[BTS] Need Help on Monarch

After Lymond (which you'll finish in two turns, no problem), Noble Zarkon is your slow-step GP generator. There's a little tile optimization you can do here which is probably worth the effort. Getting NZ to 800 from its current 639 will require 161 more GPP; at 9/specialist/turn, that's 18 specialist-turns. 3 turns at 4 specialists and 2 turns at 3 specialists. The challenge is that with your current tiles, it will not have enough food for that - so either it would lose a pop due to starvation, or you'd need to take an extra turn getting the GP from NZ and Fippy; delaying them both a turn might even end up delaying your attack a turn.

But juggling tiles with Sampsa, it can run coast + fish + 2x floodplains cottage + 3x merchant for 1 turn (+1 food, 3 stored), coast + 2x floodplains cottage + fish + 4x merchant for 3 turns (-1 food each, 0 stored), and 2x coast + floodplains cottage + fish + 2x coast + 3x specialist for 1 turn (food-neutral). Getting it to 801/800 GPP in five turns. That unfortunately means Sampsa has to give up the second floodplains for 4 turns. Which means Sampsa needs to steal a farm from Krikav for four turns, which means Krikav needs to steal the pigs from Thebes for one turn. Which Thebes is fine with; it has enough stored food to survive a turn without those pigs.

After Noble Zarkon's GP in 5 turns (turn 169), you can easily get Fippy's in 7 turns (turn 171). If a Great Merchant, that guy can be doing a trade mission in Kish by turn 173; your current GM from Krikav should be in Rome turn 172 or so.

Side note: there's a micro trick you can use which you may or may not already know. If you select your Great Merchant, hold down Shift and give a move command to a target city, then (still holding down shift) mouse-over the Conduct Trade Mission ability, you'll see how much gold you'd get from the trade mission. From that you can see that Rome is worth 1700 gold, Kish is worth 1500, and a quick check on other big coastal cities like Lagash confirms none of them are going to do better than 1500. Then you just cancel the move order before releasing Shift.​

So I think turn 173 is the turn you'll be done spiking upwards in gold, and will make a wave of upgrades. 1700 gold from the Rome Great Merchant means worst-case, if you get no additional Great Merchants, you'd need 1660 more gold to upgrade all your chariots and horse archers. 0% gold slider would get you there in time; if you're lucky enough to pop more Great Merchants, you'll be able to turn back on research sooner and push along towards Rifling.

Second side note: Tech trades are generally a very, very good thing for the human player. But in this case you're moving into a mopping up phase. The value of additional gold or tech to you is fairly limited from here on out (you've got your really important key techs), and the AIs are backwards enough that whatever they get from you is practically the primary source of research for the whole world and you won't need help from tech trades to stay comfortably ahead of them the rest of the game. I would simply stop tech trading at this point; it will meaningfully slow down AI research and help ensure their military tech is slower to progress. This isn't a habit to get into for future games, just something I'd do in this particular game because you're so far ahead and are looking to make the wrap-up go more smoothly.​

You ought to be able to attack Zara Yaqob on turn 174; you'll have about two dozen Cuirassiers at that point. 10 turns from now. So do not make any deals (like begging gold) that would enforce a 10-turn peace treaty with Zara Yaqob after this point. If you invade his territory on turn 174, you'll be attacking Aksum on turn 177. Which means you want the spies stationary in Aksum on turn 172 to build up the 5-turn stationary spy bonus, so you want to start moving them out of your territory on turn 168. I think Fippy's current spy build will finish just in time to barely make it.

Edit: Also, Sampsa needs to hop on that plains-hill and even the desert hill instead of merchant specs now. I know you got no end of complaints for working it earlier; times have changed. It's not going to make a Great Person, and hammers are more important than gold at this point. And now that I look at what your workers are doing, stop replacing mature cottage villages and towns with workshops. The time for that has not come yet; just any new-built improvements right now should not be cottages because they won't grow fast enough, but losing a town tile to get a non-Guilds, non-Chemistry, non-State-Property workshop is not a good trade.

You could put workshops south of Lymond on the plains, a mine on the desert hill by Sampsa, a mine on the desert hill by Krikav, a mine on the desert hill by Noble Zarkon, mines on the tundra hill by Jnebbe, a workshop north of Fippy; these would all be productive things for your workers to do now.
 
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I think NZ should pop it's GP next actually, then Lymo, then My City.

NZ will pop guy in 2 turns regardless of having to drop a merchant next turn.

Lymo config is fine this turn.

My City - not sure what you are doing here, but get those merchants back running. Every citizen but pig/clam/horse should be a merchant. Adjust city next turn. (as I've mentioned, keep GPP max just enough to keep all gpp cities close as possible to each other)

yep, Sampsa can focus on hammers now. May have had some potential if focused on gpp earlier, but might as well run PH and probably use an engineer instead.

(Lymo, will need to drop a merchant next turn..use coast tile for a little growth when you do that..you should be able to flip that citizen back to merchant again the next turn..rinse/repeat)

Wait! ha...why did you move your caravel away? He was supposed to pick up your GM near Seville.

(I would still trade for Engineering if you have the chance. I think Giggles will be willing soon. Techs like Drama, Compass, and HBR are worth trading if some nice gold pops up)

Krik should take the copper mind if Thebes is not using it.

Seems you lost the plot on jnebbe...either run all merchants or forget it and grow/focus hammers.

Worker8 (N of Thebes) can chop 2 forests near him, which should go to Thebes.

I just notice after testing a few turns that a worker was building a workshop on a grass tile near Lymo. That is fine to do. However, the workshop will change the food configuration. Reason I point this out is that by doing what I mentioned above about flipping a merchant from food and back will net you a GP on turn earlier. So make sure you move that citizen from that tile to coast before it becomes a workshop, or delay the workshop 1 turn
 
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1080 AD

Took some advice from both threads, think I have messed up by 1 turn my GPP in Lymond, and my chain was probably off slightly, but still looking good
  • NZ has given me a GM :scan: he is now in Kish about to be transformed into gold
  • Krikav's GM is on road to Rome
  • Lymond is about to pop another GM ( I hope), then will be Fippy's turn
Save attached (maps not changed much, so won't post maps this turn, will again once we start the war)
 

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I hope you got your caraval back to the inland sea. Ha..I know you have a lot of advice to sift through but that was a misplay. woulda saved you several turns moving the GM to Rome. Who knows maybe Rome will have more money for the mission now. He does have a Harbor there.

Really, saving the turn on Lymo not a big deal. The first GM mission is the only one that will factor into the Ethiopian war really. The others will help you tech up some more and upgrade cavs/rifles later.

Sometimes, it's good to stop and reflect on the advice and ask questions.
 
558 gold banked, 3200 gold incoming from the two GMs, 3360 to be spent on upgrading units. You could turn research back on for the moment, pick up Banking in I assume two turns. If you don't get another GM from Lymond or Fippy you'd need to briefly turn research off again to make sure you had enough for upgrades. The prep work for war is pretty straightforward. Your first two spies are going to be in position a turn early thanks to Engineering road movement, and you'll have the gold for upgrades by then too thanks to an immediate Great Merchant, so you could plan for a turn-173 attack instead of 174.

The key with Cuirassier warfare is speed. You want to take full advantage of their two moves, and try to find paths that let you keep moving towards a subsequent target with units that aren't needed taking the current city. If there are any really hard nuts to crack - generally cities on hilltops with high culture - you can use prepositioned spies and espionage to put them in revolt, removing the cultural part of their city defense.

For example in this case: take your 5 chariots (who you need to upgrade to Cuirassiers two turns in advance, so they can move from your culture to the neutral jungle NW of the gems the turn before you plan to declare) and get Matara. Hopefully those 5 Cuirassiers will be enough to carry on and also get Yeha; you've got a decent technological edge and neither of the cities is on a hill, so there's a good chance of it. Your main army can be 1S of Lalibela the turn you declare, on the marble turn 2. One Cuirassier heads to the hill NE of Gondar to see how many defenders it has, then more go join as needed; the bulk of the army stands 1S of Aksum on turn 3. On Aksum's pigs turn 4, NW of Addis Ababa on turn 5, and hopefully on turn 6 you capitulate him having taken 6 of his most valuable cities (if he still won't cap, 3 more turns would get you Adwa, Adulis, and Massawa as well).
 
Trade map to Rome for gold...or HBR. (Almost tempted to switch him into Caste for the heck of it..but actually would rather him not in anarchy short-term so that Rome might still grow before trade mission)

I'd go ahead and finish Guilds now, then back to max tax. Guilds will give you some extra hammers in some cities.

Banking as placeholder for now...need it for Rep Parts anyway.

I don't think there's much need to fudge with Thebes/Krik/Sampsa at this point. Let Thebes and Krik keep their main food resource. Samspa can take FP from NZ now.

Krik will probably whip some when you go into slavery. Thebes will never be whipped but can still grow some. Maybe some windmills on the hills there.

don't starve Lymo - not sure what you did there but that was not the plan

My City looks fine this turn...just adjust so Lymo pops first next turn.

I would have sent the second GM to Rome as well. One mission is fine for the HAs

good job on workers near those barb cities. I was hoping you'd split them off and send one to the food for the other city

(I'm not overly concerned with the WC upgrades down there. Maybe one or two for protection in case Zara sends some guys down there)

that horse near jnebbe could use a road eventually so units can move faster outta there.

FishMan prolly shoulda been running another guy there. May pop dude there eventually.
 
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So thinking ahead to the war just putting in turn 1 etc here not sure of exact turn I'll declare

Main Army
Turns -4 to -1) Have spies in Aksum
Turn 1) Declare, move main army 1S of Lalibela
Turn 2) Take Lalibela with some Curis, then move rest apart from one to Askum, move 1 Cuirs towards Gondar)
Turn 3) Move bulk towards Aksum, move some Curis towards Gondar
Turn 4) Take Gondar, Take Aksum move towards Addis Abada
Turn 5) Take Addis Abada

Something like that (I don't have the save open so going off memory a little)
 
Yeah, pretty much, although you don't need to split the main army at all until turn 3 (you can reach both 1NE of Gondar and 1S of Aksum from the marble tile) - you'll just on the same turn move 1 Cuirassier, look at what it sees defending Gondar, then move more to back up that one as needed.
 
A nice little trick is to switch Zara into Caste System right before you attack. (make sure you do it before you switch to slavery, but as close to the turn of attack as possible)

No problem giving him Optics for that...

those obstacles around Lali and Aksum are annoying...will slow things a bit.
 
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1100 AD

  • All HA's are upgraded to Cuirs
  • Both spies are in aksum
  • GM in rome has been used
  • have another GM in Urik will be 1500 gold next turn
  • Fippy is 2 turns away from another GP
  • I think we are almost good to go, think we can give zara caste next turn, then can move into a spot 2 movement points from Labiela
  • we still have 3 turns of golden age
Save attached

  • We go as soon as Golden age ends I guess, then switch governments. Going to bring my galleons to fippy now (including the caravals) ready for the war vs Charlie, I dont expect Zara to last more than 6 or 7 turns after I declare
 

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Flip Zara to Caste System that same turn you attack, right before declaring war - no reason to do it earlier when it will cost more EPs and there's a chance he might revolt back to slavery before you actually attack.

There's a little room for optimizing your cities, just cycling through and adjusting their tiles at this point - this is a good habit to get into doing periodically, or every single turn before you hit end-turn if you're really trying to optimize a game as much as possible. Thebes can take back the pigs, start growing again. Krikav swaps pigs for corn, coast tile for plains workshop. Coanda is fine. Sampsa swaps corn for desert hill. Fippy grabs horses tile - it'll still finish the GP in two turns that way, so no real cost. Lymond grabs plainshill and plains town instead of two coastal tiles. Noble Zarkon is fine, although it could swap a coast tile for that desert hill if you want (and definitely would if you had a mine there). Gumbolt is fine. Jnebbe is fine, although like NZ it could swap a coast tile for the unimproved hill if you wanted and definitely would if there was a mine there. Fish Man could have been on the verge of generating a Great Person by the end of this golden age if it had been starving away that 16 surplus food the whole time, but needing to do it one turn at a time means you'll come up a ways short. Still worth getting started on, hopefully you'll get a Great Person there in like 30 turns, which is sooner than anywhere else after Fippy. Etruscan could work grass hill instead of inland lake until that granary finishes. Phrygian should work copper rather than the inland lake.

The cuirassier in Etruscan should go along with the others. Don't worry about leaving the city ungarrisoned; in two turns you'll finish the granary, at which point you can start a longbow. And as you'll be swapping into slavery around that time, you're declaring war in three turns and could two-pop whip the longbow that turn if need be so it would have only a single turn during war without a garrison (depending on where you see Zara Yaqob's units you might not burn the pop on that, of course; if you can safely slow-build the longbow that'd be preferable).

When you can do it safely, start working on a road from Etruscan to Matara with one of the two workers down there. That will speed up the pivot from Zara Yaqob to Charlemagne after the current war. I'd take my caravels and start heading to check up on Charlemagne's coast again for more up-to-date planning of that war. Galleons will want to wait two turns to see if Fippy generates a Great Merchant (who you could just drop off along Madrid and let him take the slow trek overland to Rome from there, no huge rush at this point) before they start gathering in the south.

You can probably run 100% tech through Rifling at this point, which will finish comfortably in time to be sending Cavalry after Charlemagne. Might put a little commerce into espionage on Zara Yaqob during one turn to be sure you have enough for both the Aksum revolt and the civic swap.
 
Just a couple of questions.....
  • Longbow vs Musket.... I can build both, so its it the Longbow as its cheaper, or is there other considerations
  • Rome vs Urik, difference between the cities is 200G... I know we should optimise as much as possible, but I think Izzy is plotting on me (lol) so Urik would be a safer trek and 1500 gold is still a good amount to help with teching or upgrades if needed
  • Should I bank some gold for Cav upgrades, as I think I'll have these sooner than later
  • Heroic Epic city, still Aksum as a possibitly? As lots of chop potential there, and I should get a bunch of workers from Zara hopefully
 
A size-4 or size-5 city can whip a longbow the turn after starting on it, but the musket you'd need to do some more production first (have to put 20+ hammers in to get in 2-pop-whip range). Since there is a possibility you'll end up wanting to whip the unit the turn after you start it here, that's a pretty decisive difference. You'd probably prefer the longbow anyways; significantly cheaper and a good enough city defender given the tech of your opponents.

Rome. You have enough gold to run 100% slider for quite a while now, long enough for the Great Merchant to make the trek to Rome; there's no huge urgency on getting the gold, so 200 extra gold is nice. And I strongly doubt Izzy is plotting on you; she's plotting on someone, but your power ratio is way above hers and she doesn't even have Astronomy. More likely she's plotting on Gilgamesh (who she dislikes as much as you, but is weaker and closer) or Rome (Isabella is one of the AIs who will target civilizations she is Pleased with for war sometimes, and they are a land target).

After you get Rifling you can shut down research for a while to get your Cuirassiers upgraded. No reason to bank gold before Rifling though, if it would mean not running at 100% slider.

Aksum is your National Epic city, not heroic epic. If you're planning on carrying on to Biology with your research (it'll be Rifling then Communism for sure, but after that you might just go 100% gold to rushbuy units and wrap up the game), save the forests around it because National Park wonder won't be that far off and give you +1 specialist for each of those forests. That city can potentially run 15 specialists at size-12, which is downright silly; it's just a shame it'll be so late in this game that it basically doesn't matter. Lalibela might make a decent heroic epic city for late-game. Lot of flat terrain that can get watermills and workshops, lot of riverside tiles for levee bonus if you keep teching after Communism. Sampsa or Thebes could potentially be transitioned to that role too.
 
National Wonders may not be all that relevant at this stage, even HE. Phrygian might make a decent HE city and it's coastal.

Upgrade to Cavs won't be as expensive. You should have plenty of gold when the time comes.

I'd rather windmill those desert tiles myself..you'll have rep parts soon enough.

Thebes and Krik should both take back pigs and cows respectively.

Since you sent a GM to Kish, you could hold it there a bit until you really need the gold. May increase in value. Kish may get a harbor short-term.

techs: Banking>Rifling, prolly Econ, then Chem for Frigs/workshops, and then Communism(State Property) and Physics. Really all you need.
 
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..and keep it mind that you will get quite a bit of gold from capturing cities, and maybe some trading/begging...so hold those GMs as long as you can.

ha...seemed to have lost track of the fact that Zara had grown so large. You'll probably have to take several cities - 6 o 7 at least. Curs from S can take a couple of cities nearby easily I suspect.

I see no reason to waste a spy mission on civic switch. Optics trade will be fine...get some gold too.
 
OK...
1120 :-
  • Fippy did not give me a GM but instead a GS... Maybe should have renamed her Mylene all those turns ago :(
  • Not sure what to do with GS, bulbing Sci Method seems a waste and I already have an acadamy in Thebes
  • Still have the other GM in Kish
  • Turn just started... DO I go ????? everything seems to be in place (trun Zara first before declaring and going)
Spoiler Stack :


 

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You're not ready in the south. If you declare war now you'll probably lose that worker 2S of Addi Galamo (any unit in the city can move SE onto the hill, then SW onto the worker). And Addi Galamo isn't really a priority city - it's a size-1 city with nothing particularly special or important about it, probably doesn't even have a single worker improvement yet. Very low-value target. Matara is one of Ethiopia's core cities, and a place you want to take on turn-2 of the war if possible. Which means the 5 Cuirassiers need to be 1 move NW of where they are so they can reach Matara in time. There's also the (very, very small) chance that Addi Galamo has some units that decide to head straight for Etruscan when you DoW; if so they could reach Etruscan before you could finish a whip on the longbow, since you need to sink 1 turn of production into it before whipping the longbow becomes a possibility.

And delaying one more turn also means getting some more Cuirassiers with the army - Sampsa and Krikav's Cuirassiers would be able to join the attack on Lalibela, and Thebes' Cuirassier would be able to support the attack on Aksum, so you go from 20 to 23 Cuirassiers with that main stack.

I'd delay one last turn, go next turn.

It's an open question to me how you want to manage the three spies you have in Aksum. One option would be to flip Zara to Caste System, DoW, spend two turns getting your main army next to Aksum, revolt it, take the city. The risk there is that if both spies in Aksum at that point fail their mission, you'd need to fight it with cultural defenses intact - which would cost you a few more Cuirassiers. The second option would be to forget about flipping him to Caste entirely - just switch to Slavery yourself right now, whip the Cuirassiers in Noble Zarkon and Jnebbe before ending this turn so they can join the main stack at least in time for Aksum. Third option would be to stay in Caste System a bit longer even after you declare war, wait until you have a stack bordering Aksum. Use the spies to try to revolt the city first, then if you have any left over after succeeding with that you can use them to try to flip him to Caste... then you switch to Slavery. That's the route I favor slightly, but I'd be open to someone else persuading me otherwise on the subject.
 
I'd probably just bulb him towards Scientific Method.

If you wanted to hold on to him for use in combination with the first-to-Communism free Great Spy to start a Golden Age, that'd be fine too. But you'll be getting a first-to-Physics free Great Scientist pretty soon after Communism, so you could just use up the current Great Scientist and combine those two instead.

Edit: On second thought, if you hold on to him and use him plus the Communism Great Spy you don't really need Physics at all (airships are pretty nice scouting units, but when you have this big a tech edge they aren't strictly necessary and saving 6000 beakers is gonna be an extra 15 or so Cavalry bought with the gold you get instead).
 
I woulda attacked the turn after I upgraded all those units.

Bulbing Sci Meth is fine. You can probably get another complement to the Commie Gspy for a golden age later, but does not really matter. (FishDude city has a lot of gpp)

If you are going to bulb you might as well do it now or next turn before you start whipping stuff, cause pop factors into the bulb value.

edit: there's also the Econ GM

edit2: don't forget to switch Zara into Caste with optics

edit500: grow your cities...don't use funky tiles or a citizen like Lymo.(exception for any city with 1 or 2t cur in process)..you are going to be whipping cities next turn. Any city but Thebes is fair game.

note: you will generally 2 or 3 pop whip Curs. often this will give some nice OF into the next Cur. a few good whips in high pop cities will be nice, but don't overdo it. keep the growth going too

Mylene does not need a stable....go ahead and start Curs there.

edit5000: send GM to Rome...Galleon can pick it up right now N of UR...that's like an extra 400g maybe more
 
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