Never Before Seen Civs - Elimination Game

[Kimiimaro]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 22
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 10
Carthaginians 4 - Carthage is so low I'd try save it, but that would be probably futile now, so I'll try to save something other, that has a chance yet.
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 15
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 12
Hebrews 8+1=9 - Venice was a city-state (although controlling quite large territories) and yet you could play as it in Civ V. Hebrews had several cities. They aren't a city-state, and with the religious victory, this is the game where they could show their large religious influence.
Hittites 16
Incas 24
Iroquois 2-3=-1 (ELIMINATED) - Time for some other tribe.
Khmer 23
Koreans 23
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 23
Mayans 24
Mongols 21
Ottoman Turks 20
Tibetans 12

 

[Morningcalm]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 22
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 10
Carthaginians 4
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 15
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 12 - 3 = 9 (Less important than the Iroquois, and lack well-attested leaders compared to the Iroquois. Prior suggestions in other threads for Haida/Tlingit/PNW leaders include an assortment of minor village chiefs and raiders who attacked fur traders. Also, they are described as the Vikings of their (Canadian and other PNW) area. I don't think reskinned Vikings are what Civ VI needs right now.)
Hebrews 9 + 1 = 10 - The Kingdom of Judah was not a city state, and Hezekiah and Salome Alexandra presided over a fairly large chunk of land containing dozens upon dozens of cities. Jerusalem was merely the capital. Let me point out that Ur, Tikal, Palenque and Venice were city-states; heck, even Babylon was at one time, and the Sumerians, Mayans, Venice, and Babylon have all appeared in Civ before. It's time for the Hebrews to shine their religious, cultural and defensive influence in the first Civ game to feature a religious victory. The Hebrew absence is conspicuous in light of the presence of India and Arabia.
Hittites 16
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 23
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 23
Mayans 24
Mongols 21
Ottoman Turks 20
Tibetans 12

 

[luigilime]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 22
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 10
Carthaginians 4
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 15
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 9
Hebrews 10-3=7 they had a very strange history, when they were all together they got pushed around by the other civilisations, leaving multiple times their home land, then when the diaspora came to be they were divided all around the world never being the major in any place, it is impossible to have a civilization based on this since it would rather be inaccurate or there has to be a new immigrant mechanic just for them to be in the game. Not worth it.
Hittites 16
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 23
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 23+1=24 I prefer the maōri than that awkward conglomeration that was Polynesia in civ 5, and besides it would be an interesting way to represent New Zealand without another nauseating colonial civilization
Mayans 24
Mongols 21
Ottoman Turks 20
Tibetans 12

 

[Guandao]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 22
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) (10+1)=11 Benin (Nigeria) was made into a well-known Civ5 mod by the modder Tomatekh. And another modder made a Dahomey mod. I don't find them any less worthy than the Ashanti when it comes to representing the West African Coast. Besides, I like Ewuare's appearance more than the Kente cloth covered Osei Kofi Tutu.
Carthaginians 4
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 15
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 9
Hebrews 7
Hittites (16-3)=13 How are they still here? While Carthage is dying? They haven't returned since Civ3, and I think it's because Firaxis has problems searching for a linguist who specializes in Hittite/Luwian languages. I don't want another repeat of Gilgamesh speaking Old Akkadian again. The Hittites spoke the world's oldest attested Indo-European language, and I will take no other option besides than or Luwian.
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 23
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 24
Mayans 24
Mongols 21
Ottoman Turks 20
Tibetans 12

 

[Zaarin]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 22
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 11
Carthaginians 4
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 15
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 9
Hebrews 7
Hittites 13
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24 (23 + 1) -- Of all civilizations not currently in game, I confess I want Korea back the most. Ideally I'd like to see a Three Kingdoms-era ruler, particularly Seondeok of Silla--but I won't object to the return of Sejong if that must be.
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 21 (24 - 3) -- I see you sneaking off on a runaway victory, and I won't stand for it.
Mayans 24
Mongols 21
Ottoman Turks 20
Tibetans 12

 

[Manifold]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 22
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 8 (11-3) Old Ghana for West-Africa
Carthaginians 4
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 15
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 9
Hebrews 7
Hittites 13
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 21
Mayans 24
Mongols 22 (21+1)
Ottoman Turks 20
Tibetans 12

 

[conorbebe]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 22
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 8
Carthaginians 4
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 12 (15 - 3) It hurts to do this.
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 9
Hebrews 7
Hittites 13
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 22 (21 + 1) Gotta keep you in the big league <3
Mayans 24
Mongols 22
Ottoman Turks 20
Tibetans 12

 

[The Kingmaker]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 22
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 11
Carthaginians 4
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 12
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 9
Hebrews 7+1=8 Still standing. Still not really a city-state.
Hittites 13-3=10 It hurts to downvote a civ I find so fascinating. But the world largely forgot them. For a long time, the Hebrew scriptures were virtually the only thing hinting that they had ever existed.
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 22
Mayans 24
Mongols 21
Ottoman Turks 20
Tibetans 12

 

[Zaarin]

Hittites 13-3=10 It hurts to downvote a civ I find so fascinating. But the world largely forgot them. For a long time, the Hebrew scriptures were virtually the only thing hinting that they had ever existed.

Wrong Hittites. The Hittites in the Bible were a Canaanite tribe. That being said, the Philistines may have been Anatolian-speakers (most scholars agree the linguistic evident suggests they spoke an Indo-European language, with a Hellenic language [either Greek or a close relative] or Anatolian language being the leading hypotheses). Also the Hittites are well-documented in Egyptian and Babylonian records as well. It was really only their language that was lost until the twentieth century, where its discovery conveniently proved Saussure's laryngeal theory.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Wrong Hittites. The Hittites in the Bible were a Canaanite tribe. That being said, the Philistines may have been Anatolian-speakers (most scholars agree the linguistic evident suggests they spoke an Indo-European language, with a Hellenic language [either Greek or a close relative] or Anatolian language being the leading hypotheses). Also the Hittites are well-documented in Egyptian and Babylonian records as well. It was really only their language that was lost until the twentieth century, where its discovery conveniently proved Saussure's laryngeal theory.

Yes, well aware of all that. Biblical Hittites were much more akin to these guys. There's still some continuity there, but the big glory days of Hattusha took place mostly during the Books of Genesis and Exodus. Though there was that effort to conflate the "Tidal, King of Goyim" who fought against Abraham with the Hittite King Tudhaliya, tenuous though that theory may be.

As for well-documented Egyptian and Babylonian records, how many of those were readily available and in translation in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th centuries? The Hittites remained a subject of biblical obscurity until Egyptians hieroglyphics were translated in the 19th and Hittite ruins properly identified in the 20th century. In historical terms, that's practically yesterday.

It was the Bible that prompted such western curiosity in the first place, and what prompted dubbing the people of Hatti "the Hittites," when they had generally called themselves Neshili... Neshites, if you will.

 

[Amrunril]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 19 (22 - 3) I'd like to see more ancient Mesopotamian civs eventually, but I think that adding civs to the Americas, Africa and Southeast Asia takes precedence, and when it does come time, I'm not sure why Babylon is such an obvious choice over Assyria or the Hittites. And while I'm sure there are other ability options, I'd be disappointed to see another science-focused Babylon- I'm tired of Ancient era civs whose primary bonus is towards getting out of the Ancient era as quickly as possible.
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 11
Carthaginians 4
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 12
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 10 (9 + 1)These civs are just like the Vikings, in that the Vikings created one of the world's most distinct and iconic art styles (best, though certainly not exclusively exemplified through crest poles) and created some of their continents' largest population centers without the use of large scale agriculture. Except that they didn't. These civs may have done some coastal raiding, but that isn't why anyone's excited about them, nor would it likely be a primary focus of their abilities.
Hebrews 8 My comments about city state status are only partly about size (and as much about relative size as absolute). Israel did/does have multiple cities, but I'm not convinced more than one would translate to cities in a system where a city includes "districts" and the surrounding countryside (though this is debatable because of the game's intentionally ambiguous scale). More important though, in my view, is the role that Israel played in local politics. Its interactions with Babylon and Persia in particular seem like exactly what the city state liberation mechanics are designed to represent.
Hittites 10
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 22
Mayans 24
Mongols 21
Ottoman Turks 20
Tibetans 12

 

[Kimiimaro]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 19
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 11
Carthaginians 4
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 12
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 10-3=7 - Some Native American Civ should clearly appear... But as I said several times, my interest in Native Americans was never really big, and I prefer the choice above to show up before them.
Hebrews 8+1=9 - If Sumer, which was bunch of City-States, could appear as a separate Civ, I don't see any reason why this shouldn't. I think it's a good choice. With religious victory present, it could show it's religious influence.
Hittites 10
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 22
Mayans 24
Mongols 21
Ottoman Turks 20
Tibetans 12

 

[luigilime]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 19
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 11
Carthaginians 4
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 12
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 7-3=4 don't really interest me at the moment
Hebrews 9
Hittites 10
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 22
Mayans 24
Mongols 21
Ottoman Turks 20+1=21 should have been in the game since the start
Tibetans 12

 

[Guandao]

Someone didn't take Manifold's votes into account, so I fixed it

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 19
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) (8+1)=9 Ghana? As in Modern day Ghana or the Saharan Ghana Empire? (of which we know barely anything about). Both would be bad choices for Civs. I don't find either of them less worthy to represent coastal West Africa than the Ashanti, so I will continue upvoting them till they are gone.
Carthaginians (4-3)=1 I'll downvote them, because they basically have a guaranteed spot in the expansions for Civ6. I don't think Firaxis will put Phoenicia in instead of them. They are practically in the game for being an enemy of Rome. I'm not worried about them not reappearing.
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 12
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 4
Hebrews 9
Hittites 10
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 22
Mayans 24
Mongols 22
Ottoman Turks 21
Tibetans 12

 

[Morningcalm]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 19
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 9
Carthaginians 1
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 12
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 4 - 3 = 1 (No well-attested leaders make them a no-no for Civ VI, which focuses on leader agendas and big personalities)
Hebrews 9 + 1 = 10 (Influential religiously with several big leaders, and could make a worthy appearance in the first Civ entry to have a religious victory)
Hittites 10
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 22
Mayans 24
Mongols 22
Ottoman Turks 21
Tibetans 12

 

[Siptah]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 19
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 9
Carthaginians 1
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 12
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 1
Hebrews 10
Hittites 10
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 22
Mayans 24
Mongols 22
Ottoman Turks 18 (21-3) An important empire, that I - except for the early stages - always found to be very dull.
Tibetans 13 (12+1) I'd ranke them third in history when it comes to religious victory (after Arabia and the Papal States). They converted the Mongols to their belief, even created a so-called priest-patron relationship with their rulers like Kubilai and Altan. This was done with China at some times as well and while China never had a notable Tibetan Buddhist population, quite some of it's leaders and royal family have had this belief. Sure, Christians and Muslims converted more leaders and population though.

 

[Zaarin]

Mmph. My Haida and Tlingits. No one is more unfortunate than poor Minister Zaarin.

Yes, well aware of all that. Biblical Hittites were much more akin to these guys. There's still some continuity there, but the big glory days of Hattusha took place mostly during the Books of Genesis and Exodus. Though there was that effort to conflate the "Tidal, King of Goyim" who fought against Abraham with the Hittite King Tudhaliya, tenuous though that theory may be.

As for well-documented Egyptian and Babylonian records, how many of those were readily available and in translation in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th centuries? The Hittites remained a subject of biblical obscurity until Egyptians hieroglyphics were translated in the 19th and Hittite ruins properly identified in the 20th century. In historical terms, that's practically yesterday.

It was the Bible that prompted such western curiosity in the first place, and what prompted dubbing the people of Hatti "the Hittites," when they had generally called themselves Neshili... Neshites, if you will.

You're completely right; I forgot how recently cuneiform and hieroglyphics were deciphered. And of course the Hittites were gone long before the Greeks started recording things, so no transmission there.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 19
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 9-3=6 Hard choices, especially when you want to see all of the options make it in the game.
Carthaginians 1
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 12
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 18
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 1
Hebrews 10+1=11 A glaring omission.
Hittites 10
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 22
Mayans 24
Mongols 22
Ottoman Turks 18
Tibetans 13

 

[Zaarin]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 19
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 6
Carthaginians 1
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 12
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 19 (18 + 1) -- The Caucasus is overdue for representation, and Tamar of Georgia would make an excellent Civ6 leader.
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 1
Hebrews 11
Hittites 10
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 19 (22 - 3) -- Not a high priority IMO.
Mayans 24
Mongols 22
Ottoman Turks 18
Tibetans 13

 

[XVeris]

Ashanti 18
Babylonians 19
Benin (Dahomey)/Benin (Nigeria) 6
Carthaginians 0 - ELIMINATED (1-3) - I love the Carthaginians, I think they would be a good addition, but I think they need to be put down for now. There are other nations that would be better additions before them from the Mediterranean area.
Creek/Muskogee/Other SE NA 12
Ethiopians 22
Georgians 19
Haida/Tlingit/Other PNW 1
Hebrews 11
Hittites 11 (10+1) - The Hittites have been out of the series since Civ III, so I think they deserve a return to the game.
Incas 24
Khmer 23
Koreans 24
Malians 22
Maori/Other Polynesians 19
Mayans 24
Mongols 22
Ottoman Turks 18
Tibetans 13