Nazi Infiltration of German Army

[Commodore]

So a few days ago some Nazi memorabilia was discovered in a German army barracks and now a nationwide search of all army barracks is underway in an attempt to root out any more Nazi memorabilia. This incident has occurred at a time when the German government has been growing increasingly concerned about Nazi and other Nazi-like groups infiltrating the nation's armed forces.

Here's a link to an article on the matter: http://www.newsweek.com/nazi-memora...rmy-barracks-prompts-nationwide-search-596114

Anyway, I've been seeing this story pop up a bit and I'm wondering just how serious of an issue this is in Germany? Is international media blowing this out of proportion? Or are there some real concerns and evidence to suggest Nazi-like groups are trying to infiltrate the German military?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

lol is my knee-jerk reaction.
"Infiltration" makes it sound like there is some kind of secret plot going on to take the army over. I assure you there is no indication for this.

Look, as you may know, Germany has a very troubled (or very moral, however you want to see it) relationship to patriotism as well as military pride. This creates a vacuum, because if you got a professional army of volunteers (which Germany does since only fairly recently), patriotism and military pride are key ingredients to the culture of such an army and those wishing to be a part of it.
So is it any surprise that you got soldiers joining who drew that sweet feel-good stuff from other sources? And that this source is Nazi Germany? Nope, and nope and nope. People into Nazi stuff are people into patriotism and military pride who are people who will disproportionally consider joining the army. Simple as that.
And because NAZIS now we all have to be shocked and fear the return of Hitler from the dead

The best remedy would IMO be to offer a modern German alternative version of patriotism and military pride. But the AfD is the only one who could offer that, and the AfD is evil (among other things, because it could offer that).

Some things which are normal in most nations are just evil over here. :shrug: So if you already have to be evil, why not go Nazi?

 

[Commodore]

lol is my knee-jerk reaction.
"Infiltration" makes it sound like there is some kind of secret plot going on to take the army over. I assure you there is no indication for this.

Look, as you may know, Germany has a very troubled (or very moral, however you want to see it) relationship to patriotism as well as military pride. This creates a vacuum, because if you got a professional army of volunteers (which Germany does since only fairly recently), patriotism and military pride are key ingredients to the culture of such an army and those wishing to be a part of it.
So is it any surprise that you got soldiers joining who drew that sweet feel-good stuff from other sources? And that this source is Nazi Germany? Nope, and nope and nope. People into Nazi stuff are people into patriotism and military pride who are people who will disproportionally consider joining the army. Simple as that.
And because NAZIS now we all have to be shocked and fear the return of Hitler from the dead

The best remedy would IMO be to offer a modern German alternative version of patriotism and military pride. But the AfD is the only one who could offer that, and the AfD is evil (among other things, because it could offer that).

Some things which are normal in most nations are just evil over here. :shrug: So if you already have to be evil, why not go Nazi?

So it sounds like the issue is similar to the issue the US has with street gangs encouraging their members to join the military for the training. I say similar in the sense that it's something the government and military are concerned about but not some critical issue worth panicking over.

Does that sound about right?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I think it is a larger problem than that, but not large enough to "panick". It just is also is a very foreseeable problem and most of all it is a problem closely connected to the general unresolved issue what kind of relationship Germany has to its army. The political class pushes for a large, modern and professional army, but without the cultural backing and also glorification usually accompanying such efforts. That is an unresolved contradiction.
When the army was mostly conscripts who were there to defend Germany against the red menace, those questions were not on the table yet. German high ideals for what it means to be a soldier in the new Germany, citizen in uniform and all that jazz, worked then. Now, that identity is strained by Germany wanting to be a more regular modern military might.

 

[Gigaz]

The original story that raised this issue if of corse the curious attempt of a right wing extremist Franco A. to pose as a Syrian refugee and commit an act of terrorism.
https://news.vice.com/story/one-ger...lot-stokes-fears-of-hidden-military-extremism


The German army cannot tolerate Nazi nostalgia for reasons that should be obvious to anyone. It seems like not everyone in the line of command has understood this. When clear hints of Franco A.'s views popped up, people failed to act and throw him out. In a wider context, this is not only a problem of the army, but a slow shift in how Germany treats right wing extremism. Since the AfD is somewhat established and the fight against "political correctness" is the talk of the town, madmen are much more likely to go unchallenged and grow more extreme over time. Another example would be pop singer-grown-lunatic Xavier Naidoo. Back in the days, such people might have gotten a much more appropriate response.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

The problem is that "Nazi nostalgia" seems to be equated with Wehrmacht nostalgia. And Wehrmacht nostalgia is IMO, at least also, a stand-in for a German army that is highly respected, rather than stigmatized and ridiculed as ours is. But sure, it can also be the marker of being a right-wing extremist.

 

[FriendlyFire]

You know how thin skinned the older Germany generation are to anything Nazi
As for the WW2 era memorabilia, as long as its not SS I dont see what the problem is ? This kind of crack down was expected because of the terrorist scare but collecting ww2 era Wehrmacht items is certainly not Nazi
If it were half of America would be in Gaol for being Nazis, God know how many Lugers, Mausers and MP40s made it back into the states and now in the hands of private collectors

 

[Ryika]

Can't say I follow German media, but a quick google search has brought to light a lot of German mainstream media articles that strike a similar tone.
None are calling it an "infiltration" though, and I can't find anything about "nazi-like groups", just individuals who own nazi-related stuff.

My conclusion from the limited research I've done: Yeah, it's a big deal in the public discourse because "omg nazis!", doesn't seem to be a wide-spread problem within the army though, especially given that some of the stuff that was found isn't actually explicit pro-Nazi stuff, but just Wehrmacht-related items.

Overall I'm not even surprised that people would have those items, after all, the Wehrmacht was most certainly one of the most iconic armies of recent history.

 

[Tahuti]

It's not unlikely to see some sort of revival of National Socialism somewhere in the future, when people have long forgotten the negative implications of its ideology being put to practice and is able to adapt to newly arisen political circumstances (such as, say, dropping antisemitism and claiming its a left-wing and Muslim thing). Even Germany will not be immune to that in the long run.

People are still blathering about how technologies such as the internet efface national boundaries. Problem is, airliners failed to do that as well. Why would it this time be different? Sad yet true.

 

[r16]

what's the surprise ? If there's an opening Nazism will return to Germany , not because all Germans are not people but demons but this is how stuff works . Everybody loves much that there is Ottomanism in this New Turkey because it fits the "norms" . Just don't forget that the curious case of Bundesnazism where these 2 guys and a gal killed 9 Turkish kebab sellers and a Greek because he was working in a kebab shop and they thought he was Turkish . When the guys were suicided the very head of the German Intelligence destroyed all the files that would prove every single murder was known to the authorities and like vetted by them . Nazism will return to everywhere and how annoying ı was when stated that it would take mere 6 months for the camps to open in any Western Country . It's just that people can not be sure if this the Armageddon or whatever .

 

[Kyriakos]

^I don't think they killed the greek cause they just thought he was turkish. There are many cases of greek people attacked by gangs of neo-nazis in Germany, though obviously not as many as with turkish people (but the turkish population in Germany is obviously a lot larger in the first place).

 

[r16]

well , the reporting here about the cases were intense and it's claimed it's in the official papers that they took him as a Turk as he was cutting meat . Because the German authoritites would be really interesting to present them as idiots in case something happened again .