New DLL limit for Number of allowed Civs in C2C

[JosEPh_II]

I was going to run your save on my Comp for comparison but it CTDs before I can even do a recalc.

I just updated to SVN 4757 from 4715. It CTD'd on both versions!

I have:
i7-2600 @3.4Ghz
8 GB DDR3 1666 ram
Win 7 64 Pro
GeForce GTX 550 Ti with 2GB DDR5 ram

JosEPh :/

 

[ls612]

I was going to run your save on my Comp for comparison but it CTDs before I can even do a recalc.

I just updated to SVN 4757 from 4715. It CTD'd on both versions!

I have:
i7-2600 @3.4Ghz
8 GB DDR3 1666 ram
Win 7 64 Pro
GeForce GTX 550 Ti with 2GB DDR5 ram

JosEPh :/

Are you using Viewports? If not, that would likely cause issues, otherwise post the dump here.

 

[sp00n]

Try to revert to 4756, which worked fine for me. 4757 has some problems according to the bug thread.

 

[ls612]

Try to revert to 4756, which worked fine for me. 4757 has some problems according to the bug thread.

Koshling said that that crash was a long-standing issue that just was manifesting itself yesterday. Joe should post the dump, if he isn't using Viewports it may just be a MAF.

 

[JosEPh_II]

No I didn't have viewports On in my games. But wouldn't loading Your game set them up? Doesn't the save setup the parameters like that, like out MP games?

Since I have not been using viewports do you still want the Dump?

JosEPh

 

[Koshling]

No I didn't have viewports On in my games. But wouldn't loading Your game set them up? Doesn't the save setup the parameters like that, like out MP games?

Since I have not been using viewports do you still want the Dump?

JosEPh

Saves do not setup viewports because if they did there would be no way to ever change them, since changes only take effect on restart (and can only do so since a change in viewport size cannot occur once the game engine has been told what size to expect).

 

[ls612]

No I didn't have viewports On in my games. But wouldn't loading Your game set them up? Doesn't the save setup the parameters like that, like out MP games?

Since I have not been using viewports do you still want the Dump?

JosEPh

Try using Viewports (it is in the General BUG tab), and see if it still crashes, if not it was probably a MAF. That map is quite large and there is lots of stuff on it.

 

[hotrodlincoln]

Let's raise the limit to 196 and have a modern era game with every country in the world in it.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Whatever..........

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'd really love it if I could get a computer to handle that kind of game though... that's pretty much the holy grail there I think.

 

[sp00n]

I'd really love it if I could get a computer to handle that kind of game though... that's pretty much the holy grail there I think.

I would love to have a game engine that could handle kind of game.

 

[ls612]

I would love to have a game engine that could handle kind of game.

Well to get that we need someone who knows graphics programming.

 

[Daedwartin]

Well to get that we need someone who knows graphics programming.

And we have the issue I don't think modders are allowed to really touch the game engine much.

 

[ls612]

And we have the issue I don't think modders are allowed to really touch the game engine much.

Well, I was more thinking of AXXXXE with that post, I'm well aware that we can't mess with civ graphics.

 

[masaykh]

C2C run better on xp then on 7\8

i done some testing on memory usage with some last svn rev (3 days ago downloaded)

on win 7 game got 2 first chance exceptions
[10.02.2013 6:48:12] C:\Windows\system32\avrt.dll loaded at 0x74700000
[10.02.2013 6:48:12] Thread created. New thread system id - System ID: 3896
[10.02.2013 6:48:12] First chance exception - 0x406d1388 caused by thread with System ID: 1740
[10.02.2013 6:48:12] Thread created. New thread system id - System ID: 3140
[10.02.2013 6:48:12] First chance exception - 0x406d1388 caused by thread with System ID: 1740

and one then you start new game generation
[10.02.2013 6:52:28] First chance exception - 0xc0000005 caused by thread with System ID: 1740
that resulted with fatal exception 0xc0000005 from cvplot+1 ast stated by debugdiag
on XP i dont have crashes at all and no these exceotions too.

for memory :
on win 7 - started game grow to 2750-2900 mb (virtual bytes) \ 1300-1600(private bytes)
on XP - 2000-2200 (virtual) \ 900-1100 (private)

so if you playing from xp you can play MORE complicated game then on win 7
as civ4 engine 32-bit application what dont know anything about AWE - more then 4000 mb ram dont do any good for it

p.s. sorry if this info not needed...

 

[Taxman66]

Owning both an XP machine and a Win7 64bit machine, I can say unequivocally the exact opposite applies to me.

 

[masaykh]

can you check memory usage (using Proccess Explorer) and post it here? private and virtual sizes (by default proccess explorer dont show allocated memory so you should open memory gtab and look there)

 

[GT Ranma]

Is it really the NUMBER of civs that is causing the problems, or is it the number of units / production queue's that is causing the problems?

What is it about the civs that causes the turn to be intrinsically longer, the more you have of them? On huge, with 5 total civs, it still takes forever to do a turn because we each have a bajillion units and cities, how does having the same number of units and cities on the map, but divided between 50 civs make the turns go longer?

 

[God-Emperor]

There are things that are processed per civilization.

Diplomacy is an example. With 5 civs you have 4 AI's each processing diplomacy with up to 4 other civs, for up to 16 relationships considered. With 10 civs you have 9 AIs each processing diplomacy with up to 9 other civs, for up to 81 relationships considered. With the 50 civs you mentioned, that is 49 AIs each processing diplomacy with up to 49 other civs, for up to 2401 relationships considered.

There are also things like deciding what tech to research and what civics to use. And then each civ may have a different value for the various units and buildings it can build, as well as a different set of buildings and units that it can built. That means that each civ has to do its own calculations for those values and have a separate cache for them, which also uses more memory.

So dividing the same number of cities and units amongst a larger number of AIs will use more processing power and more memory. Not necessarily a lot more, but more.

 

[Koshling]

There are things that are processed per civilization.

Diplomacy is an example. With 5 civs you have 4 AI's each processing diplomacy with up to 4 other civs, for up to 16 relationships considered. With 10 civs you have 9 AIs each processing diplomacy with up to 9 other civs, for up to 81 relationships considered. With the 50 civs you mentioned, that is 49 AIs each processing diplomacy with up to 49 other civs, for up to 2401 relationships considered.

There are also things like deciding what tech to research and what civics to use. And then each civ may have a different value for the various units and buildings it can build, as well as a different set of buildings and units that it can built. That means that each civ has to do its own calculations for those values and have a separate cache for them, which also uses more memory.

So dividing the same number of cities and units amongst a larger number of AIs will use more processing power and more memory. Not necessarily a lot more, but more.

The building and unit considerations are actually per city (largely, though the code does factor out the per-player element and cache it). The diplomacy point you make is a particularly good one though for sure