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[BTS] NC 217: Lincoln the Liberator

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Tobiyogi, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi Prince

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    I wouldn't have expected her to plot at all, she seems so peaceful in most of the games. But maybe when she gets boxed in and does not like you enough, there is a danger. So certainly a good decision.
     
  2. gavenkoa

    gavenkoa Warlord

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    How is bad not to have full trading value?

    When you sell tech I assume you deal only with 1-2 or may be 3 civs, at the end of deals you get everything that possible is to gain at the point.

    I can imaging only one situation - you are interested in new techs, so you should trade with good researchers. Because they are good researchers they may be on the way to your tech and you won't get other juicy techs from them...
     
  3. elementoffear

    elementoffear Warlord

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    Sweet challange @Tobiyogi , is the wb save in the challange rar file NHNE?
     
  4. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    The problem arises if more AIs get the tech, that makes them even more likely to trade it around. In the specific situation just one AI had CoL, and noone else was teching toward it, that made me confident that there was no immediate rush to trade it away. I could hold out for a better situation.
     
  5. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi Prince

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    Yes, having already one tech that allows new civics should be enough. Huts can pop up BW or even Monarchy.
     
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  6. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler To T134 :

    So, comming back to the game I think the empire is abit weirdly set up, and I'm puzzled by why I haven't already done a GA with the music artist.
    I put a bulb into lib. Notice that Lizzy has guilds, maybe I can trade for that and get faster gunpowder?
    100% research into monotheism, so I get overflow into what I later desire.

    Change all cities to fill up their food bars as much as possible.

    T122 Kublai is willing to talk, so I can get machinery more or less for free. :) Paper+aestethics+100g gives me machinery.
    I start the GA and setup cities to work specialists all around the board.
    100% research into archery, to continue to roll over the overflow to next turn.
    I want guilds from Lizzy.
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG


    T124 Guilds+40g for music+philosophy with Lizzy. She doesn't seem to have any beakers into education, so this feels somewhat safe.

    T125, didn't understand what happend here, and I still don't. All of the sudden everyone has engineering.
    I was hoping Lizzy wouldn't get it, as that would make it possible for me to get banking from her for engineering and boost GP-generation further with mercantilism.
    Oh well, litt+guilds with Kublai for Engineering.
    I
    Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG


    T126 I sell techs or loads of gold with Zara (Engi for 220g), Asoka (Compass for 290) and WvO (compass for 380g)

    T127
    Another thing I didn't really know about. As it's extremly seldom I build monesteries early enough for them to double their culture, but a regular monestery is 2culture, (7 with sistine), but with sistine, you get a monestery with 4+10=14 culture, abit weird.
    I will get rather heavy culture pressure with this, as I'm running alot of specialists too.

    I give WvO guilds for theo this turn (I want theocracy while spamming units soon) and Sully gets guilds for free just for diplo points as he is the only one lacking it.
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG

    T131 Asoka declares on sully, I trade gunpowder for banking with Lizzy. I note to my horror that she has almost finished education:
    I immediatly start the second GA with a scientist+merchant, set all specialists to scientists instead of merchants and build research everywhere, to reach chemistry in 2 turns.
    Civ4ScreenShot0017.JPG

    Lizzy finishes education. It's extremly likely that she is going economics as the AIs are completely crazy about that tech, and Lizzy has gold flavour too.
    I was probably in error to react in panic as I did, she is not getting lib in 2 turns and it's not likely that she would have done so in 3 turns either.
    Civ4ScreenShot0019.JPG
    Zara decides to gang up on Sully. Poor guy. :(
    This is nice, I want to go for Zara. Will have to keep eyes open for options to bribe peace between sully+asoka.
    I beg 1g from both asoka and sully here, to avoid "join the war"-requests.
    I don't do it with Zara as I'm unsure about the timing, don't want to have a peace treaty running on zara.
    Civ4ScreenShot0020.JPG

    I didn't finish trebs, but instead started to put hammers into other types of units too. Finishing the trebs would have allowed me to get cannons right away, but I have screwed up and have no units to accompany them, so that route makes little sense.

    From here, I spend 4 more turns pre-building units and finish some great people here and there while the GA is running.
    Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG

    I trade edu+banking for nationalism with Zara, who is my friend now.
    Still have the marble from Asoka, so I'm making a try for Taj.
    Civ4ScreenShot0024.JPG

    Empire overview at Steel.
    Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG

     
  7. gavenkoa

    gavenkoa Warlord

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    How do you check that?

    Espionage? Foreign advisor? During trade negotiation?
     
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  8. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler To T142 :

    I'm teching toward Mil/Sci, because I don't have my own horses, and noone has gone for printing press (It's often easy to get PP and replacable parts in trades).
    I want something strong in my stack and grenadiers do have funny hats.
    There was a AP vote to stop the war against Zara, I vote no because if it goes through I get a 10T peace treaty with Zara.
    I also get him out of the war this way, and I was hoping that would nullify the vote, but it didn't.
    This likely forces me to reevaluate my first target... WvO?
    Civ4ScreenShot0027.JPG
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    Time for civic swap, I do this trade to get free market too.
    Civ4ScreenShot0029.JPG
    500g is 500g.
    Civ4ScreenShot0030.JPG
    Not sure if it's right to go into slavery now, have kind of good production, but I'm starting to feel that I need to make my move quickly, Asoka is getting big and that might be a problem.
    Civ4ScreenShot0031.JPG
    Out of the blue, Zara is getting miltrad. Kind of dumb as he doesn't have horses. :)
    I don't mind though, sully is willing to trade horses for 24gpt and cuirs is always helpfull.
    Civ4ScreenShot0032.JPG
    I don't need the spare happines. Squeezed for health much more it seems.
    Civ4ScreenShot0033.JPG
    Now I realize I don't have HBR. :)
    WvO is plotting now, likely on Asoka which is his worst enemy. I have cash so I'm kind of thinking about just going right away. With readjustments I can reach HBR next turn and then whip some cuirs too.
    Civ4ScreenShot0034.JPG
    And the tech situation.
    After HBR, I think I'm just going to shut down the slider and wait for someone to trade me PP.
    Civ4ScreenShot0035.JPG


     
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  9. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    I put up education for trade, and ask what she is willing to trade for it. She isn't willing to give me anything, not even drama which is 500beakers (edu is 3000).
     
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  10. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

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    Woahhh!!! sub-620AD steel? How did you manage that?
     
  11. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler :

    I think the map script explain the speed somewhat. Forests everywhere and raw 3F1H tiles from all the deer.
    Also having two AIs at friendly and almost all AIs with a high WFYABTA-limit.

     
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  12. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T160 :

    Asoka is rolling over Sully.
    Paying him economics for peace.
    Civ4ScreenShot0037.JPG

    Found WvOs stack in Rotterdam, so I waited abit and got more units ready. Was hoping he would make a run for it since he was plotting to, but can't wait more now.
    Civ4ScreenShot0039.JPG

    Much smaller second stack from the other side where reinforcements can reach.
    Civ4ScreenShot0040.JPG

    Declared and moved toward the cities, was suprised that he attacked me on that hill, odds can hadly have been in his favour.
    Not that it would have been better for him to hole up in the city though. :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0041.JPG


    I just continue to trade. Constitution for mil-trad +500g with Lizzy T150.
    T151 MilSci for PP with Zara, and MilSci for corporation with Lizzy.
    Have two GMerch standing by at Asokas ToAr city, but continuing to stall research and hoping that I'll get replacable parts for free too.
    Taking things easy and slow with WvO, full bombardment. He aint going anywhere.*
    Hanging gardens in Rotterdam, nice.
    Civ4ScreenShot0048.JPG

    Complete with a market and grocer too, thanks for all that missionary spam Wilhelm. <3
    Civ4ScreenShot0049.JPG

    Did this swap now, all cities save capital are whipped to the ground and I need to recover.
    Going pacifism here was probably dumb though. Should have just taken 1 turn revolt with the swap to bur+caste, remaining in herarditrary rule and theocracy would probably have been best.
    Civ4ScreenShot0050.JPG

    Get a truckload of workers from wilhelm, not missing out on the opportunity to steal some forests in the intermediate turns when culture is FFA.
    Civ4ScreenShot0052.JPG


    T159 I trade steel for sci-meth with Lizzy. I want RP from Zara too so I can start sprinting toward rifling, but felt I could try to get that for SciMeth.
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

    Finish WvO.
    This war campaign has been quite insane. Lost 1 cannon. Here I suicide two cannons who got to his last city and then throw away some cuirs just to finish him quicker as rotterdam is dying from motherland anger.
    So, an empire for the price of 2 cannons and 2 cuirs. Quite a bargain. :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

     
  13. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T165 :

    My main idea is to start chewing away at Zara now, but taking a cheap shot on Asoka here first because he is getting huge, and my army is so close. Also, intermediate culture gives me quick access to his cities that will be a pain to reach otherwise due to his large culture.
    His entire SOD is in Bursa, and my hope was that it would start walking straight toward Zara, and that they would start trading units.

    I declare on Asoka first to lower the price to get Zara to join, but could not get him to join war AND rp at the same time without giving him both of my monopoly techs.
    I reload here too, because I forgot to cash in on my GMerch who where standing in Asokas culture. >_<
    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG


    Plan didn't work out, he send his SOD toward me, instead of toward Sakae.
    Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG

    Ceasefire after the two cities, phew. :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

    Moving army now, Zara is at rifling but with cuirs, cannons and CR3 maces upgraded to grenadiers thats no problem at all.
    Asoka has his insane stack close to Sakae, but he has one treb in the stack so it's likely that he will just stand there and bombard for 500 years.
    A few more turns and I should be in position to strike Zara. Debre Berhan is T0 accessable. Can reach Addis Ababa from Sullys culture T1 and Lalibela through X too.
    Cities are mostly just working food and trying to grow back from the whipfest. Would really like to do a GA and dip into nationalism for 5 turns to supplement the army with some drafted rifles, but I have only 2 Gsci and far from finishing any GPerson anywhere. :(
    Not getting any trades untill I either vassal Zara or swap into free religion to become friendly again with Lizzy.

    Kublai has been plotting for quite some time, but I demanded 50g tribute from him and the fist didn't go away, I think that indicates that it's not me he is eyeing but I'm not sure tribute demands work the same way as begs.
    Sully has just starting to plot too, likely Zara who is his worst enemy.
    Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG
    I like these loss statistics. :)
    Cuirs are very sweet, but there is such immense satisfaction to be had from weilding the unstoppable force of cannons against longbows.
    Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG
    Tech situation.
    Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG
     
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  14. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T170 :


    Yepp, Kublai declars on Zara.
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

    I try to get that gift city from earlier through AP, Lizzy defies. Does she get 5 unhappines even if she is in free religion? I guess she does, right?
    Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG

    Now you are just too genereous Zara... :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

    Now I declare, bombard down to 0%, and two CR3 grenadiers take his city guarded by 2 rifles, yummy!
    Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG

    It can usually be dangerous to split the stack like this, but since he is quite preoccupied I dare to do it.
    Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG

    Lizzy farms over financial towns. Hurting my eyes and soul. >_<
    Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG
    Some stray cavalry found the city I took from Asoka. :/
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG

    He seem to have been busy spreading christianity too, wonderful!
    Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG
    Asoka makes his move, but is unable to break through. If it where not for that healthy rifleman, I could perhaps have snagged that city, but now my cuirs move inwards instead. Don't think asoka will make progress here for a long time.
    The units selected are chipping away at the city I reached from Sullys culture, CR3 grenadiers, but to few of them.
    Civ4ScreenShot0013.JPG
     
  15. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T176 :


    Kublai has more success.
    Civ4ScreenShot0015.JPG

    I lose Lalibela, apparantly I was too greedy. Killing injured units and moving forward instead of securing my position.
    Civ4ScreenShot0016.JPG

    2 pop lower, and 3-4 buildings less. The price you pay for being clumsy.
    Civ4ScreenShot0017.JPG

    I get back that city in Asokas territory too, two cuirs that was nearby managed to kill the two injured cavalry which was guarding it at 80% odds or so.

    Here comes Sully! :D
    Definitely not Zaras day today.
    Civ4ScreenShot0018.JPG

    Rotterdam (With Hanging Gardens) flip to Zara. Grrr...
    I get a filler city Zara settled recently.
    Civ4ScreenShot0019.JPG

    I have some CR3 grenadiers, a CR3 rifle and some cuirs/cavalry that can reach rotterdam. But due to the cavalry standing there, my chances of getting it is very very low.
    Zara will capitulate but won't give me Rotterdam. :(
    Civ4ScreenShot0020.JPG

    Not even after I take his capital, he is willing to give up Rotterdam.
    Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG

    Why the angry face Zara? Not happy that I recue you from Asoka, Kublai and Sully? :D
    Civ4ScreenShot0022.JPG

    Exacly what I needed now, enmanciplation anger is starting to kick in.
    Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG

    The state of the world.
    Kublai got the majority of his stack trapped in Beshabalik up north. In a pair of turns I'll hit that with some thunder.
    Everyone is starting to hate me now, noone likes a bully I guess.
    Sully started to plot again the turn after Zaras capitulation, probably me but I don't see his stack anywhere.
    Civ4ScreenShot0024.JPG
     
  16. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T181 :

    Like shooting fish in a barrel.
    Civ4ScreenShot0025.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0027.JPG
    Lizzy decides to rack up 5 more unhappines. This must surely hurt her.
    Civ4ScreenShot0028.JPG

    Was trying to mop up his stray units, but had a couple of unlucky rolls, then I lose Aksum... I get it next turn again but annoying.
    Civ4ScreenShot0029.JPG

    I was leaving beshebalik empty so he would move what was left of his stack in there, but he put it in front of my army instead. First cannon wins at 30% odds, then a cuir loses at 99.X% odds. Zzzz.
    Civ4ScreenShot0030.JPG
    Ok, Sully stack which has been standing in Istanbul has now been moved to Konya. Expecting a DOW any second now. Not much I can do against that S.O.D though.
    Civ4ScreenShot0031.JPG
    I spawn a GProphet! Lovely. Saved one of my 2 scientists (one bulbed 2000beakers into Astro), now I just need a artist/Merch and I can run a GA.
    Civ4ScreenShot0032.JPG
    He was not willing to capitulate, so I slammed the capital with cannons, then killing one unit at the time and looking the trade screen after every unit. After about halfway through, he decided he had enough.
    I want as many of his units alive as possible, it will be helpfull against Sully soon.
    Gifting him steel+replacable parts right away. I'll probably give him rifling and alot of gold next turn so he can upgrade his units.
    Civ4ScreenShot0033.JPG

     
  17. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Prince

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    Regarding AP :mad:, as far as I know defying a resolution that would have failed anyway isn't any different than voting no. Only if a resolution would have passed does a defy cause it to fail anyway and give the defiers unhappiness for being considered a villain (and other stuff).
     
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  18. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T191 :


    I gifted Kublai rifling and 1500g for him to pick up speed.
    However, Sully is moving his stack back. Weird.
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

    T185 I declare, but hide my stack away and wait for him to come to me. (And for the vassals to start chewing him up.

    T186 I spawn a GEng, start GA and swap into nationalism and theocracy, swapping all cities to build cannons if they where building rifles.

    Sully doesn't come, so I move in.
    Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG

    He hits my stack hard, but enough cannons to cause max collateral to the units left in his city (The ones who stod outside was severely injured.)
    Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG

    Had to kill almost all his unit, but didn't have to take his capital before he sees reason. I'm desperatly trying to limp toward communism so I can swap to state property before the GA is done, and as a pleasant suprise sully is just one turn away from communism. :)
    I trade all my stuff for bio+communism next turn.
    Moving toward Elizabeth.
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG

    T0 Access, the gift city from the start of the game finally proves really usefull. :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG
    Not enough for Lizzy to capitulate though, she is stubborn it seems.
    Civ4ScreenShot0015.JPG

    Zaras boat got trapped, looks kind of cute there. :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0016.JPG


    T191 I swap into state property+vassalage, have been drafting 3 rifles each turn and moving all units everywhere is starting to become tedious.

    Oh, action! Lizzy gave him Physics to join in on the fun. :)
    Poor guy doesn't have steel and his catapults are looking abit off.
    Civ4ScreenShot0019.JPG
     
  19. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T201 Final :

    Ok, I lost Houston inbetween turns, and got it back. Looks weird. Is it that Zara liberated it to me right away? Is this common behaviour from the Vassals? Can't remember I have ever seen this before.
    Civ4ScreenShot0020.JPG

    Closing in on Lizzy.
    Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG

    Boom!
    Civ4ScreenShot0022.JPG
    Welcome onboard the team! :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG

    Seems like the vassals hammered Asoka inbetween turns, woo hoo! The world is mine!
    Civ4ScreenShot0024.JPG

    For good measure, I pressed "wait! Just one more turn..." and revolted to enmancipation. :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG

     
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  20. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Prince

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    I don't believe it's very common since it's just plain rare for vassals to conquer/liberate a city and gift/return it to you, but they can do so, yes.
     
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