New Beta Version - April 9th (4/9)

[phantomaxl1207]

They were pretty crazy during the classical era, but as they are now I don't really see much use for them, +3 CS at the cost of one movement point is hardly worth it.

We really need to get around to fixing some of the more pointless unique units. The fact that a military city-state with Cataphract(for example) unique unit is worse than a military city-state with no unique unit is troubling to me.

Cataphracts on a Citadel are pretty Great: that's like 36 CS. Maybe it is somewhat unfortunate that the defensive capabilities of the Cataphract cost some movement, unlike the Panzer. It's mostly fine for Byzantium in staying safe.

On another note, Mohawks seem weak cause they don't come w/ Woodsman when gifted.

 

[BenchBreaker]

They were pretty crazy during the classical era, but as they are now I don't really see much use for them, +3 CS at the cost of one movement point is hardly worth it.

They also get terrain defense bonus which is huge, they basically take no damage in forests

 

[Funak]

Cataphracts on a Citadel are pretty Great: that's like 36 CS. Maybe it is somewhat unfortunate that the defensive capabilities of the Cataphract cost some movement, unlike the Panzer. It's mostly fine for Byzantium in staying safe.

On another note, Mohawks seem weak cause they don't come w/ Woodsman when gifted.

See, here is the difference, when a Mohawk gets upgraded you're getting a longswordsman with a 33% combat-bonus in forest/jungle. When you upgrade a Cataphract you get a knight. And if you are allied with a city-state that specializes on Cataphracts, that's the only unit you're going to get from the city-state until you've researched Metallurgy, meaning between chivalry and Metallurgy you get a unit that you have to spend gold on to upgrade which turns it into a standard knight.


On the subject of standing on citadels, that's a very limited use for a unique unit.

 

[dschur]

I am experiencing what seems to be a bug with Inquisitors. It seems that they are not doing anything. Tried a few times to be sure I didn't make an error.

I have a religion (Taoism if it matters), just conquered Mayans, and want to remove their religion (Hindu) from their capital. Fire up an Inquisitor (my holy city, my majority religion, although there is one Hindu follower there). Send him over to the former Mayan capitol after conquest...and nothing. It is still the Hindu holy city, and it still ahs the same number of Hindu followers.

Also tried on a few other cities to remove former religion and same result

 

[Adonis VII]

I am experiencing what seems to be a bug with Inquisitors. It seems that they are not doing anything. Tried a few times to be sure I didn't make an error.

I have a religion (Taoism if it matters), just conquered Mayans, and want to remove their religion (Hindu) from their capital. Fire up an Inquisitor (my holy city, my majority religion, although there is one Hindu follower there). Send him over to the former Mayan capitol after conquest...and nothing. It is still the Hindu holy city, and it still ahs the same number of Hindu followers.

Also tried on a few other cities to remove former religion and same result

I had the same issue. They worked fine first couple of conquered cities. About Renaissance era they would then remove 0 or 1 of the opposing faith instead of all.

 

[BenchBreaker]

I am experiencing what seems to be a bug with Inquisitors. It seems that they are not doing anything. Tried a few times to be sure I didn't make an error.

I have a religion (Taoism if it matters), just conquered Mayans, and want to remove their religion (Hindu) from their capital. Fire up an Inquisitor (my holy city, my majority religion, although there is one Hindu follower there). Send him over to the former Mayan capitol after conquest...and nothing. It is still the Hindu holy city, and it still ahs the same number of Hindu followers.

Also tried on a few other cities to remove former religion and same result

It's likely that the religion you are trying to remove has the belief that makes it resistant to erasure, which means only half of the religious pressure built up is removed by inquisitors and prophets, so the remaining half would still be greater than the 1250 pressure dished out by inquisitors

 

[Deadstarre]

i'd still pick authority, so progress cant be all that op.

unless youre making really bad building decisions those hammers are all you need to get... well, anything you need. you dont need to ask where science in the tree comes from when every city can build whatever it wants in a very timely fashion.

what did strike me was how progress/authority are starting to look better than statecraft/piety. im not gonna include aesthetics because that tree actually seems op to me. my last 2 deity games with authority/aesthetics felt embarrassingly easy. i'd say it was partly because when you can get a culture lead you get whatever wonders you want- culture is all-important at the moment and nobody gets the culture (or any) buildings up faster than authority. all you need to do to win is keep planting cities

 

[dschur]

It's likely that the religion you are trying to remove has the belief that makes it resistant to erasure, which means only half of the religious pressure built up is removed by inquisitors and prophets, so the remaining half would still be greater than the 1250 pressure dished out by inquisitors

OK thanks. It must be this. I can, it seems, slowly chip away at it, but it seems to take many inquisitors to do the job

Not a bug.

 

[tompliss]

I found a bug I haven't read about here :
I had the event with non-believers in a city with a temple. I choose to let them (have 50% chances to) destroy it. It was destroyed, but here comes the bug :
I had invested in the temple during its initial construction, and it was still invested after destruction.

 

[xkander]

I don't know if i's a bug, but I received the free Forge with Statue of Zeus, before to research Iron Working

 

[Natura]

Being isolated pretty much always kills the game, main reason why I don't play island-maps ever.

He wasn't isolated; only coast tiles separated him from 3 other empires, plus he had numerous city states on his continent. This was also on Communitas, which I understand is the default map script for CPP.

What may be driving the behaviour (and I have no idea about this since I'm not a coder) is that despite being more or less in a completely failed position where recovery is all but impossible, he's still second on the scoreboard.

 

[pandasnail]

I don't know if i's a bug, but I received the free Forge with Statue of Zeus, before to research Metal Casting

Metal Casting? Forges are on Iron Working. But also, yes, that's not a bug. Hanging Gardens does the same with an even bigger gap to regular gardens.

 

[xkander]

Metal Casting? Forges are on Iron Working. But also, yes, that's not a bug. Hanging Gardens does the same with an even bigger gap to regular gardens.

Yes, that was Iron Working

 

[Funak]

He wasn't isolated; only coast tiles separated him from 3 other empires, plus he had numerous city states on his continent. This was also on Communitas, which I understand is the default map script for CPP.

What may be driving the behaviour (and I have no idea about this since I'm not a coder) is that despite being more or less in a completely failed position where recovery is all but impossible, he's still second on the scoreboard.

Please don't make assumptions like that. The communitas mapscript certainly not the default go-to script for CPP, it was included and updated because someone asked for it, nothing more than that. This sort of thing does happen on the communitas map, because it is just way too big, if someone spawns slightly alone and out of range for sending trade-routes, they are pretty much isolated.

But no this probably has absolutely nothing to do with him spamming cities, 10 cities aren't even that much as in general the Civs that do overexpand are usually still the ones that do the best. This is probably all due to him building a bunch of units and not having any trade-routes to run meaning his negative gold reducing his science per turn down to 0, I've been in that situation plenty of times myself, but I usually manage to recover somehow.

 

[Strigvir]

What may be driving the behaviour (and I have no idea about this since I'm not a coder) is that despite being more or less in a completely failed position where recovery is all but impossible, he's still second on the scoreboard.

More like it is a flaw of a military score in general - it favours unit spam more than anything. I think it should also take XP of all units present in the equation somehow. Due to nature of promotions, one infantry unit with March (and all promos required to get it) will easily dispatch the same two 1st level units. Yet for the score purposes those two units contribute more.

But no this probably has absolutely nothing to do with him spamming cities, 10 cities aren't even that much as in general the Civs that do overexpand are usually still the ones that do the best. This is probably all due to him building a bunch of units and not having any trade-routes to run meaning his negative gold reducing his science per turn down to 0, I've been in that situation plenty of times myself, but I usually manage to recover somehow.

With the removal of a free science per pop, the early negative GPT hits are even worse. So it's quite believable he got stuck with zero science per turn and no way to get more gold due to new sources of it requiring new techs.

 

[xkander]

In my current game with Spain, I have received three different monument bonus from events (+1 gold, +1 faith, +1 culture, one per city) and one malus, -2 gold in all cities, from Small Ice Age event.
But, when I check in each city screen, I may see the malus effects on gold production, but I don't see at all the bonus from monuments. Am I missing something?

Editing: it looks that gold and culture bonus are there, but I don't see the +1 monument's faith in Madrid: Faith +11 (+8 from Buildings and +3 from Religion)

Buildings in Madrid: Palace (+3), Angkor Wat (+1), Statue of Zeus (+1), Stonehenge (+3)

 

[Natura]

But no this probably has absolutely nothing to do with him spamming cities, 10 cities aren't even that much as in general the Civs that do overexpand are usually still the ones that do the best. This is probably all due to him building a bunch of units and not having any trade-routes to run meaning his negative gold reducing his science per turn down to 0, I've been in that situation plenty of times myself, but I usually manage to recover somehow.

Please don't make assumptions like that. None of the other Civs I encountered in the same game had 10 cities, or even much close to it, at the time I encountered Denmark, and they were all in a far better situation than he was. Clearly something has gone seriously wrong when an AI can fall this far behind. Once again, as I said, he had city states on his continent that he could trade with. He was separated only by coast tiles from 3 other civilizations, each with coastal cities, just like his. Either he didn't build trade units (in itself a serious issue) or he over-expanded (also a serious issue) or he spammed military units when no threat was nearby (also a serious issue).

I have played exclusively with Communitas since starting to play this mod at least a year ago and never once have I encountered a Civ that had managed to fall that far behind. No matter which way you paint this something isn't right here. I've encountered pre-Rennaisance civs when exploring the oceans, sure. But I've never met a Classical era civ. He didn't even have Writing.

 

[Funak]

Please don't make assumptions like that. None of the other Civs I encountered in the same game had 10 cities, or even much close to it, at the time I encountered Denmark, and they were all in a far better situation than he was. Clearly something has gone seriously wrong when an AI can fall this far behind. Once again, as I said, he had city states on his continent that he could trade with. He was separated only by coast tiles from 3 other civilizations, each with coastal cities, just like his. Either he didn't build trade units (in itself a serious issue) or he over-expanded (also a serious issue) or he spammed military units when no threat was nearby (also a serious issue).

I have played exclusively with Communitas since starting to play this mod at least a year ago and never once have I encountered a Civ that had managed to fall that far behind. No matter which way you paint this something isn't right here. I've encountered pre-Rennaisance civs when exploring the oceans, sure. But I've never met a Classical era civ. He didn't even have Writing.

I'm not making assumptions. I said it was probably not because of oversettling. This is an educated guess based on two observations:
1. Settling more cities does not lower your income, in fact settling more cities tend to raise your income over all.
2. I've seen plenty of civs settling more than 10 cities and being completely fine.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I'm not making assumptions. I said it was probably not because of oversettling. This is an educated guess based on two observations:
1. Settling more cities does not lower your income, in fact settling more cities tend to raise your income over all.
2. I've seen plenty of civs settling more than 10 cities and being completely fine.

Not to mention there's no way Harald got to -150 just from buildings/specialist/tile mismanagement, he has to have lots of units in his borders to make such a thing even possible. His bloated score (which is affected by your military a lot, but not really by buildings) seems to confirm the funkiest of suspicions.

 

[Gazebo]

I found a bug I haven't read about here :
I had the event with non-believers in a city with a temple. I choose to let them (have 50% chances to) destroy it. It was destroyed, but here comes the bug :
I had invested in the temple during its initial construction, and it was still invested after destruction.

That's not a bug – investment is a permanent bonus to a city for that building type. I considered removing it, but that felt too punitive.

He wasn't isolated; only coast tiles separated him from 3 other empires, plus he had numerous city states on his continent. This was also on Communitas, which I understand is the default map script for CPP.

What may be driving the behaviour (and I have no idea about this since I'm not a coder) is that despite being more or less in a completely failed position where recovery is all but impossible, he's still second on the scoreboard.

Score doesn't affect AI behavior in any way, as it is largely cosmetic and only affects the two WC resolutions that 'rubber-band' low-score civs.

Sometimes the AI just poops itself. This happens, but far more rarely in the CP than in other ways.

G