The Kingmaker
Alexander
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Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 14-3=11 They do interest me, but...
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW NA 7+1=8 ...so do they.
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW NA 7+1=8 ...so do they.
Never Before Seen Civs - Elimination Game
- Thread starter The Kingmaker
- Start date
- Status
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 9 (12 - 3) -- Considering all the interesting choices we had, I'm honestly surprised to see them in first place.
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW NA 6 (5 + 1) -- Ut supra.
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW NA 6 (5 + 1) -- Ut supra.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 6 (9 - 3) Not as interesting to me as below
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW NA 7 (6 + 1) We've never had ANY of the Pacific Coast native cultures/tribes/groups represented in a Civ game. It's about time.
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW NA 7 (6 + 1) We've never had ANY of the Pacific Coast native cultures/tribes/groups represented in a Civ game. It's about time.
Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 6 + 1 = 7 (Easy to find a great leader, great theme, and great gameplay niche for this powerful African civilization)
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW NA 7 - 3 = 4 (Eh. Not as fascinating as the Dahomey, imo)
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW NA 7 - 3 = 4 (Eh. Not as fascinating as the Dahomey, imo)
God of Kings
Ruler of all heads of state
Let me finish this thread:
Benin (either Dahomey or Nigeria) wins with 6 points!
Benin (either Dahomey or Nigeria) wins with 6 points!
Returning Lurker
Prince
That was too close for comfort. Well, at least I... well, I guess I didn't technically win. My first choice would've been Nepal. But hey, second choice winning isn't so bad. Still, it shouldn't have come down to the wire like that.
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Benin won, but I'm pleased to see it didn't win by the landslide it seemed like it might. Second place for the Indigenous peoples of the PNW is acceptable, and fourth place for Georgia a pleasant surprise. Indeed, two Native American civs in the top five pleases me greatly. 
The Kingmaker
Alexander
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The first post has been updated with the final Round 2 ranking, as follows:
1
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria)
2
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW NA
3
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA
4
Georgians
5 Maori/Other Polynesians
6 Gauls/Britons
7 Irish/Scottish
8 Kushans/Bactrians
9 Bulgarians/Romanians/Other Balkans
10 Nepalese
11 Timurids/Other Central Asia
12 Berbers/Tuareg
13 Khazars
14 Argentines
15 Lydians/Pontus/Other Anatolians
16 Gran Colombia/Other Colonial SA
17 Etruscans
18 Cubans/Haitians/Other Caribbean
19 Minoans/Mycenaeans
20 Canadians
FYI, I've decided to do three more rounds of the game. Round 3 will be the last regular round with new suggestions for civs. Round 4 will be a Finals round with the top 10 civs from each of the first 3 rounds competing to see which of the highest rated civs we want most of all. Round 5 will be the final round, and it will be a losers' bracket with the bottom 10 from the first three rounds, to give those civs one final chance at glory.
I'll be posting the Round 3 listings shortly.
1
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria)2
3
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA4
Georgians5
Maori/Other Polynesians6 Gauls/Britons
7 Irish/Scottish
8 Kushans/Bactrians
9 Bulgarians/Romanians/Other Balkans
10 Nepalese
11 Timurids/Other Central Asia
12 Berbers/Tuareg
13 Khazars
14 Argentines
15 Lydians/Pontus/Other Anatolians
16 Gran Colombia/Other Colonial SA
17 Etruscans
18 Cubans/Haitians/Other Caribbean
19 Minoans/Mycenaeans
20 Canadians
FYI, I've decided to do three more rounds of the game. Round 3 will be the last regular round with new suggestions for civs. Round 4 will be a Finals round with the top 10 civs from each of the first 3 rounds competing to see which of the highest rated civs we want most of all. Round 5 will be the final round, and it will be a losers' bracket with the bottom 10 from the first three rounds, to give those civs one final chance at glory.
I'll be posting the Round 3 listings shortly.
The Kingmaker
Alexander
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- 1,975
A few things to note before proceeding with Round 3:
1. Several entries have an "other" option in them, indicating that that option may correspond to either the named civs OR another unnamed civ nearby that you would prefer.
2. Some options include some challenging possibilities. We're starting to scrape the bottom of the civ barrel a little bit anyway, and some of these options are head-lined by famous but unfeasible civs -- don't let that distract you. Don't fret about the choices if you don't favor them, as they can be considered as merely notable stand-ins for their regions.
3. The slash marks between civs stand for the word "or." By voting for a given entry, you could be voting for any one of the listed options in that entry or all of them together.
4. As this is the last regular round, the final "other/unlisted" option is for any other civs never featured in a civ game that haven't been featured in this thread as yet (please consult the first post to see if your favorite civ has already competed in previous rounds).
And now, on with the show!
Aborigines 20
Algonquian (any) 20
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 20+1=21 Alfred the Great!!!
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 20
Franks 20
Inuit 20-3=17 Too hard to implement, in my opinion.
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 20
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 20
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 20
1. Several entries have an "other" option in them, indicating that that option may correspond to either the named civs OR another unnamed civ nearby that you would prefer.
2. Some options include some challenging possibilities. We're starting to scrape the bottom of the civ barrel a little bit anyway, and some of these options are head-lined by famous but unfeasible civs -- don't let that distract you. Don't fret about the choices if you don't favor them, as they can be considered as merely notable stand-ins for their regions.
3. The slash marks between civs stand for the word "or." By voting for a given entry, you could be voting for any one of the listed options in that entry or all of them together.
4. As this is the last regular round, the final "other/unlisted" option is for any other civs never featured in a civ game that haven't been featured in this thread as yet (please consult the first post to see if your favorite civ has already competed in previous rounds).
And now, on with the show!
Aborigines 20
Algonquian (any) 20
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 20+1=21 Alfred the Great!!!
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 20
Franks 20
Inuit 20-3=17 Too hard to implement, in my opinion.
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 20
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 20
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 20
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Returning Lurker
Prince
I don't think "Other Civ/Not listed" should be an option. What my "Other" is may not be what other people's "Other" is and we may agree with our own other but not each others other. For instance I've always held out the hope that for the greatest April Fool's day joke/ crossover ever they could include the fabulous people's democratic representative republic of Tropico led by the wise and prosperous President for life El Presidente. That being said I understand why other people may not want to have Tropico (they are filthy dissenters and western saboteurs. Also the country doesn't exist) even as an April Fool's day joke so my vote for Tropico wouldn't make sense for someone else's vote for Uzbekistan or how their Uzbek vote is helping to support the Tropican cause.
The Kingmaker
Alexander
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Per the rules, you have to give a reason when you vote, so players will have to specify why they're voting "Other." Let's clarify here and now that you also have to vote for real civilizations, not fictional ones. I've added that caveat to the rules in the first post.
Since this is the final "regular" round, with only the finals remaining, I decided to give players the option to campaign for civs that didn't make the cut. I prefer to err on the side of inclusivity. Fans of the Uzbeks, Pawnee, Tartessians, Akkadians, Chileans, Sanxingdui or any number of other unmentioned civs can now advocate why that particular civ ought to be considered before the game ends by voting for the "Other" option.
If the "Other" option does well, then it indicates that there are yet other civs that people would like to see included. If it is down voted, then people are mostly satisfied with the existing selections from the other rounds.
If I see one or two particular options mentioned a lot in connection with this entry, then I'll give them honorable mentions when the round ends.
Returning Lurker
Prince
But what if I want, for instance, Xhosa. And someone else wants Kiowa. And I would really want the Xhosa but think the Kiowa are the lamest tribe ever, and the other guy thinks Kiowa are the coolest but thinks Xhosa are just lame knockoff Zulu and would never want to see them. Why should my vote for Xhosa help them promote the Kiowa and why should their Kiowa vote bring light to my Xhosa if neither of us would want to see the other side and would vote against them if we had the option? Sure the "other" option still says that there's more out there that people want but that doesn't tell us much if everyone is rooting for completely different people. I just don't see what such an option would tell us, especially if it falls somewhere in the middle as then it wouldn't even tell the audience whether this is the end of the importance list or if we still have many areas to explore. It'll just say "Meh". Plus how will that work in the last round? How am I supposed to quantify how much I want other over Timurids if I don't know what other we're talking about? It's your list, I'm not trying to strong arm you to change it, just saying I don't understand the rationale.
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Returning Lurker
Prince
Aborigines 20-3=17
Algonquian (any) 20
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 21
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 20
Franks 20
Inuit 17
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 20+1=21
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 20
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 20
I actually wouldn't mind Aboriginal inclusion, but I feel like trying to bring them in would run into the exact same cultural and social problems as they encountered when they tried to include Pueblo way back in Bnw. I suppose that, until we ask, we won't know how they'd respond to inclusion in this game but from what I've read Aboriginals are quite protective of their culture and quite concerned with their representation in media so I feel like this may be a waste of time. Also yes, I do know that some devs make the claim that they left out references to Aboriginal elements in their portrayal of Australia due to the possibility of future inclusion but I am fairly confident that that is just far off "what ifs" to leave their options open rather than a serious commitment to the idea.
As for the Olmecs they ARE the mother of all Meso-America. Yes, I admit that city names will be hard. But city names didn't stop them from including Scythia, Huns, or pretty much any Native tribe as most of their city lists are just the names of places they are known to have inhabited at some point and not actual cities or permanent settlements. And unlike the ones I just named Olmec actually did have plenty of cities we just don't know their original names. I think an effort needs to be made here as this is the Sumer/Ur/Babylon of the Americas and as such they deserve their spot at the table.
Algonquian (any) 20
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 21
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 20
Franks 20
Inuit 17
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 20+1=21
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 20
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 20
I actually wouldn't mind Aboriginal inclusion, but I feel like trying to bring them in would run into the exact same cultural and social problems as they encountered when they tried to include Pueblo way back in Bnw. I suppose that, until we ask, we won't know how they'd respond to inclusion in this game but from what I've read Aboriginals are quite protective of their culture and quite concerned with their representation in media so I feel like this may be a waste of time. Also yes, I do know that some devs make the claim that they left out references to Aboriginal elements in their portrayal of Australia due to the possibility of future inclusion but I am fairly confident that that is just far off "what ifs" to leave their options open rather than a serious commitment to the idea.
As for the Olmecs they ARE the mother of all Meso-America. Yes, I admit that city names will be hard. But city names didn't stop them from including Scythia, Huns, or pretty much any Native tribe as most of their city lists are just the names of places they are known to have inhabited at some point and not actual cities or permanent settlements. And unlike the ones I just named Olmec actually did have plenty of cities we just don't know their original names. I think an effort needs to be made here as this is the Sumer/Ur/Babylon of the Americas and as such they deserve their spot at the table.
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Aborigines 17
Algonquian (any) 20
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 18 (22-3) The only reason for having this is because the english civ right now doesn't go to well with the Anglo-Saxons. But why should it? Germany also encompasses abilities from many centuries and different times. I can accept Macedonia because Alexander is one of the most famous and important persons in history - Alfred would be a nice leader for England, but he would rank a few thousand places behind Alexander, so they should not do a Anglo-Saxon just for including him.
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 20
Franks 20
Inuit 17
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 21
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 20
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 21 (20+1) There's almost no way this cannot win, so I might already start voting it up. We didn't vote on Genoa for example, which is not unlikely to be included. Or a Malay or a Brunei civ, also possible candidates for coming soon. Singapore, I wouldn't like it that much for example. But I won't down vote Malay just because I don't like Singapore, right? Good thing there are at least 2 options here that I'd prefer to Genoa or a Malay civ. But still...
Algonquian (any) 20
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 18 (22-3) The only reason for having this is because the english civ right now doesn't go to well with the Anglo-Saxons. But why should it? Germany also encompasses abilities from many centuries and different times. I can accept Macedonia because Alexander is one of the most famous and important persons in history - Alfred would be a nice leader for England, but he would rank a few thousand places behind Alexander, so they should not do a Anglo-Saxon just for including him.
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 20
Franks 20
Inuit 17
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 21
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 20
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 21 (20+1) There's almost no way this cannot win, so I might already start voting it up. We didn't vote on Genoa for example, which is not unlikely to be included. Or a Malay or a Brunei civ, also possible candidates for coming soon. Singapore, I wouldn't like it that much for example. But I won't down vote Malay just because I don't like Singapore, right? Good thing there are at least 2 options here that I'd prefer to Genoa or a Malay civ. But still...
Oh my god, Bohemia is here! Thanks!
Aborigines 17
Algonquian (any) 20
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 18
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 20+1=21 - I've already mentioned I'm Czech, so my first upvote obviously goes here. This country has very long and rich history. Variety of leaders to pick. Ottokar II, Wenceslaus II, Charles IV, T. G. Masaryk... Bohemia under Charles IV was strong, rich and educated country. It was one of the most industrial and richest parts of Austria-Hungary. Czechoslovakia before Great Depression was one of the richest and most industrial countries in the world. Beautiful country with lots of natural and architectonical wonders. It would be easy to make a Bohemian Civ.
Franks 20
Inuit 17
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 21
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 20-3=17 - Ukraine was mostly under Poland, Russia or someone else in history - it fighted for independence and gained it after dissolution of USSR. And Cossacks aren't good idea either - they're too similar to Russia. In fact, Cossack is already Russian UU, right?
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 21
Aborigines 17
Algonquian (any) 20
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 18
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 20+1=21 - I've already mentioned I'm Czech, so my first upvote obviously goes here. This country has very long and rich history. Variety of leaders to pick. Ottokar II, Wenceslaus II, Charles IV, T. G. Masaryk... Bohemia under Charles IV was strong, rich and educated country. It was one of the most industrial and richest parts of Austria-Hungary. Czechoslovakia before Great Depression was one of the richest and most industrial countries in the world. Beautiful country with lots of natural and architectonical wonders. It would be easy to make a Bohemian Civ.
Franks 20
Inuit 17
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 21
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 20-3=17 - Ukraine was mostly under Poland, Russia or someone else in history - it fighted for independence and gained it after dissolution of USSR. And Cossacks aren't good idea either - they're too similar to Russia. In fact, Cossack is already Russian UU, right?
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 21
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Aborigines 17
Algonquian (any) 20
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 18
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 21
Franks 20 - 3 = 17 This does not interest me, and I do not think it is necessary.
Inuit 17
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 21 + 1 = 22 I want this too much, but they are very obscure. I remember that I attributed down votes to the Toltecs for the same reason in round 01. But my desire to see the Olmecs being included someday is too great, I am not able to cast a negative vote for them, even though I know there is not enough information about them.
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 17
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 21
Algonquian (any) 20
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 18
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 21
Franks 20 - 3 = 17 This does not interest me, and I do not think it is necessary.
Inuit 17
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 21 + 1 = 22 I want this too much, but they are very obscure. I remember that I attributed down votes to the Toltecs for the same reason in round 01. But my desire to see the Olmecs being included someday is too great, I am not able to cast a negative vote for them, even though I know there is not enough information about them.
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 17
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 21
WillowBrook
Lurker
Aborigines 17
Algonquian (any) 21 (20+1) we need more native north American civs
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 18
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 21 -
Franks 17
Inuit 17
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 22
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 17
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 18 (21-3) I don't know much about most of the civs on this list, so I want to give people a chance to make the case for their favorites before I down vote any
Algonquian (any) 21 (20+1) we need more native north American civs
Anasazi/Navajo/Other SW NA 20
Anglo-Saxons 18
Bohemians/Czechs/Great Moravia 21 -
Franks 17
Inuit 17
Lithuanians/Finns/Other Baltic 20
Kanem-Bornu/Other Saharan 20
Malagasy/Imerina 20
Mitanni/Hurrians 20
Nazca/Moche/Muisca/Other Andean 20
Olmecs/Mixe-Zoque/Other Mesoamerican 22
Philippines 20
Sabaeans/Himyarites/Yemen 20
Swiss/Belgians/Other Western Europe 20
Tamil/Chola/Sri Lankans 20
Ukrainians/Cossacks 17
Xiongnu/Yuezhi/Other Steppe 20
Other Civ/Not Listed 18 (21-3) I don't know much about most of the civs on this list, so I want to give people a chance to make the case for their favorites before I down vote any
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