New challenge: earliest possible UHVs

[Lone Wolf]

In addition Victoria is less applicable leader for the human player than Elisabeth, since even if you win in 1700s it's still captures the age of Elisabeth, rather than Victoria (1800s, which you never play).

If you go for the UHV, that is. I don't.

 

[TDK]

I got a virtual victory with Arabia(600AD) in 1150AD.

 

[BurnEmDown]

How about a pic showing religion's % in the world? It's important for Arabia and Khmer's UHV.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

So I rolled another 600 AD start and this time it was even better: 3 barb horse archers had just razed Bona Mansio for me and were about to become Gallic! So I founded Constance without diversion and sent my whole army, including the recent recruits, to Spain where I razed Valencia. (very unfortunate that the ruins didn't give me any bonus since I worked them for a long time)
Best city for Notre Dame is Bordeaux because you can easily make it the most productive city early on with mines and pre-chop those trees (built in 6 moves). Best city for Statue of Liberty is Madrid (built it in 10 turns during GA) which also had Wat Preah Pisnulok (6 turns). Paris used a saved engineer for Univ of Sankore and Constance built the Forbidden Palace (would have been nicer if I got Spiral Minaret but Arabia got it first).
This time I had it right: saved a great engineer for Eiffel Tower, spawned multiple great scientists for physics/electricity (saved me maybe 5 turns), and a great artist (saved 1 turn with radio). Paris had about 7600 culture by now (never switched away from bureaucracy) and the closest is Qufu (about 2000).
My last city was founded in 1650. Maybe could have been even faster if I didn't found the 2nd city around Hudson Bay.
Germany, having been frustrated by not capturing Rome before me, declared war on the Dutch, captured Amsterdam and gave it to me due to my culture (but not Venedig which was equally surrounded). Hemmed in by both Russia and Turkey who were at war with the Germans for about 200 years, Germany begged to sign a defensive pact with me. I also signed a DP with England, and Portugal/Mali were my vassals. I.e. nobody can seriously touch me, even though for safety I put some stacks in Amsterdam and Constance (mostly made out of former conquistadors). Inca I left alone and Aztecs I just collapsed, then gave Mexico to Inca.

Spoiler :

 

[Wessel V1]

Egypt virtually done in turn 117 (355 BC). Switched to caste system very early and discovered Literature as soon as possible. Didn't get any lucky event, and didn't use the whip exploit (as I have never attempted to learn how to use this), so probably this could be some turns earlier.

 

[Tigranes]

Um, you do realize that I replayed that England game and got 1615? I'm sure blizzrd can do something like 1575 but until then...

Sorry, for some reason I thought replays will not count

But anyway, as I said that 1640 AD game was my very first English try for the 600 AD start ( I usually love 3000 BC better, more surprises).

This time I decided never found a colony unless I have Astronomy. It really helped my science rate. No tricks, no wars, no crusades, no special strategy, just research towards astronomy and scientific method. Liberalized Physics. The only unusual thing was to raze the old independent Inverness (why did Rhye found that city on the beaver?) and settle the new one 1 tile West.

Spoiler :

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Got a little lucky that 3 barb jaguars who were about to attack Chichen Itza flipped to me (right at the edge of the city). Unfortunate thing was barbs prevented me from founding New Orleans until almost 100 years later (nothing is stronger than a dog soldier except for catapults and you can't build them in time).
Sailing, Monarchy, Feudalism, then decided to go for civil service (for maces which can kill a defending knight) and drama (to expand those island cities' culture quicker), then straight for astronomy/physics.
Also, about midway in the 1500's, the natives decided to make peace and together we captured New York. Unfortunate thing was that I accumulated 1200 espionage points and a spy was sitting in New York waiting for philosophy but it was too expensive, and I had to get my 5 English slaves. I actually liberated New York back to them but it got captured right away by the natives. So in retrospect if I stole something from them I might have a better endgame.
Interesting that after I got physics, everybody wanted to sign a DP with me.

Spoiler :

 

[AnotherPacifist]

[Thank you Tigranes for your hints regarding the safety of islands and the liberalization of Radio--I hadn't really used the fact that liberalism is so late nowadays that this is possible.]

Now I know why there's a forest north of London.

The lack of land for the English has always bothered me. So I settled 1N to get all the land resources (the dye doesn't really matter until calendar which is quite late for me until I whip monuments). Then I sent longbows/settlers to "neutral" ground (Copenhagen and Reval, the latter needs to be founded until the Russian flip) and just played nice to everybody, including giving Russia paper which bought peace for the rest of the game.

There's the expected Viking phony war which ended with my trireme sinking a galley of theirs. But then it really became interesting. Judaism spread to Amsterdam (one might say from nowhere) and this pitted them against the French (it would have been me otherwise had I not begged for gold/peace 5 turns before). Then Willem captured Paris but left Amsterdam with 1 longbow! So I took a gamble, upgraded a chariot to a knight who duly sacrificed himself at the walls of Amsterdam, and a longbow captured it. Next turn, the Dutch collapse. 10 turns later, the French collapse and their independents attack Germany. Guess what, Otto then wants to vassalize! (and the Germans went on to capture Paris, Bordeaux, Venice and Rome by the time I finish)

Best thing to slow down the diffusion of tech is to make Germany and Russia completely landbound and adopt mercantilism.

Also had Aztecs, Inca and Mali as vassals--probably can be even 4 turns quicker if not for that.

By the end I even had an indy Robin Hood in Sherwood Forest.

Spoiler :

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Machinery was free tech (expensive and perfect for trading since nobody can seriously know how to use it well early on), got free monarchy from a European hut! And of course took the detour to math and construction for the Great Wall. If I had the Colosseum I would have rampaged through Italy but the barbs did the work for me. Had Ethiopia and India as vassals. Took Jet's hint and founded Megara (Hanoi) and Mykenai (in the Azores) and upgraded triremes there to caravels. (If I had thought ahead I would have whipped a settler early on in Chennai and sent him to New Zealand instead).

Didn't really try to get optimized (as you can see I had just entered GA from the last 2 UHV criteria and actually built the damn Mausoleum to try to profit from it earlier), but here are the questions that I had while playing this:

1. Is it better to get masonry first before priesthood? If you get the marble hooked up and can boost Temple of Artemis building, you take the risk of India building the Oracle. In this game India wanted more to expand rather than wondermonger, so maybe masonry could have been better. (Helped me because they left Chennai undefended, and I had sent a galley with a phalanx and scout all the way there; the scout picked up a lot of cash and even calendar from huts in Australia)

2. How can one not spawn multiple priests (and get other types of great people) because all the early wonders spawn priests? You have to actually build a library to get scientists and a forge to get engineers. Caste system is useless IMHO because you definitely need to chop and whip quickly.

3. Where is the info that tells me which techs I can bulb with great people? I really wanted to bulb philosophy, but my GS gave me paper and wanted to bulb education next.

4. Is it better to get a golden age by going for drama/philosophy first or to research the optics route (forgoing the GA)?

5. I decided not to go for Babylon this round to avoid the hassles of maintaining an army, and in any case the surrounding culture is hard to combat. Is the blizzrd/Alexander the Great technique really worth it or should you concentrate on Europe and Egypt?

6. I missed out on the copper in Albania because I forgot to get a settler there early on, so Colossus cost quite a bit to build until I hooked up the copper on the Red Sea. Is it worth it brave an early war with Rome (who was super nice to me before they collapsed because I had founded Christianity and it spread to him) or miss out on the copper and just whip the Colossus out early on)?

Spoiler :

 

[blizzrd]

Didn't really try to get optimized (as you can see I had just entered GA from the last 2 UHV criteria and actually built the damn Mausoleum to try to profit from it earlier), but here are the questions that I had while playing this:

I'll let you know my answers to those questions when I'm done with my Greek game.
It's currently a work in progress, but should be well ahead of 590AD. Hopefully this weekend I can finish the game.

 

[blizzrd]

2. How can one not spawn multiple priests (and get other types of great people) because all the early wonders spawn priests?

The Pyramids doesn't. I recommend not building the Temple of Artemis too early.

Caste system is useless IMHO because you definitely need to chop and whip quickly.

I disagree. I don't use the whip at all with Greece.

3. Where is the info that tells me which techs I can bulb with great people? I really wanted to bulb philosophy, but my GS gave me paper and wanted to bulb education next.

AFAIK, there is no complete list for this. The way I can work it out though is to use the F6 screen. This will only tell you which tech the next Great Person of each type will help towards though.

If you want to plan ahead more than that, I once used Worldbuilder to give myself techs one after another and tracked what changed on the F6 screen. I'm not aware of an alternative approach other than this method.

The other questions will have to wait until I finish my current Greek game though.

 

[Jet]

Where is the info that tells me which techs I can bulb with great people?

Great People Tech Prefences (sic)
What determines lightbulbing order?

Good games. My Carthage date is

 

[blizzrd]

Great People Tech Prefences (sic)
What determines lightbulbing order?

Those lists look fairly old. I'm not sure that they take into account Rhye's alterations to the tech tree either.

 

[Walliard]

I don't think changes to the tech tree would matter. Scientists bulb Printing Press before Alphabet, after all. The only differences would be if Rhye changed them himself.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Good games. My Carthage date is

So I decided that the original guide to Carthage is right: you have to get Sur or found a city right next to the dyes to get them early. I sent my preloaded settler to Rome, knowing full well that if I occupy the trees with my workers, Rome will spawn near Melpum without any of their ships. I sent the 2nd settler plus cavalry across north Africa to meet Egypt, sent rest of troops to capture Athens, made peace, then waited till Pella built Colossus then waited for Greece to collapse and capture it. Egypt was no match (since they haven't improved the copper yet). Rome of course declared war, and their praetorians died at the walls of Rome defended by mercenaries and cavalry. Made peace and they collapsed, Mediolanum flips to me.

The big challenge was, as always, Hammurabi. He had unfortunately built Ninua and got the copper, and didn't collapse due to barbs. I had to divert some spearmen in Pella to guard until the Great Wall was done. Simply put, I found out that castes do not work for Carthage because you lack the 150% great people for Greece (maybe I should have tried it for my Greek game)--I tried to spawn a great artist to bomb my foothold near the dye and there's not enough time. So I went the hard way and captured Babylon, but Ninua had built the Pyramids and running quite a strong cultural defense, and I was starting to despair because it was getting close to the deadline (I even had workers prechop the trees and build roads on the dye, even though it was still Babylonian). Thankfully they collapsed right on time, and I got my 12 turn GA (having built the Mausoleum).

My economy started to tank for the same mysterious reasons and I gave Jerusalem to the Persians and let them fight it out. Sent a settler/trireme to the ends of the known world (Australia and that desert island off West Africa), and upgraded them to caravels. (in fact thanks Jet for the hint to attach a great general to a trireme for the 1+ movement)

In the end I even built all the Theology, Aesthetics and Literature wonders, Artemis, Moai, Great Lighthouse (my first build for Rome), even though I wasn't the first to any of the techs. I was first to music though and just bombed Mediolanum with the GA.

Spoiler :

 

[Tigranes]

In fact Great Admiral can add +3 movement points to you -- Mobility, Navigation 1, Navigation 2...

 

[AnotherPacifist]

In fact Great Admiral can add +3 movement points to you -- Mobility, Navigation 1, Navigation 2...

And upgrade to caravel for free. Too bad I forgot to move my archer and axeman out of Rome before I attached the admiral to the trireme.

In fact this can probably be applied to UHVs like England, Portugal and Khmer who need rapid transports for settlers/missionaries. How to get that great general though without killing your economy...

 

[blizzrd]

How to get that great general though without killing your economy...

... use your starting phalanx units to conquer Babylon/Egypt and fight against the various independent cities.

Killing barbs is a fair strategy also. Surely you don't need the Great Wall...

 

[AnotherPacifist]

... use your starting phalanx units to conquer Babylon/Egypt and fight against the various independent cities.

Killing barbs is a fair strategy also. Surely you don't need the Great Wall...

I'm taking about Khmer who sees action only in India, and barb kills don't count towards your next great general. Native kills have given me a lot of great generals though for England and Portugal, but if going for UHV is the goal, I would rather not found my cities too early.

 

[blizzrd]

I'm taking about Khmer who sees action only in India, and barb kills don't count towards your next great general.

Fair enough. You'll have to just farm the independents in India then and whack each penultimate defender as they are built in one of the Indian indy cities.

I never looked into the military screen closely enough to realise this was the case. Learn something every day!