New Beta - March 7th (3/7)

[Gazebo]

I know I'm known for being overly conservative. But could you please flip them back? You can flip the techs they unlock for all I care but the Garden have always been the Garden, randomly changing it is going to make new people feel even more alienated.

Also, your logic for Baths needing access to water and Gardens not is kinda flawed, Gardens need plenty of water.
If this really is a tick for you, replace the Bath with something else, just leave the garden alone.




This isn't about something being good or not, it's about it looking boring.
For the Kuna, the improvement alone is super-restrictive, you need forests/jungle and you can't build them next to each other. That might not sound like much, but it is actually really restrictive.

I'm not opposed to modifying the Kuna's yields later, but the +2 science was overperforming.

Re: Baths/Gardens, it is more that just a water issue, it was a matter of benefit (wells come earlier, benefiting non-freshwater cities, thus baths - coming earlier than gardens - needed to benefit river cities for balance). It wasn't a change for change's sake, it was a balance choice.

 

[BenchBreaker]

invest in a building would not update the number of turns needed or at least there seems to be a lag

 

[Gazebo]

invest in a building would not update the number of turns needed or at least there seems to be a lag

That's an EUI caching issue, can't control that.
G

 

[Funak]

I'm not opposed to modifying the Kuna's yields later, but the +2 science was overperforming.

That's all I'm asking.

Re: Baths/Gardens, it is more that just a water issue, it was a matter of benefit (wells come earlier, benefiting non-freshwater cities, thus baths - coming earlier than gardens - needed to benefit river cities for balance). It wasn't a change for change's sake, it was a balance choice.

So switch the techs they unlock instead? Or move the bath to Theology instead. It might have been a balance issue but it was not a balance solution.

On a second note, I don't really think anyone was complaining about river-cities being in a bad spot compared to non-river cities.

 

[Gazebo]

That's all I'm asking.

So switch the techs they unlock instead? Or move the bath to Theology instead. It might have been a balance issue but it was not a balance solution.

On a second note, I don't really think anyone was complaining about river-cities being in a bad spot compared to non-river cities.

Baths are a classical era invention. Roman Baths. You know how it is.

I really, really don't see the big deal, and I think you're making more of this than necessary.

 

[ilteroi]

Acronyms do not concern me, admiral, I want them found.

Honestly, it doesn't matter what the reasoning behind it is, the button used to be there, now it isn't there anymore, can we have it back?


Another thing, I had a huge bug to report, but I seem to have misplaced it, was saving it for my next post. Anyways there is a huge bug somewhere and someone should probably find it

well, my bad.

the vanished button was a side-effect of a change of mine, so not exactly intentional. i'll try and restore it.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

As for the Kuna it looks good in Ancient but not in Medieval.

For the Walls of Babylon, how about it gives some Gold for the other part of the UA.

 

[Funak]

well, my bad.

the vanished button was a side-effect of a change of mine, so not exactly intentional. i'll try and restore it.

Thank you.

Baths are a classical era invention. Roman Baths. You know how it is.

I really, really don't see the big deal, and I think you're making more of this than necessary.

Then move the Garden earlier?
From the wikia "The earliest known garden plan is Egyptian and dates back to 1400 BC".

I might be blowing this out of proportions, but the Garden is an established vanilla building, even first-timers knows where you can build a Garden and what a Garden is supposed to do. Returning players know what Baths is and what a Garden is, this change is just making this unnecessarily complicated for not really good enough reasons.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Kuna is still superior to Lumbermill at every point in the game and is available instantly, while it's +2Faith guarantees you a strong religion game. It really doesn't need a buff, that +1Science is still worth about as much - if not more - as +2 science was pre-science rework. If that's boring, why is Eki's +1F+1P+1C not boring? Kuna also easily gets +1Food from Herbalist (very early) with no need for any adjacent farms.

When is next version going to be released? I am reluctant to try the current beta due to the Great General bug I heard about.

I might be blowing this out of proportions, but the Garden is an established vanilla building, even first-timers knows where you can build a Garden and what a Garden is supposed to do. Returning players know what Baths is and what a Garden is, this change is just making this unnecessarily complicated for not really good enough reasons.
Funak is online now Report Post Reply With Quote

Must agree, Garden was always the River GP building, I find the change unnecessary as well.

 

[Gazebo]

Kuna is still superior to Lumbermill at every point in the game and is available instantly, while it's +2Faith guarantees you a strong religion game. It really doesn't need a buff, that +1Science is still worth about as much - if not more - as +2 science was pre-science rework. If that's boring, why is Eki's +1F+1P+1C not boring? Kuna also easily gets +1Food from Herbalist (very early) with no need for any adjacent farms.

When is next version going to be released? I am reluctant to try the current beta due to the Great General bug I heard about.

I'm going to release one more beta, due to an unforeseen caching issue with the new religious classes structuring. Should be out later today. Will also include a couple minor changes (i.e. musketeer) We'll give that one a spin, see if there are any religions missing their functionality, and then we'll be good to go.

G

 

[Antik]

I am getting CTD at start of new turn. EUI version, all mods from installer(3/7 version). Do you know where is the problem?. thx for help
file: http://www.filedropper.com/cvminidump

Well guys thx for welcoming me here... I posted second time here with same problem(1st time in posted in bugs), but get ignored. I am no trying to be rude, I realy like this mod, you are doing amazing work. I am just frustrated, because of these ctd.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

A little, yeah. Could make it give baths, though (to be fair) it is the the strongest of the three ancient policy wonders at this point.

G

What if completing the Hanging Gardens just invested in bath / garden, whichever is appropriate? And if that's too weak in practice, tack on 5% GPP bonus or something.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Well guys thx for welcoming me here... I posted second time here with same problem(1st time in posted in bugs), but get ignored. I am no trying to be rude, I realy like this mod, you are doing amazing work. I am just frustrated, because of these ctd.

Sometimes the forum can be byzantine. I'd ask this question in the bug thread or in the installer thread, since this is kind of about the beta. The snark won't make people help any faster though. Remember, everyone working on this is doing it for the love (and / or they are unavoidably compelled to do civ-related stuff because of the Firaxis brain parasite that I'm convinced is transferred through the skull by looking at a game of civ.).

 

[tu_79]

Do you want baths/gardens to be realistic or balanced?

I don't like how baths works in the last version. It gives cities without fresh water more or less the same buildings and bonuses than the others. In BNW you settle where there is fresh water because it allows a far better city. Now it is only slightly better.

I think that any terrain but desert and tundra has access to water, making life possible. What we see in map are big rivers and lakes, great for irrigation, sanitation and transport. So I think we can have baths or gardens even in cities not near to those big rivers and lakes.

I am all for balance, so having unique buildings for cities without fresh water seems fine, I am just disliking baths and gardens have both the same bonus. To me, baths are for sanitation and gardens are for happiness or culture. Sanitation leads to bigger cities and gardens may lead to more great people. Different bonus, but equal opportunities.

 

[Funak]

Kuna is still superior to Lumbermill at every point in the game and is available instantly, while it's +2Faith guarantees you a strong religion game. It really doesn't need a buff, that +1Science is still worth about as much - if not more - as +2 science was pre-science rework. If that's boring, why is Eki's +1F+1P+1C not boring? Kuna also easily gets +1Food from Herbalist (very early) with no need for any adjacent farms.

First of all, a Kuna is not always superior to a lumbermill as you can't build a Kuna next to another Kuna, meaning there are situations where you're still going to be building lumbermills (that situation does not exist as brazil for example).

Second the Eki have empire-building yields, they have always been (imo) more fun. More food, production and culture means you're going to have more population, more buildings and more tiles to work. Also, the Eki is rarely actually going to provide you with just 1 hammer, most of the time it provides you with 2 or 3 hammers (from adjacency), and you're going to have a lot more Eki than Kuna. I can understand the argument about the Kuna still being powerful, it just looks boring.




By the way G. The tradition policy Splendor or whatever it's called still adds culture to the garden (should be bath if they got swapped)

 

[bane_]

(and / or they are unavoidably compelled to do civ-related stuff because of the Firaxis brain parasite that I'm convinced is transferred through the skull by looking at a game of civ.)

Now it all makes sense!

 

[JFD]

Just wanted to stop by and say that everything plot/yield related appears to be working perfectly. I'll get to merging those Religion Overview changes asap. Thanks!

 

[Gazebo]

Well guys thx for welcoming me here... I posted second time here with same problem(1st time in posted in bugs), but get ignored. I am no trying to be rude, I realy like this mod, you are doing amazing work. I am just frustrated, because of these ctd.

You weren't ignored - I looked at your CTD, and it broke to disassembly, which means that it is either a mod conflict or a bad install. I haven't told you that yet because I'm not done debugging the current DLL.

Besides, CTDs should really end up in the bug reports thread, not here. I can't track down every attached file in every thread.

G

 

[Gazebo]

Just wanted to stop by and say that everything plot/yield related appears to be working perfectly. I'll get to merging those Religion Overview changes asap. Thanks!

Awesome! It may've slowed things down just a hair to have iteration through all yields, but it is worth it for compatibility.

By the way G. The tradition policy Splendor or whatever it's called still adds culture to the garden (should be bath if they got swapped)

Should probably just add Culture to both, truth be told.

G

 

[Funak]

Should probably just add Culture to both, truth be told.

Would probably end up being less confusing that way anyways