Discussion in 'Fall Further' started by sylvain5477, Aug 8, 2009.
Quickly added in v0.2.2.
EDIT : jump to v0.2.3, I missed a Key for PASSION
I like science-boosting for Wilds while eating up the sea, hihi. ITS FUNNEH!
I appear to have corn flowing through my biomass as a result of planting a heart on top of a corn resource. The mental images made me laugh, a lot. And thumbs up on the new shame color. Less cartoonish, more impending doom.
Edit: I just saw a Passion...I think I'm in love.
Update: I'm have very serious thoughts....
About thinking of a nerf. Then again, computer players arent exactly that funky (Emperor), but the expansion rate of rooting right now is....craaaaazy. One could later argue about getting too much science from Implorbption but I think its an awesome mechanic. "Prepare the world, and you shall have progress!". I see two options:
- Increasing cost on Organized Tear over tech-advancing
- Increasing the death risk in its current formula
Also, I'm not getting reports of dying Organized Tears ='(
Edit*: Need to keep in mind the reason you changed the O Tear mechanic in the first place: micromanagement levels. But right now I have 10 O Tears and 3 cities producing new at a heavy rate, and 2 died the past 4 turns. So if Im to wing it on the math and keep producing O Tears in those cities, I'll land on solid 14 O Tears active, which is too many for a 4-city Tearpire IMO. (1 producing Love).
Blob*: To be a bit positive..... I LOVE THE SCIENCE PROGRESS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's Dagdelicious. 26 digesting tears *wink wink*
Notice: Implorbption went all "TEXT_KEY_SPELL_IMPLORBPTION". My Wilds look funny at me for even mouse-over the ability >.>
Update: Hilarious payback...even though its weak its still funny. From 2 sections of my continent I've expanded the landmass with Implorbption outside my sightrange, so now I'm getting goblins, frostlings and barbarians bouncing about haha.
I haven't change the formula but since I went from kill each time and reborn if lucky to kill only if unlucky there is a big difference for stack of O Tears.
I have another way as well, I'll do it and you can tell whether it is better.
Update of shame : mistake when migrating the python code one section to the other. O Tear are currently not killed whatsoever. It is corrected in v0.2.4 but not yet released (have to complete new Passion mechanic)
I had. I'll check again whether I included it in the patch. No message whatsoever ?
EDIT : how about the Shame changes ? Better balanced ?
Yeah, as a mobile production support unit I feel that it makes more sense.
Update of thought: But that doesn't rule out upgrading? =D
Not, of course not
I am sometimes wondering whether you are my only player (well no, only 5 players who posted here)
I regularly follow this thread, but I am waiting hopefully for Valkrionn to pick this up when it reaches a state of being mostly finished.
Main reason I haven't is as you said: "reaches a state of being mostly finished."
Still need to find time to actually play test it.... Keep making myself more projects.
So you see, you should try it now, so that it WILL be mostly finished one day
I wish I could, my computer is sooooo slow, I use all the tricks I have just to get my computer to run the program. Any crashes are quite literally disastrous and that makes play testing potentially unstable things prohibitively slow and un-fun.
Conveniently, the budget says, I should be due for a computer update sometime late November. (Hopefully I can do some door crashing - metaphorically speaking)
OK, you're forgiven until november
I've been playing games on Epic-Emperor and my last 2 games playing Dagda I got slightly worried about balancing as my score started to zoom off a little, and I know there's a lot of balancing to do on the score system but it still had me curious, so I went for a testrun on my old fav Malakim.
Turns out the AI is just quite sluggish in FFH/FF, as I came ahead on a quite similar score level, not to mention power level.
I'd say its looking positive, looking at the bigger picture since a normal civ grows more the more it grows...if you understand what I mean. This is not quite the case for the Tears, at least not to a comparable level, as normal civs older cities grow substantially in power as you expand the nation with more resources you can gain much better factory-cities.
Anyhow, I could write a small essay on the matter, but Im getting a good feeling, although I feel that the Tears gets ahead in the very early beginning thanks to their resource-absorb tier 2 units, and of course, Dagda's Tear.
One more thing when comparing...everyone are at war with the Tears which places them in a lot ****tier position unless you're the Tears closest and primary target really.
Edit*: Testing comparison went to about turn 200, which yes, is pretty early, but I thought it'd be good to add. ^^
Actually, I had the feeling that The Tears were getting quickly ahead because of the culture, rather than the units or science.
But on the other end as you mentioned:
+ they are at war with everyone
+ they cannot capture cities, and so their conquest is limited as they need to expand by their own.
The real questions that interest me are :
+ do you have fun with them ?
+ do you have some challenge with them (or it is too easy) ?
Well, my point with comparing was that it felt like the AI doesnt quite do well for comparing. I have fun with em but it'd be nice to invent some more additions to play around with. The "normal" civs do have a lot more options in a wider stretch, but that's a natural result of development time. Tears are a concept which puts them into a whole new playstyle so you have been working em up from scratch...
And to clarify how I wanted to compare. I think that the Tears are very mighty once they got a few units up, since thats when their roots become an effective fortress. Then they are somewhat frozen until they reach their first T2 tech units. I believe they are quite a power-house until other civs bring in siege/recon/magic units into the picture to be able to effectively combat them.
But to compare production for an all-out war with non-cry situation after aproximately 200 turns.
While Wilds could be Fears/Envies/Distress that are quite nasty havocbringers, I'd only get aproximately one new every 5 turns with 5 cities.
As Malakim I could produce copper-enhanced warriors in two cities over 4 turns and swordsmen over 7 turns in my capitol at that. And then my research was also substantially more stable as Malakim which would yield me archers/catapults relatively soon.
But at this point, the tears could do the usual stuff of city-linking up to the border, then bombard with lust tears from the border, and while the strategy takes some time to execute, it sure would obliterate anything getting close.
Example is slightly void of detail variables but unless the total-war effect helps my Malakim civ out with reinforcements from other civs (which still is very likely to feed the Tears a whole lot of xp rather than doing any actual damage until somewhat better units come around) I'd get a bit ed
I'm a bit tired right now, but looking at the relative realism of a biomass, I can understand the healing effect in home enviroment, however I'm seriously considering asking for the defense bonus on roots to be lowered to 1.
As you made them, most tears have some extra defensive capacity already which makes them superior for chewing up all the wood in enemy territory and then just occupy it and still be es. While Cry doesnt work there, one can still plant roots for super-healing siege so.... yeah. Your call ^^
Good morning (its 14:40 in the afternoon here, bzzt)
Well, I thought the 2 levels of special promos linked to the tech before the T2 unit would do to fill the gap and keep you feel making progress. It seems it doesn't ?
Update of update : wait to see the new Passion mecanic v0.2.4 should change things (with python correction also)
In the attached save file, I'm just about to build a "city". After it gets built the tear root graphic disappears but the mouseover shows that there is still a Tear Root on the "city" square. I assume the graphical glitch occurs because I'm building on top of a preexisting tear root. Otherwise, everything is functioning as normal.
Edit: Upon further inspection the tear functions (extra defense, etc...) do not seem to be working...
Ok I think I found this one.
I'll try some cases to check.
ok, v0.2.4 released !
Each existing unit has been bettered in its own speciality (especially passion, fear and envy)
Having great fun with the tears recently with my newest game. Two super strength-ed passions wrecking havoc, one also with a shame's army (Turned into Sadness/Jealousy's), and another with two Sadness. I also have a level 10 Jealousy with Orthus's axe.
I find that I'm not having too much trouble war-wise, as I'm at turn 120 on quick, fielding huge armies, obliterating anyone I actually focus on. My strategy is when I get a new unit I send them to explore around, which has left most of the map around me treeless, gaining them some experience. Then, the stronger tears meet together and harass the nearest civilization. When they get strong enough, they merge with another group, and start to invade cities. I haven't really needed siege, and my massive armies of tears wandering around the map coupled with Orcish swarms option on seems to be feeding my units a substantial amount of experience while severely limiting the expansion of other civilizations.
My favorite units have to be the Passions, which start out weak, but can turn into death machines once they get rolling. Shames are also good, as long as you can get them to survive long enough to make an army, which usually makes it best to deploy them early game were they wont be overwhelmed. The added promotions are also very useful, so much so that I usually don't get my units the regular promotions until level five, when I run out of the + promotions to take
My one problem is the tear size. It's undocumented, and I would like to know what affects the size, as the defense/attack debuff really hurts.
Good to hear you have fun with the new Shame system. Note that the Passion has been greatly changed to become less of a monster so quickly as now and depends more on the units sacrificed to it (need to keep them alive!), and a more gradual strength as it can only absorb 1 Tear per level. (but it should still become a power house after some time.
Sorry, but when you say "invade", you mean "destroy" right ? (you cannot actually "take" the other city, I mean ?)
Too powerful ?
OK here the short answer:
Every Tear starts with a size, depending on your technological "level". As of now:
+ Start of game => SIZE : Tearling (-1/-2)
+ Tech Drama known => SIZE : Tear (+0/+0)
+ Tech Theology known => SIZE : Great Tear (+1/+2)
+ Tech Strength of Will known => SIZE : Greater Tear (+3/+4)
Once born, a Tear will keep its size, even if the Tech is learned!
My current target:
Tears will have a chance to increase size when getting older also, even without the tech researched.
Also nstead of making it depend on an actual Tech, I'm thinking of making it depends on the Tech area.
A teaser for the new size mecanic:
EDIT : added labels for size and unit name
Separate names with a comma.