Need help with Bismark

[Andorim]

I have been struggling to make the transition from Noble to Prince. I finally have been winning (although the early game is very tough) if I can choose my civ's leader. In an effort to understand the game even better, I have set myself the goal of winning at least one Prince level game using each leader. I am playing a custom game on small pangea, with space victory disabled.

I need some help winning with Bismark. What are his strengths that can be exploited? What are his weaknesses? His UU comes very late in the game, so I don't think that will be a big factor. What victory type(s) is he best able to accomplish?

All helpful advice is welcome.

 

[Meatbuster]

That's a tough question. Actually many leaders can be played the same way, depending on the traits.

Bismarck...

INDUSTRIOUS: While it's nice to collect wonders, I wouldn't recommend doing that in favor of building an army. It's better to focus on 1 or 2 early wonders that give you the advantage (for example, Pyramids for Representation, or Oracle to get Machinery or Civil Service, or Great Wall in Warlords to keep out barbarians and free your army to invade) and with Industrious, you have a good chance of getting the wonder even without the strategic resource available. Industrious does get the advantage of fast-building forges I'd get Metal Casting early, a forge in all cities and produce a bigger military.

EXPANSIVE: Try building Granaries asap in new cities for faster growth. With Expansive you have lots of health so it's sometimes worthwhile to trade out (for example) your last wheat supply to get a gold or any happiness resource and increase the number of happy citizens.

Unique Unit: Panzer - The only thing that can stop it before Mechs and Modern Armor is a promoted Marine. But I think you can win the game long before you get Panzers if you focus on military.

Unique Building (Warlords only): Assembly Plant, replaces Factory - Add production to any high-food city as well as the ability to add 2 extra Engineers. Comes late, but every bit of production can help in the space race or the Panzer-powered war.

Strategies you can try:
1. Early rush on your neighbor with Axemen and 1 Spear. A good idea is to have Code of Laws or at least be researching it during your first invasion so you can recover your economy quickly. Currency is probably needed to recover economically after some more cities.
2. Cultural victory. Collect Great Prophets using wonders, found religions.
3. Get Civil Service using Oracle, then beeline Machinery for Macemen.

 

[Welnic]

A nice thing about the Industrious Expansive combo is that forges are cheap and the extra health means that it is easier to deal with the health hit of the forge.

 

[Sisiutil]

Darn. If I'd played my ALC Germany game with Bizzy instead of Freddy, I'd be more help. It sounds like you're doing what I tried, except I got so much help that I was able to move up to Monarch when I was half-way through the leaders.

I'd back up what the two previous posters have said. An Industrious leader practically begs for a Metal Casting slingshot from the Oracle so you can get started on those cheap forges ASAP. Remember that besides improving production and letting you run an engineer specialists, forges are also happiness increasers provided you have gold, silver, and/or gems. And the AI loves to trade valuable techs for Metal Casting.

The only other wonder I would shoot for is Stonehenge, since Bizzy is not Creative and is unlikely to found an early religion. The 'henge is a cheap wonder, especially with Industrious. It means you don't have to waste production turns on an obelisk (monument in Warlords) and you'll also get a Great Prophet from it eventually. Later, build Oracle in the same city as Stonehenge to accelerate the production of the Great Prophet(s).

I actually wouldn't bother with the Pyramids, unless you're playing Warlords, build the Great Wall, and use its Great Engineer to build them rather than wasting 225 hammers. That's a lot of Axemen. I usually only shoot for the Pyramids if I'm a Philosophical leader and I'm planning on running a Specialist Economy. In the early game, Hereditary Rule is usually better than Representation and more easily obtained.

As for Expansive, there are numerous benefits. First off, you can chop a lot more forests since you don't need their health benefits as badly. Second, cheap granaries! Prioritize these as soon as you have Pottery (a high-priority tech), and then start whipping. The granaries will let you recover population faster so you can whip 'em again, and the cheap forges mean you get more hammers per population point you sacrifice. Don't be afraid to be a tyrant!

The only big problem with Germany is, like America, that UU that's so late it's often useless. But if you need a late push for a domination win, it could come in handy.

 

[karr1255]

I love Bismark because he's the ultimate whipper. If you make the transition from noble to prince you're probably not using slavery to it's full potential but he is a great leader to learn it with. I suggest you play around with it a little, because it's one of the best tools in the game. Using it right will really help your game in general.

The basic thought is, that nothing gets you more hammers early on than whipping population. First you whip a granary for 1 pop instead of 2(1 hammer has to be invested in the build) that's where Expansive helps. Also you can settle jungle and flood plains easier. Of course every city benefits from cheaper granaries so build them fast.

Secondly what makes whipping even more effective are forges. Cities get a production bonus and maybe even happiness which is essential. They can be pretty expensive early on but you get them for half and can whip them for 2 pop. Now every population whipped away is worth 37 hammers. Also the unhealthiness from the forge gets offset by Expansive so you get a nice little synergy there.
What a lot of people also forget about Industrious is the hammers saved on every national wonder. Not a big thing but still nice because stuff like the national epic and globe theatre are usually build in hammer poor cities.

The perfect setup would be getting the oracle and choosing metal casting for free. And if you get that the colossus is yours, that's just the icing on the cake though. On prince and with the Industrious trait going for the oracle is usually a good deal. But keep in mind that wonder chasing can get you killed on higher difficulties. If it doesn't fit your strategy ignore it.

The UU is late which is in itself bad. If you get it at a good time and not way after your enemies you can get some use out of it though. And in case you have a major tech lead through early aggression that's domination win right there.

 

[kniteowl]

I'm Playing as Bismarck Right now, testing out the Priest Production City Why?

The only thing that stops me asigning Priest to a City is Health and expansives helps alot, happiness isn't a major factor becuase under monarchy I can get extrra Happiness by build archers and fortifying them.

Industious Allows me to build the Angkor Wat Faster so Bismarck was made for For Priest Production.

How to Try out the Priest Produciton Tactic?

Find a City with Plenty of Food a location with 3 Food resources, a minimum of 2 If you can't find 3 but it must have Lots of grassland tiles, somewhere in the jungle is usually best. try to settle near the coast (Don't get too many Coastal and ocean tiles unless you have plenty of seafood resources in that city too)

Why the Coast? gives you ability to build habours which increase health from seafood resources.

Try not settle this city near floodplains, although you get the Food surplus, you also increase your unhealthiness therefore decrease the number of Priest you can Assign in this city. You can have no more then 2 floodplains with your fat cross if you don't want to increase your unhealthiness.

Once you choosen a City for your Priest Prouction, Try your best to Found the Holy City of Conf There, the Shrine will help get you 3 Extra Priest, If you don't it's not a big lost. Get the City to have 3 or 4 Religions before to complete the Angkor Wat and Build Temples and Cathedrals For Priest, Monestaries don't give you Preist.

Don't Worry About Setting with this tactic quickly, you should have this up around the time you can build Maces.

If the place you settle doesn't have enough Forest to Chop the Angkor Wat, You can Try the Oracle MC Slingshot and build a Forge and Assign, A Engineer Specilist and Pop a GE to rush the Angkor Wat, I know you can use the GE for better thing like the Great Library But Trust you want the Angkor Wat.

Besides if you compare Hammers. the Great Library is 350H and Angkor Wat is 500H you can chop rush the Great Library In another City (besides the PP City) easily, after mathmatics you can easily chop the GL for 45H per forest (Industriouus Modifyer included)

Next Is to get Philosophy, Don't be Bothered Pop a Grest Scientist for this, It'll take too long, you can do this if you found a perfect spot where there's plenty of food and forest to chop, therefore you don't need a GE and you piop a GSas your 1st Great Person, but most of the time you'll need that GE or you'll be waiting 30+ turns to build that Angkor Wat.

How to Get Philosophy without a GS? beeline to Music and use the Great Artist but in order to Pop Philsophy to need to research Literature, Drama, Music, Polytheism, Monarchy before hand REMEMBER to NOT research Mansonary or else you'll go down the Divine Right route. You can Also use a Great Prophet to pop Philosophy just remember to research/trade for the following techs as giving for the Great Artist. If you want to Found Tao Religion try not to trade Codes of Law to the AI.

Once you got all that Sorted, now it's time for an Early Axes and Swords War with a Neighbour Civ. Why? you need a Great General to get a Level 5 unit so you can Build Heroic Epic in your PP City.

In the mean time Farm that City like it was a Great People Farm (improve the tiles in that that City Last focus on other Cities for cottages First) or around the time of the middles ages before Angkor Wat, WHip often, Especially Ganary, forge and religious Building like Temples and Cathedrals, the more Priest the Better.

TRY not to Go past your Health Cap and try not Grow your City Too Big that once you assign the max mumber of Priest, the extra Citizen do nothing (wasted people and Maintainace cost) I guess you could whip the extra people away but that City is gonna be a HIGH production City So I don't the Point.

Once you got your Priest Ready and Angkor Wat Built, it's time to Build the Heroic Epic and Once that's Done Around the Time of Maces , You'll have around the Base Production of 20H + 100% (from Heroic Epic) + 25% (from Forge) That's 40H A TURN (generally you'd get more) that means you'd be Mumping our Maces every 2 turn (Overflow not included) you'll be pumping out an army of 6 maces and 4 Cats in bout 15-20 turns(overflow included) just from that City alone

I ran outta relevant things to build in that City (didn't want Units) economy couldn't handle any more and needed to improve tiles in conquered lands so I had it build research lol

Any Extra Great Prophets you pop from that City you can't use to build a shrine or pop any relevant tech, assign them to your PP City for an extra 2H in that city (before modifiers)

By the Time you Reach Rifles this city is still Competitive, Pumping out Rifles every 2-3turns If you include all the Great Prophets you assign as Super Specialist.

By the the time of Stare Property I'm not your which Production City is Better?

State Property Water mills and Workshops? Or PP City With Priest and GP Super Specialist? I havn't tested this out maybe in another game.

Don't Use the PP City for the Space race as Angkor Wat becomes Obsolete with Computers.

 

[aelf]

Bismark is the best leader for an OCC, IMHO. Happiness is not a limit when you can build the Globe immediately after building a theatre. Expansive is extremely useful in helping you get a bigger pop. In mid to late game, when you have no more tiles to work, that means more specialists. Very useful. And as explained above, cheap granaries and forges are great for whipping in the early game.

Besides the cheap forges, Industrious is important for helping you grab all those nice wonders, possibly your only edge in an OCC. I usually chop for Pyramids early as playing on Emperor usually means getting 0-1 happiness resources nearby. The +2 happiness from Representation is great in the early game before building the Globe. I have more pop to work with and can run more specialists earlier (esp. scientists) = more great people earlier (like a Philosophical leader) = tech lead and great tech trading opportunities until late mid game. You also benefit from the extra beakers from specialists. Very important in a game where you can't work that many cottages and can quickly fall behind the AI. Great Library and Hanging Gardens is a must for me. In the end, you'd probably still need a PA to win, but Bismark is a leader who can keep up to par with the AI on a high-difficulty OCC.

I don't really like him in a normal game, but he's probably better than Roosevelt. Darn, maybe I should've chosen him instead of Roosevelt in my current Emperor's Challenge. Why didn't I think of that?

 

[Andorim]

Thanks for all the very useful advice. I wish I had gotten it before I started the current game. Right now I am firmly in second place against the "vile Persian" (he is hated by all the neighbours), and have managed to survive until infantry. I am #1 in soldiers, but just barely. The Panzer is just around the corner. Victory will be mine!

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Murky]

Bismark is great for doing the Metal Casting slingshot.