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As everyone said, we have plenty of documents about sumerians, may it be narrative or diplomatic sources. In this Sumerian civ, the problem doesn't come the UI, the Ziggurat, although the bonus should be related to religion or culture rather than science; or the UU, since you can see war carts pushed by onagers (a species of donkeys) in the valuable source, the standard of Ur. Besides, the wae cart is not the only UU available to sumerian, since they coud also have phalaxes, which we know were used thanks to the stele of vultures.
We know nothing on Gilgamesh, the real one, except that he ruled Uruk at some point. That's it. By the way, do you know the Epic of Gilgamesh is not the first known written narrative text ? We plenty of them, and this time, that are actually in sumerian and not akkadian : The instructions of Shuruppak, Inanna's descent to hell, the Atra-Hasis, Emmertar and the Lord of Aratta, Lugalbanda in the cave, ...
If I'd pick any ruler, it would be either Ur-Nammu, who built the first known code of laws known to mankind (no, it isn't the code of Hammurabi), or Shulgi, who extended the sumerian's empire further than any other, the former with an emphasis on CS and diplomacy, and the latter on expansion and conquest.
But, if I had to pick pre-akkadian rule leaders, there are plenty to pick from : Lugal-Ane-Mundu, the first to have conquered the lands between the Mediterranean to the Zagros ; Eannatum, who also built a powerful empire around Lagash, whose Victory over Umma is depicted in the Stele of vultures ; Kug-Bau, the only reigning queen we knkow something about who could have boni centered around growth and population ; Urukagina, who despite having lost his city of Lagash against the powerful Lugalzagesi, established the first known social and justice reforms (despite we lost the original text, making the Ur-Nammu's law code the first known to date), which could make him a leader with boni towards amenities ; there's also Gudea, which we know a lot about him, with boni towards faith, culture and growth.
Zaarin advised you the work of Samuel Noah Krammer, which is an excellent start. Another very good read about it would be the works of Jean Bottéro or Georges Roux.

All that to say that yeak, it's not about having low information on sumerian (which are infinitely more numerous than scythians, whose sources come primarly over archeological evidence or foreign sources from greeks among others), but rather Firaxis that the (terrible) artistic choice of revolving the entire civ around a literary work compiled during babylonian rule. And that's the main problem people have with the sumerian civ in the game : we know how sumerian was spoken, and they made Gilgamesh speak akkadian ; we have tons of leaders to choose from, and they chose a king which we know nothing on his real achievements and base him on an epic text ; we know a lot from sumerian culture, and they focused the abilities on the said text ; they dressed and depicted Gilgamesh on assyrian canons, which are very different from sumerian's (a bit like the fact that they put an XVth century armor on Frederick II despite being an XIIth century emperor). They absolutely screwed the civ and its history in the name of babylonian poem ...
 
The problem with the donkey cart is the implantation as chariot. The Sumerians had also horses and they were just better. And they even knew it. Take a look at the Standard of Ur.
The Roman used a lot of donkey hybrids. But you really would not give Rome a mule caravan as UU, or?

I think it is a little bit weird to say donkeys on the battlefield are ok but on the other side Gilgamesh is just a myth. This game has a comical and iconic style what distracts from seriousness. The donkey cart is just a joke. Sometimes Civ6 is a bit too comical in my opinion but I do not mean Gilgamesh.

Unfortunately I guess we did not get a second Sumerian leader because there are much more interesting ancient Civilizations (Akkad, Assyria, Babylon, Hittites) of this region before the Sumerians should be deepened.
So the phalaxes will not be LUU for another Sumerian leader. But I like the phalaxes also more and the war cart is a better UU for the Hittites.


Furthermore, Carthage is already confirmed as a new African Civ?
 
Ur-Nammu, I've come to bargain!

Ur-Nammu, I've come to bargain!

Ur-Nammu, I've come to bargain!

Ur-Nammu should be added as an alt leader for Sumeria!
It took me a second to get that, but I lolled. I finally got to watch Dr. Strange a few weeks ago.
 
Furthermore, Carthage is already confirmed as a new African Civ?
No, why should it? Some people act like it was that way, but we have no reason to think this one would be likelier to come now than other returning civs. With Hannibal and the Carthage CS, I tend to see it as even less likely than Mali or Ethiopia.
 
They don't normally make announcements on Fridays.
I believe that they will begin the marketing for the new DLC June 6th or 8th. The Victory videos (which are kind of placeholders for actual PR) that they have been releasing every Tuesday will run out the week before that. And that leaves 2 weeks before the time when I believe the next DLC will be released (June 22nd), which is perfect for a civ First Look on June 6 or 8th and a leader First Look on June 15th, during E3.
 
Ur-Nammu, I've come to bargain!

Ur-Nammu, I've come to bargain!

Ur-Nammu, I've come to bargain!

Ur-Nammu should be added as an alt leader for Sumeria!

When the best way to resolve an argument about whether Gilgamesh is a suitable historical leader or subject to too much fictional embellishment is to add an extradimensional demon lord to the game to replace him :lol:
 
The problem with the donkey cart is the implantation as chariot. The Sumerians had also horses and they were just better. And they even knew it. Take a look at the Standard of Ur.
So you'll have to provide me some evidence here ... I've studied sumerian history and culture for a while, and never did I hear sumerians used horses. Hittites did, Kassites did, Egytpians did, but sumerians didn't. At best, we know they had horses during Ur's IIIrd dynasty, but those were used as entertainement rather than war.
I think it is a little bit weird to say donkeys on the battlefield are ok but on the other side Gilgamesh is just a myth. This game has a comical and iconic style what distracts from seriousness
Again, why would it be weird to see something historically attested ? Just because donkeys have a bad reputation nowadays doesn't mean they are ridiculous or whatever. The mythical version og Gilgamesh dressed as an assyrian and speaking akkadian seems far more bizarre than something that historically existed and was used ?
Unfortunately I guess we did not get a second Sumerian leader because there are much more interesting ancient Civilizations (Akkad, Assyria, Babylon, Hittites) of this region before the Sumerians should be deepened
Well, that's pure subjectiveness. For instance, in my case, I find sumerians far more interesting than the four you mentionned. Does it mean I'm right and you're wrong ? Of course not. But stating that the sumerians should are "less interesting" is bit bold as a statement. Why would you think they're less interesting : they "invented" writting in the region, their language is rather unique, not indo-european nor semitic, we have a great knowledge on their culture and religion, the latter influencing extensively babylonian and assyrian religions (which actually just absorbed and adapted sumerian beliefs to them), we have known leaders for them, they're one of the most developped cultures of their time, ... Seriously, why would they be less interesting ? They seem to me as fine as such an ancient culture can be.
 
So you'll have to provide me some evidence here ... I've studied sumerian history and culture for a while, and never did I hear sumerians used horses. Hittites did, Kassites did, Egytpians did, but sumerians didn't. At best, we know they had horses during Ur's IIIrd dynasty, but those were used as entertainement rather than war.

These are donkeys:
Spoiler :

civ6_war-cart1.jpg



Take a look at the Standard of Ur.

These horses were no donkeys. They kill enemies. So why should the developer give us donkeys, if not as a joke. Or did you studied biology for a while also?

For instance, in my case, I find sumerians far more interesting than the four you mentionned. Does it mean I'm right and you're wrong ? Of course not. But stating that the sumerians should are "less interesting" is bit bold as a statement ... Seriously, why would they be less interesting ? They seem to me as fine as such an ancient culture can be.

This must be a misunderstanding. I like the Sumerians very much. I just wanted to say that the second leader of Sumeria could wait for some other ancient Civilizations (Akkad, Assyria, Babylon, Hittites). The possibility for a second leader of Sumeria is low. No reason to get upset;)


No, why should it? Some people act like it was that way, but we have no reason to think this one would be likelier to come now than other returning civs. With Hannibal and the Carthage CS, I tend to see it as even less likely than Mali or Ethiopia.

or Madagascar maybe?
 
These are donkeys:
Spoiler :

civ6_war-cart1.jpg





These horses were no donkeys. They kill enemies. So why should the developer give us donkeys, if not as a joke. Or did you studied biology for a while also?

The war-carts are based on this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer

The Sumerian military used carts harnessed to onagers. These early chariots functioned less effectively in combat than did later designs, and some have suggested that these chariots served primarily as transports, though the crew carried battle-axes and lances. The Sumerian chariot comprised a four or two-wheeled device manned by a crew of two and harnessed to four onagers. The cart was composed of a woven basket and the wheels had a solid three-piece design.

Onagers are wild asses. Donkeys. They used donkeys to pull their carts in war. It says it right there.
 
WTH? They used Onagers not horses. That's not some mystical unknown thing is it?

What is not clear was whether these donkey carts ever were used as a notable unit in war
Donkeys are not strictly the same thing as Onagers
 
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WTH? They used Onagers not horses. That's not some mystical unknown thing is it?

What is not clear was whether these donkey carts ever were used as a notable unit in war
Donkeys are not strictly the same thing as Onagers

Per Wikipedia, the Donkey is domesticated from the African Wild Ass which shares a common ancestor with the Onager, which is larger than the AWA.

The extent to which War-Carts were actually used, I don't know.

In my opinion, it's better than Civ IV Sumer's Vulture, which is basically "here's what a Sumerian warrior looks like according to a stele with vultures on it... and a bonus based on nothing."
 
Per Wikipedia, the Donkey is domesticated from the African Wild Ass which shares a common ancestor with the Onager, which is larger than the AWA.

The extent to which War-Carts were actually used, I don't know.

In my opinion, it's better than Civ IV Sumer's Vulture, which is basically "here's what a Sumerian warrior looks like according to a stele with vultures on it... and a bonus based on nothing."

Civ3's Sumeria had the Enkidu Warrior as the Unique Unit...
 
The war-carts are based on this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer

Onagers are wild asses. Donkeys. They used donkeys to pull their carts in war. It says it right there.

ok, wait 5 minutes. I will change the text:joke:

Here is another wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_horse

"It is also one of the oldest breeds, with archaeological evidence of horses in the Middle East that resemble modern Arabians dating back 4,500 years."


Everyone can see for themselves how it is. The carts in the bottom line should be the UU of Sumeria, or?

Spoiler :

standard_war.jpg



You mean that this one should be the draft animal.


And the animal of your image do not look like the donkeys in the game.

Spoiler :

civ6_war-cart1.jpg



I am not a biologist, but at least with the ears and the leg length the designer seems to has lost his way.


I guess it answers if these carts were used or not.

This was not the question:deal:. I have said that the current Sumerian UU as donkey cart is a joke which I do not like;)
 
Look, you can just say that you don't like the war-cart for aesthetic reasons, but there is certainly evidence to back it up.
 
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