 3-city HA rush. No granaries or libraries yet, only 1 more settler needed.
There aren't many green rivers open before chopping, but 2 cottages would already help imo.
So i think fishing - pottery first could have been better, maybe something to consider for future games.

Back to where we are, fishing + pottery after BW is set in stone. Cheap granaries & making use of some river tiles.
Take fishing first, makes pottery a bit cheaper and needed anyways for city 3.

I guess writing pays off before HBR.
Can use Joao for foreign traderoutes, and Ulundi with a granary should be able to get a library fast.
But it's not that clear, maybe pause before going there.

Spoiler Played to Turn 49 :

Turn 40: BW is about to arrive. Made chariot then switched to settler at size 3. Will tech Fishing>Pottery after BW. 2nd Worker building mine, then will build Ikanda at size 3 after chariot. Worker just finished Rice and will chop settler next:

Settler arriving next turn, chops will go into new worker on 1st city:

Turn 46: Fishing arrives and our 2nd city is settled. Worker immediately begins chopping WB while the other finishes road to the city. We will build cottages as soon as Pottery arrives:

Eek! Looks like Joao already has writing! I opened borders with him and will build a road to him for trade routes soon (with the 3rd worker built right now in capital)

Turn 47:

Here we are today:

Not sure what to do with worker 1N of horses. He can't build cottage and I know I need to save some forests for HA rush later. Would be nice if we had pottery now to get a jump start on cottages. Other worker is building road to Joao in the meantime and I will use my chariot to scout his land shortly.

 

[Fippy]

Yup it's the small research hole when going BW early.
Unit costs are already at 2g/turn so no more warriors.

I think this situation asks for another city, Mgungu could build a settler.
And Ulundi Ikhanda after worker, switching to granary at pottery.

Just wondering where that city should go..with Cre it would be easy, 2w of floodplains for a plainscow.
I have no good ideas, maybe someone else does.

 

[Nick723]

Not particularly inspiring, but a city 1NE of the rice could be ok. Gets 5 forests and can shuffle rice and cow as and when needed.

 

[CGQ]

Not particularly inspiring, but a city 1NE of the rice could be ok. Gets 5 forests and can shuffle rice and cow as and when needed.

Not a bad idea. I'm pretty stuck right now on where to settle next so that might be the spot.

 

[CGQ]

Yup it's the small research hole when going BW early.
Unit costs are already at 2g/turn so no more warriors.

I think this situation asks for another city, Mgungu could build a settler.
And Ulundi Ikhanda after worker, switching to granary at pottery.

Just wondering where that city should go..with Cre it would be easy, 2w of floodplains for a plainscow.
I have no good ideas, maybe someone else does.

Spoiler Turn 53 :

Turn 53: Joao's culture takes an elephant from me...

Turn 53: Chopped 3rd settler. How's it looking so far?

I'm stuck on what to tech next and where to settle the next city. Writing>HA or just straight to HA? What about archery? Might take Nick's suggestion and settle 1NE of rice for forests which will help HA rush.

 

[Nick723]

Hard to tell from screenshots, but it looks as if worker management could be improved a little. Was that two workers chopping the same forest? Capital is short of improved tiles, can likely whip a worker 4->2 next.

Writing I think only if you consider maths bulb, which might not be a terrible idea with this many forests. In which case you want to have a size 6 city ready to whip a library as soon as writing is in. Definitely folks like @sampsa can advise on this, I am a bit inexperienced with these types of rushes

Also on HBR vs archery…I think in this case I might actually go HBR first. Capital with all those forests could go for a stable, I think, which can then be prepared in advance.

 

[sampsa]

For the next city what about the floodplain in the south (1S of fp, looking at the screenshot)? Farmed fp and some forests to chop, some decent tiles to cottage. The spot in the NE claims forest, but will drain your and I think is the most important thing now while getting HBR. edit: though maybe I'm overstating the difference. NE-spot can work one green river tile and some non-river green cottages.

I think capital can overflow to granary, switch to worker at size 4, whip next turn, then start growing on cottages towards size 6 working cottages. Nobamba maybe 1-pop worker with the help of a chop. That area needs a lot of cottages, fast.

In general, I wouldn't go writing without CRE or PHI when planning a HA-attack. Math bulb is just way too far away. You have nice river with a lot of green, EXP for faster granaries -> faster growth, plus one -resource is a nice boost as you can grow one extra size. That's easily enough to get a lot of value from green river tiles. Agree on HBR before archery, though probably no big deal. The correct amount of stables for me is usually 0-1 and I think here the amount of available forest points towards building a stable in capital. You will also have a number of chariots since with AGG and some high-tiles you soon run out of things to put into.

I think Joao is a great target for HA-rush. Doesn't build an insane amount of troops but builds a lot of cities, very quickly, which means that his forces are very spread out early. It's also very good that you can go for the capital first.