[BTS] NC 217: Lincoln the Liberator

[Tobiyogi]

@Tobiyogi
She does plot at pleased, all these AIs do I think?

I wouldn't have expected her to plot at all, she seems so peaceful in most of the games. But maybe when she gets boxed in and does not like you enough, there is a danger. So certainly a good decision.

 

[gavenkoa]

Noone else seem to be teching CoL as I have full trading value for it.

How is bad not to have full trading value?

When you sell tech I assume you deal only with 1-2 or may be 3 civs, at the end of deals you get everything that possible is to gain at the point.

I can imaging only one situation - you are interested in new techs, so you should trade with good researchers. Because they are good researchers they may be on the way to your tech and you won't get other juicy techs from them...

 

[elementoffear]

Sweet challange @Tobiyogi , is the wb save in the challange rar file NHNE?

 

[krikav]

How is bad not to have full trading value?

When you sell tech I assume you deal only with 1-2 or may be 3 civs, at the end of deals you get everything that possible is to gain at the point.

I can imaging only one situation - you are interested in new techs, so you should trade with good researchers. Because they are good researchers they may be on the way to your tech and you won't get other juicy techs from them...

The problem arises if more AIs get the tech, that makes them even more likely to trade it around. In the specific situation just one AI had CoL, and noone else was teching toward it, that made me confident that there was no immediate rush to trade it away. I could hold out for a better situation.

 

[Tobiyogi]

Sweet challange @Tobiyogi , is the wb save in the challange rar file NHNE?

Yes, having already one tech that allows new civics should be enough. Huts can pop up BW or even Monarchy.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler To T134 :

So, comming back to the game I think the empire is abit weirdly set up, and I'm puzzled by why I haven't already done a GA with the music artist.
I put a bulb into lib. Notice that Lizzy has guilds, maybe I can trade for that and get faster gunpowder?
100% research into monotheism, so I get overflow into what I later desire.

Change all cities to fill up their food bars as much as possible.

T122 Kublai is willing to talk, so I can get machinery more or less for free. Paper+aestethics+100g gives me machinery.
I start the GA and setup cities to work specialists all around the board.
100% research into archery, to continue to roll over the overflow to next turn.
I want guilds from Lizzy.

T124 Guilds+40g for music+philosophy with Lizzy. She doesn't seem to have any beakers into education, so this feels somewhat safe.

T125, didn't understand what happend here, and I still don't. All of the sudden everyone has engineering.
I was hoping Lizzy wouldn't get it, as that would make it possible for me to get banking from her for engineering and boost GP-generation further with mercantilism.
Oh well, litt+guilds with Kublai for Engineering.
I

T126 I sell techs or loads of gold with Zara (Engi for 220g), Asoka (Compass for 290) and WvO (compass for 380g)

T127
Another thing I didn't really know about. As it's extremly seldom I build monesteries early enough for them to double their culture, but a regular monestery is 2culture, (7 with sistine), but with sistine, you get a monestery with 4+10=14 culture, abit weird.
I will get rather heavy culture pressure with this, as I'm running alot of specialists too.

I give WvO guilds for theo this turn (I want theocracy while spamming units soon) and Sully gets guilds for free just for diplo points as he is the only one lacking it.

T131 Asoka declares on sully, I trade gunpowder for banking with Lizzy. I note to my horror that she has almost finished education:
I immediatly start the second GA with a scientist+merchant, set all specialists to scientists instead of merchants and build research everywhere, to reach chemistry in 2 turns.

Lizzy finishes education. It's extremly likely that she is going economics as the AIs are completely crazy about that tech, and Lizzy has gold flavour too.
I was probably in error to react in panic as I did, she is not getting lib in 2 turns and it's not likely that she would have done so in 3 turns either.

Zara decides to gang up on Sully. Poor guy.
This is nice, I want to go for Zara. Will have to keep eyes open for options to bribe peace between sully+asoka.
I beg 1g from both asoka and sully here, to avoid "join the war"-requests.
I don't do it with Zara as I'm unsure about the timing, don't want to have a peace treaty running on zara.

I didn't finish trebs, but instead started to put hammers into other types of units too. Finishing the trebs would have allowed me to get cannons right away, but I have screwed up and have no units to accompany them, so that route makes little sense.

From here, I spend 4 more turns pre-building units and finish some great people here and there while the GA is running.

I trade edu+banking for nationalism with Zara, who is my friend now.
Still have the marble from Asoka, so I'm making a try for Taj.

Empire overview at Steel.

 

[gavenkoa]

She doesn't seem to have any beakers into education, so this feels somewhat safe.

How do you check that?

Espionage? Foreign advisor? During trade negotiation?

 

[krikav]

Spoiler To T142 :

I'm teching toward Mil/Sci, because I don't have my own horses, and noone has gone for printing press (It's often easy to get PP and replacable parts in trades).
I want something strong in my stack and grenadiers do have funny hats.
There was a AP vote to stop the war against Zara, I vote no because if it goes through I get a 10T peace treaty with Zara.
I also get him out of the war this way, and I was hoping that would nullify the vote, but it didn't.
This likely forces me to reevaluate my first target... WvO?

Time for civic swap, I do this trade to get free market too.

500g is 500g.

Not sure if it's right to go into slavery now, have kind of good production, but I'm starting to feel that I need to make my move quickly, Asoka is getting big and that might be a problem.

Out of the blue, Zara is getting miltrad. Kind of dumb as he doesn't have horses.
I don't mind though, sully is willing to trade horses for 24gpt and cuirs is always helpfull.

I don't need the spare happines. Squeezed for health much more it seems.

Now I realize I don't have HBR.
WvO is plotting now, likely on Asoka which is his worst enemy. I have cash so I'm kind of thinking about just going right away. With readjustments I can reach HBR next turn and then whip some cuirs too.

And the tech situation.
After HBR, I think I'm just going to shut down the slider and wait for someone to trade me PP.

 

[krikav]

How do you check that?
Espionage? Foreign advisor? During trade negotiation?

I put up education for trade, and ask what she is willing to trade for it. She isn't willing to give me anything, not even drama which is 500beakers (edu is 3000).

 

[Fish Man]

Spoiler To T142 :

I'm teching toward Mil/Sci, because I don't have my own horses, and noone has gone for printing press (It's often easy to get PP and replacable parts in trades).
I want something strong in my stack and grenadiers do have funny hats.
There was a AP vote to stop the war against Zara, I vote no because if it goes through I get a 10T peace treaty with Zara.
I also get him out of the war this way, and I was hoping that would nullify the vote, but it didn't.
This likely forces me to reevaluate my first target... WvO?
View attachment 539528
View attachment 539529
Time for civic swap, I do this trade to get free market too.
View attachment 539530
500g is 500g.
View attachment 539531
Not sure if it's right to go into slavery now, have kind of good production, but I'm starting to feel that I need to make my move quickly, Asoka is getting big and that might be a problem.
View attachment 539532
Out of the blue, Zara is getting miltrad. Kind of dumb as he doesn't have horses.
I don't mind though, sully is willing to trade horses for 24gpt and cuirs is always helpfull.
View attachment 539533
I don't need the spare happines. Squeezed for health much more it seems.
View attachment 539534
Now I realize I don't have HBR.
WvO is plotting now, likely on Asoka which is his worst enemy. I have cash so I'm kind of thinking about just going right away. With readjustments I can reach HBR next turn and then whip some cuirs too.
View attachment 539535
And the tech situation.
After HBR, I think I'm just going to shut down the slider and wait for someone to trade me PP.
View attachment 539536

Woahhh!!! sub-620AD steel? How did you manage that?

 

[krikav]

Woahhh!!! sub-620AD steel? How did you manage that?

Spoiler :

I think the map script explain the speed somewhat. Forests everywhere and raw 3F1H tiles from all the deer.
Also having two AIs at friendly and almost all AIs with a high WFYABTA-limit.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T160 :

Asoka is rolling over Sully.
Paying him economics for peace.

Found WvOs stack in Rotterdam, so I waited abit and got more units ready. Was hoping he would make a run for it since he was plotting to, but can't wait more now.

Much smaller second stack from the other side where reinforcements can reach.

Declared and moved toward the cities, was suprised that he attacked me on that hill, odds can hadly have been in his favour.
Not that it would have been better for him to hole up in the city though.

I just continue to trade. Constitution for mil-trad +500g with Lizzy T150.
T151 MilSci for PP with Zara, and MilSci for corporation with Lizzy.
Have two GMerch standing by at Asokas ToAr city, but continuing to stall research and hoping that I'll get replacable parts for free too.
Taking things easy and slow with WvO, full bombardment. He aint going anywhere.*
Hanging gardens in Rotterdam, nice.

Complete with a market and grocer too, thanks for all that missionary spam Wilhelm. <3

Did this swap now, all cities save capital are whipped to the ground and I need to recover.
Going pacifism here was probably dumb though. Should have just taken 1 turn revolt with the swap to bur+caste, remaining in herarditrary rule and theocracy would probably have been best.

Get a truckload of workers from wilhelm, not missing out on the opportunity to steal some forests in the intermediate turns when culture is FFA.

T159 I trade steel for sci-meth with Lizzy. I want RP from Zara too so I can start sprinting toward rifling, but felt I could try to get that for SciMeth.

Finish WvO.
This war campaign has been quite insane. Lost 1 cannon. Here I suicide two cannons who got to his last city and then throw away some cuirs just to finish him quicker as rotterdam is dying from motherland anger.
So, an empire for the price of 2 cannons and 2 cuirs. Quite a bargain.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T165 :

My main idea is to start chewing away at Zara now, but taking a cheap shot on Asoka here first because he is getting huge, and my army is so close. Also, intermediate culture gives me quick access to his cities that will be a pain to reach otherwise due to his large culture.
His entire SOD is in Bursa, and my hope was that it would start walking straight toward Zara, and that they would start trading units.

I declare on Asoka first to lower the price to get Zara to join, but could not get him to join war AND rp at the same time without giving him both of my monopoly techs.
I reload here too, because I forgot to cash in on my GMerch who where standing in Asokas culture. >_<

Plan didn't work out, he send his SOD toward me, instead of toward Sakae.

Ceasefire after the two cities, phew.

Moving army now, Zara is at rifling but with cuirs, cannons and CR3 maces upgraded to grenadiers thats no problem at all.
Asoka has his insane stack close to Sakae, but he has one treb in the stack so it's likely that he will just stand there and bombard for 500 years.
A few more turns and I should be in position to strike Zara. Debre Berhan is T0 accessable. Can reach Addis Ababa from Sullys culture T1 and Lalibela through X too.
Cities are mostly just working food and trying to grow back from the whipfest. Would really like to do a GA and dip into nationalism for 5 turns to supplement the army with some drafted rifles, but I have only 2 Gsci and far from finishing any GPerson anywhere.
Not getting any trades untill I either vassal Zara or swap into free religion to become friendly again with Lizzy.

Kublai has been plotting for quite some time, but I demanded 50g tribute from him and the fist didn't go away, I think that indicates that it's not me he is eyeing but I'm not sure tribute demands work the same way as begs.
Sully has just starting to plot too, likely Zara who is his worst enemy.

I like these loss statistics.
Cuirs are very sweet, but there is such immense satisfaction to be had from weilding the unstoppable force of cannons against longbows.

Tech situation.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T170 :

Yepp, Kublai declars on Zara.

I try to get that gift city from earlier through AP, Lizzy defies. Does she get 5 unhappines even if she is in free religion? I guess she does, right?

Now you are just too genereous Zara...

Now I declare, bombard down to 0%, and two CR3 grenadiers take his city guarded by 2 rifles, yummy!

It can usually be dangerous to split the stack like this, but since he is quite preoccupied I dare to do it.

Lizzy farms over financial towns. Hurting my eyes and soul. >_<

Some stray cavalry found the city I took from Asoka. :/

He seem to have been busy spreading christianity too, wonderful!

Asoka makes his move, but is unable to break through. If it where not for that healthy rifleman, I could perhaps have snagged that city, but now my cuirs move inwards instead. Don't think asoka will make progress here for a long time.
The units selected are chipping away at the city I reached from Sullys culture, CR3 grenadiers, but to few of them.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T176 :

Kublai has more success.

I lose Lalibela, apparantly I was too greedy. Killing injured units and moving forward instead of securing my position.

2 pop lower, and 3-4 buildings less. The price you pay for being clumsy.

I get back that city in Asokas territory too, two cuirs that was nearby managed to kill the two injured cavalry which was guarding it at 80% odds or so.

Here comes Sully!
Definitely not Zaras day today.

Rotterdam (With Hanging Gardens) flip to Zara. Grrr...
I get a filler city Zara settled recently.

I have some CR3 grenadiers, a CR3 rifle and some cuirs/cavalry that can reach rotterdam. But due to the cavalry standing there, my chances of getting it is very very low.
Zara will capitulate but won't give me Rotterdam.

Not even after I take his capital, he is willing to give up Rotterdam.

Why the angry face Zara? Not happy that I recue you from Asoka, Kublai and Sully?

Exacly what I needed now, enmanciplation anger is starting to kick in.

The state of the world.
Kublai got the majority of his stack trapped in Beshabalik up north. In a pair of turns I'll hit that with some thunder.
Everyone is starting to hate me now, noone likes a bully I guess.
Sully started to plot again the turn after Zaras capitulation, probably me but I don't see his stack anywhere.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T181 :

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

Lizzy decides to rack up 5 more unhappines. This must surely hurt her.

Was trying to mop up his stray units, but had a couple of unlucky rolls, then I lose Aksum... I get it next turn again but annoying.

I was leaving beshebalik empty so he would move what was left of his stack in there, but he put it in front of my army instead. First cannon wins at 30% odds, then a cuir loses at 99.X% odds. Zzzz.

Ok, Sully stack which has been standing in Istanbul has now been moved to Konya. Expecting a DOW any second now. Not much I can do against that S.O.D though.

I spawn a GProphet! Lovely. Saved one of my 2 scientists (one bulbed 2000beakers into Astro), now I just need a artist/Merch and I can run a GA.

He was not willing to capitulate, so I slammed the capital with cannons, then killing one unit at the time and looking the trade screen after every unit. After about halfway through, he decided he had enough.
I want as many of his units alive as possible, it will be helpfull against Sully soon.
Gifting him steel+replacable parts right away. I'll probably give him rifling and alot of gold next turn so he can upgrade his units.

 

[AcaMetis]

Regarding AP , as far as I know defying a resolution that would have failed anyway isn't any different than voting no. Only if a resolution would have passed does a defy cause it to fail anyway and give the defiers unhappiness for being considered a villain (and other stuff).

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T191 :

I gifted Kublai rifling and 1500g for him to pick up speed.
However, Sully is moving his stack back. Weird.

T185 I declare, but hide my stack away and wait for him to come to me. (And for the vassals to start chewing him up.

T186 I spawn a GEng, start GA and swap into nationalism and theocracy, swapping all cities to build cannons if they where building rifles.

Sully doesn't come, so I move in.

He hits my stack hard, but enough cannons to cause max collateral to the units left in his city (The ones who stod outside was severely injured.)

Had to kill almost all his unit, but didn't have to take his capital before he sees reason. I'm desperatly trying to limp toward communism so I can swap to state property before the GA is done, and as a pleasant suprise sully is just one turn away from communism.
I trade all my stuff for bio+communism next turn.
Moving toward Elizabeth.

T0 Access, the gift city from the start of the game finally proves really usefull.

Not enough for Lizzy to capitulate though, she is stubborn it seems.

Zaras boat got trapped, looks kind of cute there.

T191 I swap into state property+vassalage, have been drafting 3 rifles each turn and moving all units everywhere is starting to become tedious.

Oh, action! Lizzy gave him Physics to join in on the fun.
Poor guy doesn't have steel and his catapults are looking abit off.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T201 Final :

Ok, I lost Houston inbetween turns, and got it back. Looks weird. Is it that Zara liberated it to me right away? Is this common behaviour from the Vassals? Can't remember I have ever seen this before.

Closing in on Lizzy.

Boom!

Welcome onboard the team!

Seems like the vassals hammered Asoka inbetween turns, woo hoo! The world is mine!

For good measure, I pressed "wait! Just one more turn..." and revolted to enmancipation.

 

[AcaMetis]

I don't believe it's very common since it's just plain rare for vassals to conquer/liberate a city and gift/return it to you, but they can do so, yes.