NES2 V - The Great Game.
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Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
To: FK
From: Persia
We withdraw our alliance with Egypt.
We are willing to withdraw our claims to Azerbadjan, and any area near the Black Sea. However, the areas of Southern Iraq and al-Hasa are both historically Shiite and Persian possesions, and both have expressed their will to join the Persian state. They are of great religious significance to the nation of Persia, but bear little importance to the Ottoman Empire, a state which controls Jerusalem, Constantinople, and Mecca.
We fear that the inhabitants of these areas may violently protest being separated from Persia, and shall cost the Ottoman Empire great amounts of blood and treasure to pacify.
We are willing to raise our offer of payment to 5 million Federate Pounds, for the affected areas, as they contain the large majority of peoples that are internationally considered Persian.
The Islamic Council cordially thanks the Federated Kingdoms for it's unbiased intervention in these affairs, and again expresses our hopes that the FK will cease it's evacuation of personnel.
*secret*
If the Ottoman Empire were to refuse these generous terms, opting not to provide a counteroffer, and instead to continue belligerancy, would the FK pledge neutrality in the event of such an action? We have already received insulting messages from the Sultan demanding outrageous terms.
*secret*
Sincerely,
Shah Ardashir IV
Signed by the Islamic Council
From: Persia
We withdraw our alliance with Egypt.
We are willing to withdraw our claims to Azerbadjan, and any area near the Black Sea. However, the areas of Southern Iraq and al-Hasa are both historically Shiite and Persian possesions, and both have expressed their will to join the Persian state. They are of great religious significance to the nation of Persia, but bear little importance to the Ottoman Empire, a state which controls Jerusalem, Constantinople, and Mecca.
We fear that the inhabitants of these areas may violently protest being separated from Persia, and shall cost the Ottoman Empire great amounts of blood and treasure to pacify.
We are willing to raise our offer of payment to 5 million Federate Pounds, for the affected areas, as they contain the large majority of peoples that are internationally considered Persian.
The Islamic Council cordially thanks the Federated Kingdoms for it's unbiased intervention in these affairs, and again expresses our hopes that the FK will cease it's evacuation of personnel.
*secret*
If the Ottoman Empire were to refuse these generous terms, opting not to provide a counteroffer, and instead to continue belligerancy, would the FK pledge neutrality in the event of such an action? We have already received insulting messages from the Sultan demanding outrageous terms.
*secret*
Sincerely,
Shah Ardashir IV
Signed by the Islamic Council
MjM
Deity
OOC: Yes Thlayi, I dont think the FK has whipped you enough. 
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Are you really one to talk? (jk) Oh, and Storm, I made sure to draw culturally appropriate boundries. All areas controlled by Persia are mostly Shiite.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Lord_Iggy said:
We kindly ask the Ottoman Empire to cease it's baseless threats, and return to a civilized discussion. The topic of discussion is the return of lands linked culturally and ethnically to Persia, and what amount of compensation to the Ottoman Empire would be proper for the rightful return of said lands.
If you are willing to compromise in the interest of peace, then may Mohammed (peace be unto him) smile on our renewed friendship. If violence is your only recourse however, we will continue the war until peace for all Islam is attained.
Stormbringer
The Brick and The Rose
Letter to the Islamic Council from Lord Russell,
"Sirs,
I am still awaiting the withdrawal of recognition of Egypt and the appology, and since you have already taken the first step to returning to normal relations it would be a pitty to stop now.
As for the issue of Shiite land, we have examined it, and while the areas are predominantly Shiite, they are also predominantly Arabic and the predominant language is Arabic, not Farsi. In addition, a border as you suggest would divide the Tigris river valley into two, sparking tentions there, and would further divide the Arabian peninsula needlessly into two, providing for even more tension. We stand by the decision that the division along the historical Persian border makes the most sence, and in order to provide for the needs fo the Shiite muslims included provisions to assure their proper treatment. If, as you claim, you were in the war to help Shiite muslims your goal is achieved, and if you were in it for land then your ambitions will be rebuked in the harshest possible manner. We suggest you accept the fair treaty as proposed, since it will ensure the most stability in the region.
Lord Russell"
Letter to the Ottoman Sultan from Lord Russell
"Dear Sir,
Your recent statements have me very worried. We have agreed that this war must come to a conclusion in a quick and fair manner, and one that will ensure stability of the region and the sovereignty of all nations involved. The peace treaty proposed by us does just that, but you continue with unbased claims and threats - which only serve to deterriorate the situation and provoke more bloodshed. You neither have claims nor the ability to take the western territories of Persia, and thus I most strongly urge you to accept the peace agreement as presented.
Lord John Russell"
"Sirs,
I am still awaiting the withdrawal of recognition of Egypt and the appology, and since you have already taken the first step to returning to normal relations it would be a pitty to stop now.
As for the issue of Shiite land, we have examined it, and while the areas are predominantly Shiite, they are also predominantly Arabic and the predominant language is Arabic, not Farsi. In addition, a border as you suggest would divide the Tigris river valley into two, sparking tentions there, and would further divide the Arabian peninsula needlessly into two, providing for even more tension. We stand by the decision that the division along the historical Persian border makes the most sence, and in order to provide for the needs fo the Shiite muslims included provisions to assure their proper treatment. If, as you claim, you were in the war to help Shiite muslims your goal is achieved, and if you were in it for land then your ambitions will be rebuked in the harshest possible manner. We suggest you accept the fair treaty as proposed, since it will ensure the most stability in the region.
Lord Russell"
Letter to the Ottoman Sultan from Lord Russell
"Dear Sir,
Your recent statements have me very worried. We have agreed that this war must come to a conclusion in a quick and fair manner, and one that will ensure stability of the region and the sovereignty of all nations involved. The peace treaty proposed by us does just that, but you continue with unbased claims and threats - which only serve to deterriorate the situation and provoke more bloodshed. You neither have claims nor the ability to take the western territories of Persia, and thus I most strongly urge you to accept the peace agreement as presented.
Lord John Russell"
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
From: Persia
To: FK
We hereby apologise for any inconvenience Persia caused the Federated Kingdoms by it's recognition of Egypt. In the interest of averting war, we withdraw such recognition.
In return, we sincerely hope that the FK returns it's revoked personnel to Bandar-e' Abbas.
Perhaps the Federated Kingdoms are correct...however the fact remains that Southern Iraq has far closer ties to Persia than the Ottoman Empire. If the provinces are returned, we cannot guarantee that a large portion of the population will not rise up to fight the Ottoman Empire, an Empire that has oppressed them for centuries. With all due respect to the Federate government, the Shiite peoples in Iraq are, in our opinion, willing to fight to the death to prevent Ottoman reoccupation.
While we do not wish to divide the Tigris valley, a sectarian war is a likely outcome of a full restoration of Ottoman rule.
Also, we express extreme doubt that the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire will give Shiite Muslims all political rights allowed to Sunnis, including the right to elect a traditional local government. In fact, we doubt that the leadership of the Ottoman Empire would even tolerate it. (OOC: Giving full political rights to minorities will probably cause a coup on the scale of Umberto's reforms. See "Pan Islamists" in the Rebel Groups list for more information.)
If the Ottoman Empire were to give Persia such an assurance, and implemented changes under Perso-Federate supervision, we would be able to come to an agreement.
Also, in the interest of not dividing further regions, all land east of the Tigris should, in our opinion, be ceded to Persia. This provides a more stable, logical, and defensible border for both sides.
Despite our disagreements, we admire your commitment to a fair peace.
Sincerely,
The Islamic Council
Addendum:
We would very much hate to evict the members of the Persian Gulf Company currently staying in Bandar-e' Abbas. May we inform them that normalcy in relations has been restored?
Abdul Qadaalik, Minister of Naval Affairs, The Islamic Council
To: FK
We hereby apologise for any inconvenience Persia caused the Federated Kingdoms by it's recognition of Egypt. In the interest of averting war, we withdraw such recognition.
In return, we sincerely hope that the FK returns it's revoked personnel to Bandar-e' Abbas.
Perhaps the Federated Kingdoms are correct...however the fact remains that Southern Iraq has far closer ties to Persia than the Ottoman Empire. If the provinces are returned, we cannot guarantee that a large portion of the population will not rise up to fight the Ottoman Empire, an Empire that has oppressed them for centuries. With all due respect to the Federate government, the Shiite peoples in Iraq are, in our opinion, willing to fight to the death to prevent Ottoman reoccupation.
While we do not wish to divide the Tigris valley, a sectarian war is a likely outcome of a full restoration of Ottoman rule.
Also, we express extreme doubt that the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire will give Shiite Muslims all political rights allowed to Sunnis, including the right to elect a traditional local government. In fact, we doubt that the leadership of the Ottoman Empire would even tolerate it. (OOC: Giving full political rights to minorities will probably cause a coup on the scale of Umberto's reforms. See "Pan Islamists" in the Rebel Groups list for more information.)
If the Ottoman Empire were to give Persia such an assurance, and implemented changes under Perso-Federate supervision, we would be able to come to an agreement.
Also, in the interest of not dividing further regions, all land east of the Tigris should, in our opinion, be ceded to Persia. This provides a more stable, logical, and defensible border for both sides.
Despite our disagreements, we admire your commitment to a fair peace.
Sincerely,
The Islamic Council
Addendum:
We would very much hate to evict the members of the Persian Gulf Company currently staying in Bandar-e' Abbas. May we inform them that normalcy in relations has been restored?
Abdul Qadaalik, Minister of Naval Affairs, The Islamic Council
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
OOC: 
Stalin's back! But will it be in time to save New Prussia?
Find out, and tune in to another exciting episode of...The Great Game!
Stalin's back! But will it be in time to save New Prussia?Find out, and tune in to another exciting episode of...The Great Game!
MjM
Deity
Thlayli said:
The reason why I lost so bad was because I didn't send orders. Dont feel too good now.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Well, I can't help but feel a *little* pride, considering what Persia looked like only 5 turns ago.
Stormbringer
The Brick and The Rose
OOC: Read the treaty, there are specific protections for Shiite muslims, and if the ottomans dont follow them they are the once violating the treaty and I will be on your side trying to enforce it if they do. As for the border, I divide it this way - highlands go to you, valley to the Ottomans, its the traditional border of persia and makes much more sence, since the communities of the highlands are different than the valley communities while the communities on two sides of the river are similar. As for a possible civil war, there are plenty of sovereignty clauses in there, and if Ottomans want a civil war thats their choice, not yours to make, let them have it. Didnt want to write this all OOC since I think its just clarifications of the points, not actual disagreements.
MjM
Deity
Storm, if you can wait a few days until im at a decent comp for the treaty, ok. If not, feel free to post it, it should resemble what we discussed. This is only of course if you dont wish to wait a few days.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
OOC:
If the Ottomans do follow those provisions, the military leadership of the Empire will most likely stage a coup. I'm not sure where the "rebel groups" page is, but anyway. The Ottoman Empire is *very* unstable confidence wise at the moment...one misstep in this treaty and well...
If we want to go on the "traditional" borders of Persia, that would include all of Iraq, and most of Armenia as well.
I don't know what your source is regarding highlands versus valleys. Since the current borders are undefined by war, redrawing them around the willingness of the people to support the treaty seems, to me, to be the best option.
It is in Persia's interest to see a stable Ottoman Empire as well, and the less ethnic groups it has to worry about, the better. The entire province could simply become a sinkhole for money, and troops.
Iraq as a whole isn't even a known quantity yet, "Iraq" historically was the three southern provinces around Basra, until the days of the British mandate in OTL.
If we redraw the borders unrealistically, the Shiites will rise up regardless.
If the Ottomans do follow those provisions, the military leadership of the Empire will most likely stage a coup. I'm not sure where the "rebel groups" page is, but anyway. The Ottoman Empire is *very* unstable confidence wise at the moment...one misstep in this treaty and well...
If we want to go on the "traditional" borders of Persia, that would include all of Iraq, and most of Armenia as well.
I don't know what your source is regarding highlands versus valleys. Since the current borders are undefined by war, redrawing them around the willingness of the people to support the treaty seems, to me, to be the best option.
It is in Persia's interest to see a stable Ottoman Empire as well, and the less ethnic groups it has to worry about, the better. The entire province could simply become a sinkhole for money, and troops.
Iraq as a whole isn't even a known quantity yet, "Iraq" historically was the three southern provinces around Basra, until the days of the British mandate in OTL.
If we redraw the borders unrealistically, the Shiites will rise up regardless.
Stormbringer
The Brick and The Rose
OOC: those are "traditional" borders of ancient persia, not muslim persia which has pretty much always been confined to where I drew the borders, and has not changed very much. Also I would note that if you want to unite all the Shiites than I would bring up the issue of non-Shiites in your country and their independance and that whole mess, so lets just agree, ok?
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Hmm, I think we need a compromise. I'll either trade al-Hasa for Iraq, or vice versa. Regarding the traditional borders, southern Iraq was considered Persian up until the seventeenth century.
Baghdad and Basra were, until their conquest by the Ottomans, crown possessions of the Safavid Shah. Essentially, it was Iraq that was originally taken from Persia in a belligerant war.
Most Iraqi provinces carry Persian names. (Al-Anbar, for example, means "the storehouse," being a major outpost for Persian troops.) I'm not sure about ATL.
I believe that the only major ethnic group inside Persia proper is the Turkmens...I don't think you propose to give Greater Turkmenistan it's independence, it no longer exists.
Putting it simply, the Ottoman Empire has a massive territory to administer. Southern Iraq and al-Hasa have little strategic value, compared to other areas, and the effort of pacifying them is disproportionate to their value. That value is, however, immense in Shiite hands.
Retaining Iraq will only cause problems. Ceding it to Persia will result in a substantial monetary gain.
Baghdad and Basra were, until their conquest by the Ottomans, crown possessions of the Safavid Shah. Essentially, it was Iraq that was originally taken from Persia in a belligerant war.
Most Iraqi provinces carry Persian names. (Al-Anbar, for example, means "the storehouse," being a major outpost for Persian troops.) I'm not sure about ATL.
I believe that the only major ethnic group inside Persia proper is the Turkmens...I don't think you propose to give Greater Turkmenistan it's independence, it no longer exists.
Putting it simply, the Ottoman Empire has a massive territory to administer. Southern Iraq and al-Hasa have little strategic value, compared to other areas, and the effort of pacifying them is disproportionate to their value. That value is, however, immense in Shiite hands.
Retaining Iraq will only cause problems. Ceding it to Persia will result in a substantial monetary gain.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
"Original borders," we are afraid, does not comply with the Federate treaty.
The original borders are what touched off this mess. I'm not sure about the history of this timeline, but land in Iraq was fairly recently taken from Persia by the Ottoman Empire, according to das.
I am willing to recompromise, however, and will post a new map in a moment.
The original borders are what touched off this mess. I'm not sure about the history of this timeline, but land in Iraq was fairly recently taken from Persia by the Ottoman Empire, according to das.
I am willing to recompromise, however, and will post a new map in a moment.
Stormbringer
The Brick and The Rose
Iggy, I am afraid you will not get origianal borders. What you will get is the agreement I posted, so will lose a few border lands, make administration easier, get some money. Its the most reasonable answer, much more reasonable than what we started with, remember?
As for Iraq Thy, I am not saying it is a good idea for the Ottomans to keep Iraq or to give it up to you, but I will not MAKE them give it up to you if they dont want to, thats the difference.
As for Iraq Thy, I am not saying it is a good idea for the Ottomans to keep Iraq or to give it up to you, but I will not MAKE them give it up to you if they dont want to, thats the difference.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Ok. Here is a compromise everyone can agree on. It simply gives to Persia the borderlands up to the Tigris, the al-Hasa province (mostly desert, of little use to Ottomans, religiously important to us) and a small buffer area around Basra. The Tigris valley stays intact and in Ottoman hands.
While we still would appreciate a cession of all Iraq (and would be willing to pay as many as 7 eco. points for it, saving you time and troops from a costly guerilla war,) we will pay 4 eco points for the annexations shown here.
(It will be up as soon as imageshack loads it)
While we still would appreciate a cession of all Iraq (and would be willing to pay as many as 7 eco. points for it, saving you time and troops from a costly guerilla war,) we will pay 4 eco points for the annexations shown here.
(It will be up as soon as imageshack loads it)
Stormbringer
The Brick and The Rose
The Ottomans are free to chose this offer over the Federate one, but if they prefer the Federate one Persia will have to agree to it
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