New Beta Version - 1-11 (1/11)

[Recursive]

Can human players ask the AI the same thing? If not it's not balanced.

While the AI can ask you to knock it off if you bully or attack their City-States (and if you break a City-State conquest promise, you get a global diplo penalty), the diplo logic handles it on the AI side by having them approach you and say "we bullied/attacked your City-State, what are you gonna do about it?"

But you don't get the option to ask them to stop; you can either choose between a 10 opinion penalty for the next 10 turns, or giving in to the AI (giving up your PTP and losing 20 Influence). Taking the opinion hit is almost always worth it, which makes it a rather meaningless decision. I don't like this system and I plan on improving it in the future.

 

[JamesNinelives]

Taking the opinion hit is almost always worth it, which makes it a rather meaningless decision. I don't like this system and I plan on improving it in the future.

I've always felt the other option was there for if you really don't want them to declare war on you (I think I've had that happen once in response?). Happy to see what you come up with though!

 

[crdvis16]

I always skip trailblazer III right now. Maybe the ZOC ignore could be on TRIII?

My default with pathfinders is almost always Trail I, II -> sight/movement. My goal with my pathfinder is to explore my continent ASAP and then hit the ocean and, if possible, find the rest of the world. Finding CSs and other civs as early as possible is really helpful- cheaper techs, more quests, etc. High mobility + sight accomplishes that goal the fastest.

The obvious caveat is that your pathfinder can't explore anything if he's dead which should be an argument for survivalism. However, Trail II ignoring ZoC means you don't really get hit by barbarians anymore if you're somewhat careful and once you tack on sight/movement promotions it becomes trivial to not die. The result is that Trail I,II -> sight/movement explores the fastest, promotes the fastest, and keeps your pathfinder alive arguably the best past the very early game.

I suppose the other argument for survivalism would be if you're using your pathfinder more for early combat, in which case more CS and healing while positioned to disrupt enemy ZoC would be better than more mobility most likely. I personally just so rarely use a pathfinder that way when finding more CSs/civs seems so much more important.

The only time I've found myself getting survivalism early is if I'm slow to get an initial warrior out and I'm getting badly harassed by barbarians. In those situations my pathfinder is likely perched in a defensive spot next to my capital taking hits from barbarians while fortified at which point the CS bonus from survivalism is helpful (though the healing outside of friendly territory isn't).

Given that the player will now start with a warrior there will be a much smaller chance of the above happening so I will probably lean even more heavily into Trail I,II -> sight/ movement. I think it's just the stronger/faster/better path.

Having said all that, I think moving the "ignore ZoC" aspect of the Trail line to Trail III would at least give me a little more pause. Your pathfinder would have a much higher chance of getting trapped and killed. It might make survivalism more attractive as a slower but safer path. I'd still probably go Trail first, though.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Only a short report what was already posted by someone.
The celts in my game picked syncretism, which makes absolutely no sense, cause they didn't get any pressure from outside and with it not one foreign follower which would trigger syncretism.

 

[CrazyG]

Only a short report what was already posted by someone.
The celts in my game picked syncretism, which makes absolutely no sense, cause they didn't get any pressure from outside and with it not one foreign follower which would trigger syncretism.

India in my game picked Way of the Pilgrim..............

My default with pathfinders is almost always Trail I, II -> sight/movement. My goal with my pathfinder is to explore my continent ASAP and then hit the ocean and, if possible, find the rest of the world.

That is usually what I do, unless its really clear my continent is small and I want the pathfinder to help fight.

 

[JamesNinelives]

The result is that Trail I,II -> sight/movement explores the fastest, promotes the fastest, and keeps your pathfinder alive arguably the best past the very early game.

The most important and difficult time to stay alive is the first 10-20 turns though, and loosing your pathfinder early is super sad.

Certainly trailblazer I and II give some survivability as well as mobility, so that's where I start. The extra sight promotions are similarly really good (and possibly the best recon promotions IMO). On many occasions though I have had a low-level pathfinder where I could have chosen one of those promotions and didn't, because without survivalism it would have been much less likely to stay alive.

However, Trail II ignoring ZoC means you don't really get hit by barbarians anymore if you're somewhat careful and once you tack on sight/movement promotions it becomes trivial to not die.

Sure, once you have 4 or 5 promotions it's significantly easier to keep your recon units alive. I think it's misleading to claim that not dying is trivial though, even if you are careful. It is very easy to be over-confident with a highly mobile but relatively squishy unit. More than a couple of times I've put my scout somewhere I thought was safe but turned out not to be. For example, most of the ancient ruins that are unclaimed after the very early game either have barbarians 'protecting' it, or are on an island (which are dangerous because you have limited vision while approaching embarked). IMO the survival promotions are essential to keeping that potentially very high-level unit alive in the long-term, and having a high-level recon unit in your army can be a very powerful asset.

I'd still probably go Trail first, though.

I actually agree, I just wanted to highlight the situations the survival promotions are good in because it's an area where I've done a lot of trial-and-error (and I've found them quite valuable).

 

[Recursive]

I've always felt the other option was there for if you really don't want them to declare war on you (I think I've had that happen once in response?). Happy to see what you come up with though!

Declaring war immediately in response (as if insulted) is not possible according to the code IIRC, and a hit of 10 opinion for 10 turns won't make much of a difference.

 

[Recursive]

As for what I plan to come up with - I want any request the AI can make to also be possible for the human to make. Symmetry.

 

[JamesNinelives]

Declaring war immediately in response (as if insulted) is not possible according to the code IIRC, and a hit of 10 opinion for 10 turns won't make much of a difference.

I must be confusing it with other diplo screen popups.

 

[a1nosugar]

As the last version of the mod which supports modpacks (for the time being) can we retrospectively label this version as non-beta?

 

[Omen of Peace]

I made a modpack with the Feb 9th version?
(And I actually had issues making one with the Jan version IIRC.)

It works fine, except the Monopoly/Corporation button doesn't show up - but I didn't investigate, to be honest.