New civ unlocks via ingame decisions

[ehecatzin]

On the other hand, making terrain-based progressions or anything else balanced across multiple types of maps has always been a challenge in Civ, or am I the only one who remembers re-rolling my start a dozen times trying to get a desert start position for Mali or Nubia in Civ VI?

I think that due to starting bias of both leaders and the starting civs that problem won't come so often (I hope so). So yeah, some civs will be easier to unlock due to that starting bias, and that's fine, I imagine every Egypt game will have Songhai as an easy unlock just due to the nav. river bias.

That makes sense for after the expansions... right now 6-7 civs available (seems reasonable) is 60-70% of the total. but once there are 13 civs available that edges up to 8-9... so its probably worth them seeing how it balances and then trimming the easier to get ones.

I can see them keeping them a bit light atm due to having a less robust set of civs but imho they are too easy right now and it could as well invalidate much replayability if optimal builds are just unlocked and players just go for them just by playing the game normaly (the Humankind problem), it would also bite at the incentive to try diferent leader and civs combos to unlock "unusual paths"

At least the way I see it, civ and leaders already give you a set of paths to work with, and unlocks should be, well, hard to unlock. At least from gameplay it seems like civ unlocks are more in line with Eurekas from Civ VI and it doesn't feel like a proportional reward. Maybe the unlocks should feel more in line with completing a legacy path difficult wise?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

@queenpea's sarcastic comment has a point though. But I am going to write down my thought process as I think this through:

Yes, we Filipinos are of Austronesian descent. But because of our constant contact with the rest of Southeast Asia, trading contacts with China, and our experience under Spanish colonialism.... it just doesn't make sense. We're not Pacific Islanders, we're Asians (American census checkbox mentality strikes again). If Gitarja is a leader in Civ7 (for argument's sake) does that mean she gets to unlock Hawaii for free? I could hope that if you play as Rizal you get Spain unlocked for free; it's weird and feels inappropriate, but at the same time most Filipinos don't even mind... unless you also include a Philippines civ in the game in the modern era... which the base game doesn't... see this is why I'm wary about the game not including the respective civs of leaders. It makes for fraught combinations.

(I just wanted to mention that this is not how I normally write in this forum, so don't mind the disjointed nature)

Do we know if he unlocks other SEA civs? Because when he was revealed I wasn't surprised that he might unlock other civs that would branch out across the Pacific all the way to potentially Mexico, because of the Spanish and revolution theme they have. I think one of his preferred starting civs is the Maya.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I think that due to starting bias of both leaders and the starting civs that problem won't come so often (I hope so). So yeah, some civs will be easier to unlock due to that starting bias, and that's fine, I imagine every Egypt game will have Songhai as an easy unlock just due to the nav. river bias.

Thanx for pointing that out! It seems to indicate that some in-game Progressions are intended to be far easier than others, possibly making the most outrageous 'progressions' much harder to achieve on normal maps - whatever those turn out to be . . .

 

[CivLuvah]

Don’t kink-shame our Greco-Roman fetish

To be fair, most, if not all of the West has a Greco-Roman fetish. There’s nothing wrong with that personally, it’s just it’s not only the US that has it.

 

[chaosprophet]

So….Wine. Adds Happiness in the Capital and adds Culture when in a Celebration.

They knew what they were doing here

EDIT: although it is weird that apparently Wine loses its Happiness/Culture aspect in Modern, instead becoming +food/production. There is no Modern resource that provides the perfect yields for France, you can only have either/or.

Doesn't wine do that? Or does it have a different yield?

I see, when I asked somewhere else, I asked only for it's effects on Modern, didn't know what it did on exploration. In that case, I agree it makes more sense. While it would be more interesting if it had that effect on modern too, at least it means that if you're a civ that is partaking on the empire wide resource that is wine in exploration with more happines and culture, you may want to continue the streak by going with French Empire next that will also give you lots of happiness and culture.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

One of the players I watch unlocked 10 of 11 civs in Exploration. The only one he didn't get was the Songhai, which was ironic since he started as the Mississippians; getting 3 cities with 3 navigable rivers should have been no trick with their starting bias.

Unfortunately, he played as Pachacuti, and his mountain bias overwhelmed the Mississippians' bias for flat rivers.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

@Evolena lots of gameplay unlocks revealed here in JumboPixel's preview, if you didn't yet see!

View attachment 715354

Improve Silk.
It is rather unlocked via RNG, not a decision
(unless they improved resource generation on maps and now its more even compared to Civ VI)

 

[evonannoredars]

Modern era civs having antiquity civ unlocks seems odd to me, both because of the more disconnectedness and surely once you're picking which modern era civ to be you'll have a lot of options from antiquity civ + exploration civ + leader + gameplay unlocks (unless you've been geographically/culturally consistent with the first three)

 

[Willie5000]

I think is a general Western, or at least New World post-colonial Western nations, thing. There's a lot of Graeco-Roman symbols, imagery and revival architecture in the American post-independent republics (USA, Colombia, Argentina, Mexico, etc.) Maybe not much in Canada, which still is technically a monarchy.

Maybe it has to do with the history of those countries being tied to Enlightenment Republican ideas strongly opposing European monarchies in bloody wars of independence.

In-game, for instance, you can get from Greece or Rome to Mexico via Spain, which is perhaps one of the most historical accurate paths in the base-game.

Why should Greece unlock America? Greece already unlocks Exploration Age civs that in turn unlock America in Modern.

 

[Sagax]

Why should Greece unlock America? Greece already unlocks Exploration Age civs that in turn unlock America in Modern.

For the same reasons Rome directly unlocks America, France, and Prussia, while also unlocking Norman and Spain. This is not speculation, but confirmed info from yesterday’s media dumps.

 

[untitledjuan]

For the same reasons Rome directly unlocks America, France, and Prussia, while also having unlocking Norman and Spain. This is not speculation, but confirmed info from yesterday’s media dumps.

Historically speaking, there's a more direct link between Rome and Mexico than between Rome and America tbh

 

[Leucarum]

The worst offenders for me are the ones which have zero relationship to how a civ plays. Not to mention how many of them are RNG based on the map. I've disliked some elements of Civ7's design before, but I can always envision what the reasoning was, and in that light even the stuff I wasn't into made logical sense. This is just inexplicably bad...

 

[Wabnosa]

America was/is influenced by England (Rome and Greece,+), France ("), Germany ("), the Dutch ("), Haudneshonee and almost every tribe it came in contact with. It was also influenced throughout its history by Mexico. Modern days its, its neighbors and major, cultural and strategic world powers.

The Romans themselves were heavily influenced by Greece. I like to see it as Democratic French influence rooted in Greece. But it also came from other Western powers. In the modern era the Greek influence comes from Stavi.

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

If map generation and civ placement priorities Starting Bias that could drive a 'strict' civ unlock system to make the AI have the same civ path in most games.

 

[Bast]

Am I the only one who don't follow the logic behind the "Play as Rome" unlock for America?

I'm more surprised that Rome doesn't unlock Russia? Hello, Moscow as Third Rome. Should be able to go Rome > Byzantine Empire > Russia

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

I'm more surprised that Rome doesn't unlock Russia? Hello, Moscow as Third Rome. Should be able to go Rome > Byzantine Empire > Russia

I suppose its because the part of Rome that influenced Russia the most was the Greek-Speaking Orthodox incarnation of the Empire

 

[Krikkit1]

I'm more surprised that Rome doesn't unlock Russia? Hello, Moscow as Third Rome. Should be able to go Rome > Byzantine Empire > Russia

Once the Byzantines are there, I’m sure they will.

 

[untitledjuan]

America was/is influenced by England (Rome and Greece,+), France ("), Germany ("), the Dutch ("), Haudneshonee and almost every tribe it came in contact with. It was also influenced throughout its history by Mexico. Modern days its, its neighbors and major, cultural and strategic world powers.

The Romans themselves were heavily influenced by Greece. I like to see it as Democratic French influence rooted in Greece. But it also came from other Western powers. In the modern era the Greek influence comes from Stavi.

America was also heavily influenced by Spain. I think it is the second largest influence after England/Britain. Everything west of the Mississippi, but especially California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, Texas, etc. From city layout and architecture, as well as city, county and state names, to some laws in states such as New Mexico and more than 50 million Spanish speakers in the USA alone. The first colonial settlements in the USA were in Florida and New Mexico and they were Spanish.

It wouldn't be weird to have Spain unlock both Mexico and the USA.

 

[Archanist]

I'd be surprised if Rizal doesn't unlock Spain considering some scholars argue that he was trying to reform Spanish rule of the Philippines rather than go for full independence (and the others disagree, which is why I wish he had a persona reflecting this)

That tidbit is also related to why he was pushed to be the National Hero over others like Andres Bonifacio, the United States while colonizing the Philippines wanted a figure that wasn't too radical, pushing the idea that Rizal was a reformist so there wouldn't be too much resistance (but the Philippine-American war happened anyway). I could dig deeper to find sources, but this is what I remember from my classes years ago. (This could also mean he could have an in game link to America too)