New Beta Version - December 10th (12/10)

[hokath]

Great work G.
Mercenary Army effect needed to move, Landsknechts were high and dry.

Something needs to be done about holy-sites.

Agreed. They are not very powerful considering how much faith they end up costing. Will open discussion thread

 

[Funak]

Sorry , I was trying to combine 6 Different change logs and I think a few bad eggs slipped into the logs. I'll clean them up this morning.

Just trying to help

Imperialism did get the old authority finisher to replace mercenaries army. It felt like a better slot for it anyways, as you'll be more likely to rapidly expand in the Industrial Age.

Oh, right, the puppet bonus, I had forgotten that one existed. In that case the Authority finisher feels rather lackluster.
The old authority finisher was the +1 happiness and +3 culture per city by the way.

Re: tradition - test games showed that it was utterly blowing away the other branches in the early game at +3 from buildings. It had to be reduced.

I guess that's a fair test.

 

[Gazebo]

Just trying to help

Oh, right, the puppet bonus, I had forgotten that one existed. In that case the Authority finisher feels rather lackluster.
The old authority finisher was the +1 happiness and +3 culture per city by the way.


I guess that's a fair test.

Right, not the finisher, but the final policy (martial law). In any case, the garrison buff moved down to where conscription was, and conscription took the last slot for authority. Authority is in a really good place right now, actually, as finishing the tree sets you up to have a really cheap and effective army for garrisons (for bonuses) and/or for waging 'carpet of landsknecht death' war.

Re: Holy Sites – I think having them provide a smattering of other yields (i.e. they're a little bit of everything, yield-wise) will make them more valuable.

G

 

[PurpleMentat]

Turn 25 on Epic speed Emperor with my first new beta Celt game. Find Mombasa. They have 3 Warriors. Very nice difficulty boost for stealing workers! I approve.

Early Tradition feels good. I'm not rushing through the first handful of policies at ludicrous speed. 2 yields is less exciting but emphasizes the specialists. I want to play a China and a Babylon game with it.

Piety finisher is meh. Religion won't spread internally with trade routes most times. If you want a trade route bonus on Piety finisher, I'd suggest international from Holy City only.

More feedback as the day continues. If people are interested, I can throw up a beta testing stream in a couple hours so you folks can harass me while I play.

EDIT - 24 turns later, Mombasa warriors have set out 5 tiles from their territory to hunt a Barbarian camp. What sorcery is this?!

 

[Gazebo]

Turn 25 on Epic speed Emperor with my first new beta Celt game. Find Mombasa. They have 3 Warriors. Very nice difficulty boost for stealing workers! I approve.

Early Tradition feels good. I'm not rushing through the first handful of policies at ludicrous speed. 2 yields is less exciting but emphasizes the specialists. I want to play a China and a Babylon game with it.

Piety finisher is meh. Religion won't spread internally with trade routes most times. If you want a trade route bonus on Piety finisher, I'd suggest international from Holy City only.

More feedback as the day continues. If people are interested, I can throw up a beta testing stream in a couple hours so you folks can harass me while I play.

EDIT - 24 turns later, Mombasa warriors have set out 5 tiles from their territory to hunt a Barbarian camp. What sorcery is this?!

A stream sounds fun. And yeah, CSs can protect themselves a bit more than usual. CSs were so dull and passive, something needed to be done! They also start with military units right off the bat to help with early game worker aggression (I felt this was the best method of dealing with that other discussion, honestly).

Finding time for such a hobby (more like a job at this point) like modding of this scale inbetween work and personal life is remarkable. It certainly takes good time planning. Add in casual civ gameplay to that and you've got a nearly unsustainable mixture. It's kind of sad to think that you must spend almost all your time developing and fixing things and not a whole lot of time, if any, reaping the benefits.

I hope you really enjoy what you are doing with this Project. I know a lot of people do. It's an amazing job - Gazebo, Ilteroi, and the whole of the Community.

Yep, I love it, Edaka! I spend most of my days writing, so crunchy numbers and AI shenanigans are a wonderful respite.

 

[nametaken]

Just trying the latest beta build of CP. The random religious pressure bug I mentioned earlier doesn't seem to be fixed yet. Cities are given off random religious pressure values under 6 still.

 

[jacktannery]

Well I finally got around my strange bug with not recognising the EU compatibility files. The method was not very intuitive!

a) downloaded beta, unzipped, and placed correct files in mod/dlc folder after deleting cache and moduserdata.
b) started up game. As before, Mod 6 EUI compatibility file not recognised!
c) put zipped version of both Mod 6s into mods folder. restarted game. None of them recognised.
d) unzipped them both from inside mods folder. so now we have 4 versions of mod 6 (2 zipped and 2 unzipped). restarted game, none of them recognised.
e) renamed unzipped versions of folders to silly new name. Restarted game. Mod 6 finally recognised!!!!! It only recognised the EUI version, but that's all I wanted!

Lol the cure was stranger than the bug.

 

[PurpleMentat]

Did you delete the lua folders?

Also, I believe that someone mentioned a bit back that special characters like () caused problems with mods being recognized on some systems.

 

[Funak]

Some feedback on the Inca-situation, posted about half of it in the Inca-thread but since no one responded I'll post it here as well (I need attention, a lot of it, all the time).

First of all, a city settled on a mountain gain the same yields and defense as a city settled on flatlands, that feels kinda weird as a mountain is basically a better version of a hill.

Second, a settled mountain no longer counts as a mountain for the sake of terrace-farms (really weird actually, but they get no extra food from it).

Third, Cities on mountains look really weird

Fourth, after trying it out I'm really not a fan of the new terrace-farm and how front-loaded it is compared to the other unique improvements, I understand that you can't really add anything more to it, the farm adjacency is too powerful, but even as they are, fully developed (with civil service) they still feel really boring.

 

[Gazebo]

Just trying the latest beta build of CP. The random religious pressure bug I mentioned earlier doesn't seem to be fixed yet. Cities are given off random religious pressure values under 6 still.

6 isn't the minimum in the new model, as it tapers down with distance to zero. The old model was hard-coded to static 'rings' around a city, whereas the new one is a gradient.

e) renamed unzipped versions of folders to silly new name. Restarted game. Mod 6 finally recognised!!!!! It only recognised the EUI version, but that's all I wanted!

What did you name it to? I wonder if the (6) at the front is causing issues. I can always make it a normal integer if need be.

First of all, a city settled on a mountain gain the same yields and defense as a city settled on flatlands, that feels kinda weird as a mountain is basically a better version of a hill.

Second, a settled mountain no longer counts as a mountain for the sake of terrace-farms (really weird actually, but they get no extra food from it).

Third, Cities on mountains look really weird

The first two are interesting. The problem with mountains is that they are a 'spoof' element on the map – the plot/terrain beneath them is actually the yield-bearing element, so that's why you are getting a flatland bonus. I can try to spoof them to behave as hills for that purpose (or perhaps a bit more than hills). Not sure about the city-no-longer-counting-as-mountain element (a github post for ilteroi is in order). I kinda like cities on mountains – they are weird at first, but then they spread around and down the mountain, which looks cool.

Again, the Inca are very much in a 'testing' phase right now on that front.

Fourth, after trying it out I'm really not a fan of the new terrace-farm and how front-loaded it is compared to the other unique improvements, I understand that you can't really add anything more to it, the farm adjacency is too powerful, but even as they are, fully developed (with civil service) they still feel really boring.

Not to judge, but I knew where you stood on the terrace farm already (as per the Inca thread). In any case, we'll see what others say and form a general opinion on them soon.

G

 

[Funak]

What did you name it to? I wonder if the (6) at the front is causing issues. I can always make it a normal integer if need be.

Nooooooo. I liked the weird (#), made them line up nicely at the top of the modlist.

The first two are interesting. The problem with mountains is that they are a 'spoof' element on the map – the plot/terrain beneath them is actually the yield-bearing element, so that's why you are getting a flatland bonus. I can try to spoof them to behave as hills for that purpose (or perhaps a bit more than hills).

I was thinking of that as well, but I prefer reporting issues first, suggestions later.

I kinda like cities on mountains – they are weird at first, but then they spread around and down the mountain, which looks cool.

Again, the Inca are very much in a 'testing' phase right now on that front.

Which is why I'm reporting weirdness. I thought you wanted beta-testers, not people blindly agreeing with everything or staying silent about minor things because they don't want to upset you.
Don't get me wrong, I like the ideas of cities on mountains, I'm not sure it is going to work out, but I like the idea, it is different.

Not to judge, but I knew where you stood on the terrace farm already (as per the Inca thread). In any case, we'll see what others say and form a general opinion on them soon.

I knew where I stood because I have the ability to predict how things turn out, which I did. It turned out exactly the way I thought it would. That being said sure you can wait for for others to tell you the same thing

 

[PurpleMentat]

Test stream live. Small Highlands, playing Celts, guaranteed Inca, 4 random.
http://www.twitch.tv/purplementat

 

[nametaken]

6 isn't the minimum in the new model, as it tapers down with distance to zero. The old model was hard-coded to static 'rings' around a city, whereas the new one is a gradient.

G

Oh Ok. Personally though I thought the static ring model of 6 pressure within 10 tiles was fine the way it was, but maybe I need to play a bit more with this new pressure model to appreciate it.

Would this not make passive religious spread even with beliefs like Religious Texts and Itinerant Preachers alot more harder? Seems like manual spread will be far quicker now.

Would this change to religious pressure not be better off only in the CBP and not the CP?

 

[Gazebo]

Which is why I'm reporting weirdness. I thought you wanted beta-testers, not people blindly agreeing with everything or staying silent about minor things because they don't want to upset you.

That's not what I was trying to say or do – I was simply noting (for anyone else reading through the thread) that nothing about the Incan UA is set in stone, so reporting oddities and suggestions is welcome.

On another note, I'm considering trying to spoof Machu Picchu's graphic (or a variation on it, if I can muster the code-fortitude) to appear when the Inca settle a city on a mountain. I'unno.

G

 

[Gazebo]

Oh Ok. Personally though I thought the static ring model of 6 pressure within 10 tiles was fine the way it was, but maybe I need to play a bit more with this new pressure model to appreciate it.

Would this not make passive religious spread even with beliefs like Religious Texts and Itinerant Preachers alot more harder? Seems like manual spread will be far quicker now.

Would this change to religious pressure not be better off only in the CBP and not the CP?

It's a re-write of the core pathfinding model, and is far less expensive (CPU-wise) and natural than the older model. If reversion is desired for the CP we can do so, however the current model feels (to me, anyways) a bit more like what we were 'sold' with G&K (natural religion spread) than the older model.

G

 

[nametaken]

It's a re-write of the core pathfinding model, and is far less expensive (CPU-wise) and natural than the older model. If reversion is desired for the CP we can do so, however the current model feels (to me, anyways) a bit more like what we were 'sold' with G&K (natural religion spread) than the older model.

G

No problem. I'll have to have a full game to really know how I feel about this change. Will probably just need some time to get used to it. If its better for the CPU, then its probably a good thing. Thanks Gazebo and ilteroi for your hard work on all this.

 

[Gidoza]

Okay, I have to ask, since I don't know what I'm doing...(I usually use the Multiplayer Modpack).

How do I install the Beta manually?

 

[zer0lis]

Okay, I have to ask, since I don't know what I'm doing...(I usually use the Multiplayer Modpack).

How do I install the Beta manually?

Download the files from the Gazebo's first post link, unzip, place the files in MODS directory, delete LUA from Community Patch, Community Balance Patch, place EUI in Assets/DLC/ in civ5 installation folder.


Its been months since I last played , Im so excited to play the recent versions

Props to G and Ilteroi as always.

 

[Edaka]

Perhaps, in the event it's possible, Incan mountain cities could get an additional +1 culture base yield or something like that? Or maybe an even stronger-than-hills' defense bonus? Mountain settling is definitely cool in its own way, but I'm not sure if there is any sense to do so.

 

[Gazebo]

Perhaps, in the event it's possible, Incan mountain cities could get an additional +1 culture base yield or something like that? Or maybe an even stronger-than-hills' defense bonus? Mountain settling is definitely cool in its own way, but I'm not sure if there is any sense to do so.

That makes sense, yep.
G