New civ : Dagda's Tears

[WarKirby]

yes I have a city. And I had several other organised and digesting tearlings at the time. I still got gameover when the big tear died.

 

[sylvain5477]

and suddenly, the str 7 things that were defending my capital moved out without warning, and a doviello scout took my capital. Game over again. This is kind of annoying

Which str 7 things ?
You are loosing me in this. (is there str 7 units ?)

I would advise you to keep the dagda's Tear in the capital until you get a Wild, then keep the wild in and start exploring with the dagda's Tear so you have some security until you get familiar with tha civ (sorry that the pedia is not helping you yet..)

You may have upon the first city creation some digesting tears in the patital but as you can see they are duration limited, so do not count on them for defense (and they are only str 0/3 (+0/+1 if on rooted tear), so a bit weak.

Wilds are better at defense +2/+4 (+0/+1 on rooted Tear) and +50% in city.

 

[sylvain5477]

yes I have a city. And I had several other organised and digesting tearlings at the time. I still got gameover when the big tear died.

If so this is a bug. I'll test it.
I had several daga's Tear die when implementing the eversoul but it was v0.1. I'll check in lastest patch.

 

[WarKirby]

I have no idea what to do. Why are love tears 400 That goal is practically unreachable, especially with a city that seems to be permanantly stuck at size 1. My organised tears keep dying, and I have zero research. All I can do is keep building organised tears and watching them die. In the meantime I'm building up a vast army of near useless wild tears.

I have no idea where this is going.

 

[WarKirby]

Which str 7 things ?
You are loosing me in this. (is there str 7 units ?)

I would advise you to keep the dagda's Tear in the capital until you get a Wild, then keep the wild in and start exploring with the dagda's Tear so you have some security until you get familiar with tha civ (sorry that the pedia is not helping you yet..)

You may have upon the first city creation some digesting tears in the patital but as you can see they are duration limited, so do not count on them for defense (and they are only str 0/3 (+0/+1 if on rooted tear), so a bit weak.

Wilds are better at defense +2/+4 (+0/+1 on rooted Tear) and +50% in city.

Digesting tears are 7 defense strength. That's what I meant

 

[sylvain5477]

I have no idea what to do. Why are love tears 400 That goal is practically unreachable, especially with a city that seems to be permanantly stuck at size 1. My organised tears keep dying, and I have zero research. All I can do is keep building organised tears and watching them die. In the meantime I'm building up a vast army of near useless wild tears.

I have no idea where this is going.

OK:

+ organized Tears are duration limited. Yes, you should keep building them.
+ the production goes up very fast :
- when the city get older they get production bonuses
- the improvement has 3 steps :
1] waking => low production (short), pillagable, upgrade if worked
2] absorbing => high production (everage duration), upgrade if worked
3] gestating => low production, produce wilds, upgrade even if not worked
4] nothing (bareland remaining)
+ love take some turns to produce, but it is not so difficult. Consider them a settler. Currently its price increase dramatically depending of the number in plays so keep only one at a time to ease (I will change this back to national 2 units limitation)
+ to produce science, please sent yoru useless wilds to forest/flood plains and other features to create digesting tears and produce science. the wilds will then not be so useless and you science will increase.

I think I'll up the pedia writting to the top priority now

 

[WarKirby]

I wonder why we can only absorb features. IT seems a bit limiting since there are so few. I wish I could absorb sheep, and deer and such. Resources look much more absorbable

 

[sylvain5477]

Digesting tears are 7 defense strength. That's what I meant

I see. You won some combats with them and them upgraded tham right ?
They become stronger when winning combat and gain duration extension (but always duration limited).

 

[sylvain5477]

I wonder why we can only absorb features. IT seems a bit limiting since there are so few. I wish I could absorb sheep, and deer and such. Resources look much more absorbable

these you actually absorb also, but with worked rooted tears
And you get special units.

I think you should definitely read the second post of this thread to help you with the working of the civ. This especially is described there.

 

[Rickie_Rain]

I suggest giving a tier 1/2 tech a new unit (Lust?) to be based off Wild to provide an offensive option earlier on. This must come with sacrifice so it should be a 3/1 with no defense capacity. Thoughts?

Have you tried the Jealousy ?

I meant tier 1 or tier 2 tech, like crafting or mining.

Update of silly: There is still unit support cost. Another thought on the Lust tear idea. If you want to make sure they <have> to be offensive, give em an inherit promotion that causes them to be favoured defenders. This would make them the ideal "home cleaning crew", and require a bit more tech, zerging and whatnot to use as actual assault tears.

Now you lost me

I get military support cost, silly stuff.

Jealousy are still considerably far off, unless you intend to boost teching more than just slightly.
My point was to make a <really> squishy unit, but which does have some offensive capacity early on. As you said yourself, attacking with Wilds is bad, but when there are barbs, or even early encountered civs ravaging through my lands, I'd want more firepower besides just camping my own roots.
Without expansion the time to tech to more powerful stuff (tier 3 techs: tier 2 units) can be frustrating really. Yo catch me drift?

 

[sylvain5477]

Ok I get it.

I'll have an idea
Actually I have an idea

Wait a bit please.

 

[sylvain5477]

I get military support cost, silly stuff.

actually loosing money has no impact whatsoever

 

[WarKirby]

these you actually absorb also, but with worked rooted tears
And you get special units.

I know, but I mean like absorbing them with the main tear. There seems to be a lack of offensive power, and it's not even capable of attacking. would be nice to be able to change that by absorbing various resources.

 

[Rickie_Rain]

Offensive firepower is a development factor for this civ. With enough tech, it comes, but you can expand decently if you use concentrated troop movement. As soon as an Organized Tear finishes more root, you effectively have more home-area which is fortress ground really.
I like this concept overall but the time it takes to establish <real> firepower is what got me into posting the idea of the Lust tear.

Dagda's Tear is only able to attack on roots however, last I recall.

 

[sylvain5477]

I know, but I mean like absorbing them with the main tear. There seems to be a lack of offensive power, and it's not even capable of attacking. would be nice to be able to change that by absorbing various resources.

In my experience, the dagda Tear become a real monster vey quickly, and with attack capability it can actually easily wipe out entire civ early on.

It is meant to be exploratory first, then defensive, and only in late game (not done yet!) offensive.

 

[WarKirby]

I'm about 200 turns in in a current game. I don't have calendar, or bronze working, or hunting, or construction. In fact I have almost nothing. Despite having 4 cities, and eating every forest in sight, my research is utterly pitiful. I'm way behind every other civ in tech

Digesting tears give 1.5 each, and seem to last 5-7 turns. Once a forest is eaten, it's pretty much permanantly gone. the rate of regrowth is so slow it's barely worth mentioning. Most of my research is coming from killing doviello units. I seem to have started on a medium sized island with only me and them. And I'm only killing them when they're stupid enough to attack me, because I have pretty much no offensive power. My strongest unit is a 3/11 passion tear. Almost nothing else has more than 2 attack strength. How am I supposed to fight anything like this ?

 

[sylvain5477]

Research Education => 2 beakers / digesting tear
Reserach hunting + tracking => jealousy tears
Reserach Fishing => every tears get high withdrawal chance, so you can take over ennemy cities.

I'll add some offensive capability as it seems to be lacking for everyone.

Also research the tech which improve every tears: Drama, Theology, Strength of Will

 

[WarKirby]

Also research the tech which improve every tears: Drama, Theology, Strength of Will

You say research theology and strength of will, so casually. like they're something one does on a whim

 

[sylvain5477]

Drama is not so hard
or go for horse riding which gives you range attack capability

EDIT : hunting gives +1/+0 to all tears also

or find iron for the corresponding Pride

 

[Suuljin]

very nice modmodmod! yay for monster civs

a few things i noticed / some questions:

- the 'pedia section 'promotions' is cut off after freelancer. all after promotions after that don't appear.

- while i like being able to choose where to plant my cities, expansion with love tears feels a lot slower than in 0.1.8 with rituals. 0.1.9 was relased before i could test this, but i guess water walking tears were valid targets for the deep rooting ritual, so you could use them to reach islands or continents and found a new city without having to spam cities/tears to flatten an entire ocean. would be nice to see such an option again. maybe giving water walking tears a cargo slot for love tears?

- digesting tears used to be 0/3. playing 0.1.9 they became 0/5 (base def, not taking boni from techs into account). they weren't effected by symbiosis either.
is that because i absorbed new forest and jungle with dagdas' early on? both increase def by 1 for the hero (which was listed in the pedia as normal unit last i checked), but should they also boost all other units?

- could be related to what war kirby encountered, or might just be a problem with upgrading the versions: loading the save from 0.19 and playing it on 0.1.10 (said to not break saves) causes following problems:
wild tears do not consume forests anymore. i have fast nature digestion, but ending a turn increases the counter from 1 to 2 turns and back to 1 ad infinitum. my tears are basicly usesless because they are held while they digest. they (tears in general) also don't spawn digesting tears, neither from circling through their futile digestion attempt, nor from combat. i do get 0.5 exp per circle though, even though the forst remains