New Game- random leader:Roosevelt
- Thread starter joe6778
- Start date
UnforcedError
Settler
This is what we're talking about, Joe:
Spoiler :
Lennier
Emperor
Lymond asked Joe back on page 4 what version of BtS he was running; I don't see that Joe answered the question. (I might have missed Joe's answer.) Is it possible that Joe's running 3.17 (or earlier) and that the mechanics of when the AI will trade strategic resources changes and those running 3.19 will be able to trade Bismark for Ivory and those running Joe's version can't?
UnforcedError
Settler
I think it's more likely that the saves would be incompatible.
UnforcedError
Settler
In that case could you please upgrade to 3.19?
Nice idea, Lennier
Nice idea, Lennier
Lennier
Emperor
My troubleshooting skills are better than my Civ IV skills.
CivNoobie
King
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2012
- Messages
- 614
yes, please download the patch here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=323831
I'm following this game and I want to see how it goes
I'm following this game and I want to see how it goes
CivNoobie
King
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2012
- Messages
- 614
OK. I patched to 319 and made the trade for ivory. What's the plan?
BTW- I played a Noble game as the Arabians and won a conquest victory at 1600AD!
that's good, 1600 is VERY early for a victory.
post a save i wanna see it
EDIT: why not let him chop the pyramid...he can either switch to HR or REP, this'll save him from teching all those useless religious stuff...
UnforcedError
Settler
CivNoobie: we're at war, we definitely won't chop anything Bismarck could build for us too.
Nicely done, Joe
So, the plan for this game:
You still didn't tell us what victory condition you'd want to pursue in this game, but for now we will go and kill Kublai in any case
City focuses:
Our front cities and the capital should basically build units (no more axes please, focus on siege and swords) while the back cities build libraries and run scientists. uMgungundlovu should grow 1 size on the pig and then resume working all cottages and the gold. Stagnate there. Workers should chop on and don't forget to cycle through your cities every turn to see if you can whip something. Do not whip anything with 0 hammers in and try to avoid 1-pop whips (except for the granaries in the new cities).
If a trade for Meditation comes up do not trade away Currency or Construction but you can grab it ( + Archery? ) for Alpha or Maths.
We can see that Kublai presumably settled the iron site:
That means we will have to send a smaller stack there (one catapult and say 3-4 units). Let's focus on the established cities for now though, this is the main plan:
I'd say this is the basic idea for the next small set. It might be better though if we played turn by turn though, in which case the more detailed tactical plan for turn 100 would be:
Move chariot from kwaDukuza towards Nobamba. If Kublai's axe moves out in the open this guy can take him. If not, let's leave him there for now, let's join up with the stack.
Move our scouting warrior (which teleported back to our stack) inside Nobamba.
Move chariot in uMgungundlovu towards the tile our stack is assembling on.
Move the whole stack (1 cat, axes and impi) on Kublai's copper, use impi to smash copper. The axe 1S of Nobamba should move 1NW of the copper and await the cats on the move there. He will be their escort.
Our front cities (Bulawayo, Nobamba, Ulundi) should continue to build units. Try to make catapults 2-pop whips and put the whip overflow into a unit that would only be a 1-pop whip. Workers should chop, no need to build tile improvements the cities will never use. Nongoma could use another farm though. uMgungundlovu to grow 1 size and resume the settler (return pig to the capital).
EDIT: The main secret of a successful war is quickness. War costs maintenance and generates war weariness in your cities. Plus the opposition will just build more and more units while in war mode. It's best to get it done fast. This is why horse archer or cuirassier rushes are so popular. Siege is the most reliable way to get cities though. Even for siege wars it's important to move as fast as possible, meaning:
-- you don't want to stop the whole stack and heal units until absolutely necessary. Instead, you want to have a unit with the medic promotion heal up the injured units while the healthy units attack.
-- you don't want to stop and bombard cities unless the city is either untakeable otherwise or unless you have enough siege to bombard down the defenses and do collateral damage too within one turn (this is something we wanted to have before starting the war but we're forced to rush here a bit ). If you don't have enough siege but could get the city without sacrificing too many other units it's best to go for the suicidal move.
--When planning to take multiple cities always think about your next moves and try to save turns on unit movement. In our case we will attack Beshbalik from the NW to enable our stack to move towards Karakorum faster. Beshbalik's culture will hopefully retreat (although culture is a bit unpredictable) so that our axe with the catapults can catch up for Karakorum.
-- Never leave injured or siege units undefended in dangerous areas.
Nicely done, Joe
So, the plan for this game:
You still didn't tell us what victory condition you'd want to pursue in this game, but for now we will go and kill Kublai in any case
City focuses:
Our front cities and the capital should basically build units (no more axes please, focus on siege and swords) while the back cities build libraries and run scientists. uMgungundlovu should grow 1 size on the pig and then resume working all cottages and the gold. Stagnate there. Workers should chop on and don't forget to cycle through your cities every turn to see if you can whip something. Do not whip anything with 0 hammers in and try to avoid 1-pop whips (except for the granaries in the new cities).
If a trade for Meditation comes up do not trade away Currency or Construction but you can grab it ( + Archery? ) for Alpha or Maths.
We can see that Kublai presumably settled the iron site:
Spoiler :
That means we will have to send a smaller stack there (one catapult and say 3-4 units). Let's focus on the established cities for now though, this is the main plan:
Spoiler :
I'd say this is the basic idea for the next small set. It might be better though if we played turn by turn though, in which case the more detailed tactical plan for turn 100 would be:
Move chariot from kwaDukuza towards Nobamba. If Kublai's axe moves out in the open this guy can take him. If not, let's leave him there for now, let's join up with the stack.
Move our scouting warrior (which teleported back to our stack) inside Nobamba.
Move chariot in uMgungundlovu towards the tile our stack is assembling on.
Move the whole stack (1 cat, axes and impi) on Kublai's copper, use impi to smash copper. The axe 1S of Nobamba should move 1NW of the copper and await the cats on the move there. He will be their escort.
Our front cities (Bulawayo, Nobamba, Ulundi) should continue to build units. Try to make catapults 2-pop whips and put the whip overflow into a unit that would only be a 1-pop whip. Workers should chop, no need to build tile improvements the cities will never use. Nongoma could use another farm though. uMgungundlovu to grow 1 size and resume the settler (return pig to the capital).
EDIT: The main secret of a successful war is quickness. War costs maintenance and generates war weariness in your cities. Plus the opposition will just build more and more units while in war mode. It's best to get it done fast. This is why horse archer or cuirassier rushes are so popular. Siege is the most reliable way to get cities though. Even for siege wars it's important to move as fast as possible, meaning:
-- you don't want to stop the whole stack and heal units until absolutely necessary. Instead, you want to have a unit with the medic promotion heal up the injured units while the healthy units attack.
-- you don't want to stop and bombard cities unless the city is either untakeable otherwise or unless you have enough siege to bombard down the defenses and do collateral damage too within one turn (this is something we wanted to have before starting the war but we're forced to rush here a bit
). If you don't have enough siege but could get the city without sacrificing too many other units it's best to go for the suicidal move.--When planning to take multiple cities always think about your next moves and try to save turns on unit movement. In our case we will attack Beshbalik from the NW to enable our stack to move towards Karakorum faster. Beshbalik's culture will hopefully retreat (although culture is a bit unpredictable) so that our axe with the catapults can catch up for Karakorum.
-- Never leave injured or siege units undefended in dangerous areas.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 27,110
Hey Joe - Hope things are going well. I haven't even been on the boards in about a week due to RL. Looks like you are in good hands regardless. I'll catch up soon and try to help out as well.
Hope you are learning a lot.
Hope you are learning a lot.
UnforcedError
Settler
Welcome back, Lymond I think you managed to give Joe a solid foundation At least he now seems to be winning a lot more consistently on Noble.
I think you managed to give Joe a solid foundation At least he now seems to be winning a lot more consistently on Noble.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 27,110
^^^yep, glancing through here it seems Joe is making some progress
That's is awesome, Joe. When you do something like that, post some screens or a save. Also, let us know what you did or learned from that game. Do you know what you did that allowed you to improve so much on your victory? What strategy did you use?
Yeah, I recall me asking about the version of BTS, but did not recall getting an answer at the time - although I certainly could have overlooked it. Anyway, the reason I asked at the time is that I notice an odd tile in your game that should not exist in 3.19. Glad you finally updated to 3.19.
As for victory conditions, I did go into that quite a bit some time early in this thread, talking about micro/macro discussions, putting off macro for a bit. You received some good answers though. The bottom line though is that it is really up to you. You can win any type of victory under any condition usually. I tend to prefer certain victories though based on map types. For instance, Pangaea maps usually means all out war for me. When you hear these dates like BCs conquest/dom victories, they are most often on Pangaea maps for obvious reasons - and usually not on the higher difficulties. BC military victories on..say...a Archipelago map is basically impossible.
Interestingly, you can view Terra maps as quasi-Pangaea maps. If you go for an early war ploy on Terras, you and the AIs will never even smell the New World.
Culture is the one VC I generally pursue from Turn 0, knowing that going into that game that is what I want to do. It really is generally a very different game from the other VCs, at least if you play for an optimal fast Culture game.
Diplo wins are actually quite easy ONCE you know how to manage the diplo aspects of the game. It's the one VC that is very easy to back into as well simply as result of going the Domination route (we call it Diplomation). So Diplo games you don't necessary have to decide on until much later. ("Later" being relative)
Space is simple. If you want fast Space, you want a lot of land. War early on to grab as much land, recover, then blow up your research. It's not inconceivable to attain several thousands of beakers per turn, literally teching those later techs in 1 to 2 turns a pop.
War games are the easiest to decide and manage. If you have the resources to fit your strategy and nearby AIs, you can always trounce them.
BTW- I played a Noble game as the Arabians and won a conquest victory at 1600AD!
That's is awesome, Joe. When you do something like that, post some screens or a save. Also, let us know what you did or learned from that game. Do you know what you did that allowed you to improve so much on your victory? What strategy did you use?
Yeah, I recall me asking about the version of BTS, but did not recall getting an answer at the time - although I certainly could have overlooked it. Anyway, the reason I asked at the time is that I notice an odd tile in your game that should not exist in 3.19. Glad you finally updated to 3.19.
As for victory conditions, I did go into that quite a bit some time early in this thread, talking about micro/macro discussions, putting off macro for a bit. You received some good answers though. The bottom line though is that it is really up to you. You can win any type of victory under any condition usually. I tend to prefer certain victories though based on map types. For instance, Pangaea maps usually means all out war for me. When you hear these dates like BCs conquest/dom victories, they are most often on Pangaea maps for obvious reasons - and usually not on the higher difficulties. BC military victories on..say...a Archipelago map is basically impossible.
Interestingly, you can view Terra maps as quasi-Pangaea maps. If you go for an early war ploy on Terras, you and the AIs will never even smell the New World.
Culture is the one VC I generally pursue from Turn 0, knowing that going into that game that is what I want to do. It really is generally a very different game from the other VCs, at least if you play for an optimal fast Culture game.
Diplo wins are actually quite easy ONCE you know how to manage the diplo aspects of the game. It's the one VC that is very easy to back into as well simply as result of going the Domination route (we call it Diplomation). So Diplo games you don't necessary have to decide on until much later. ("Later" being relative)
Space is simple. If you want fast Space, you want a lot of land. War early on to grab as much land, recover, then blow up your research. It's not inconceivable to attain several thousands of beakers per turn, literally teching those later techs in 1 to 2 turns a pop.
War games are the easiest to decide and manage. If you have the resources to fit your strategy and nearby AIs, you can always trounce them.
Robert FIN
Emperor
Joe has made too much progress.. He is better than me 
! Seriously, I've never won Conquest, Domination or Culture and I haven't won Monarch.. Feeling myself a dumm dumm.
! Seriously, I've never won Conquest, Domination or Culture and I haven't won Monarch.. Feeling myself a dumm dumm.This is the last save before I went on to vassal the last two civs.
It seemed that Saladin was an easy leader. Musa did a peaceful vassal early on, and it was a matter of building up my cities (Mecca was awesome) building some units and attacking. The other civs capitulated pretty quickly. This was the easiest game of CivIV I ever played. I even had unused GP.
I definitely learned a lot here that I wouldn't have otherwise known. Thanks.
It seemed that Saladin was an easy leader. Musa did a peaceful vassal early on, and it was a matter of building up my cities (Mecca was awesome) building some units and attacking. The other civs capitulated pretty quickly. This was the easiest game of CivIV I ever played. I even had unused GP.
I definitely learned a lot here that I wouldn't have otherwise known. Thanks.
I've never won a culture victory and I won diplo a couple of times because all my vassals voted for me. Space race usually takes the longest. I've won a few domination and conquest victories, but mostly space. And I like to play on terra maps since it's closer to our world type.
CivNoobie: we're at war, we definitely won't chop anything Bismarck could build for us too.
Nicely done, Joe
So, the plan for this game:
You still didn't tell us what victory condition you'd want to pursue in this game, but for now we will go and kill Kublai in any case
City focuses:
Our front cities and the capital should basically build units (no more axes please, focus on siege and swords) while the back cities build libraries and run scientists. uMgungundlovu should grow 1 size on the pig and then resume working all cottages and the gold. Stagnate there. Workers should chop on and don't forget to cycle through your cities every turn to see if you can whip something. Do not whip anything with 0 hammers in and try to avoid 1-pop whips (except for the granaries in the new cities).
If a trade for Meditation comes up do not trade away Currency or Construction but you can grab it ( + Archery? ) for Alpha or Maths.
We can see that Kublai presumably settled the iron site:
Spoiler :
That means we will have to send a smaller stack there (one catapult and say 3-4 units). Let's focus on the established cities for now though, this is the main plan:
Spoiler :
I'd say this is the basic idea for the next small set. It might be better though if we played turn by turn though, in which case the more detailed tactical plan for turn 100 would be:
Move chariot from kwaDukuza towards Nobamba. If Kublai's axe moves out in the open this guy can take him. If not, let's leave him there for now, let's join up with the stack.
Move our scouting warrior (which teleported back to our stack) inside Nobamba.
Move chariot in uMgungundlovu towards the tile our stack is assembling on.
Move the whole stack (1 cat, axes and impi) on Kublai's copper, use impi to smash copper. The axe 1S of Nobamba should move 1NW of the copper and await the cats on the move there. He will be their escort.
Our front cities (Bulawayo, Nobamba, Ulundi) should continue to build units. Try to make catapults 2-pop whips and put the whip overflow into a unit that would only be a 1-pop whip. Workers should chop, no need to build tile improvements the cities will never use. Nongoma could use another farm though. uMgungundlovu to grow 1 size and resume the settler (return pig to the capital).
EDIT: The main secret of a successful war is quickness. War costs maintenance and generates war weariness in your cities. Plus the opposition will just build more and more units while in war mode. It's best to get it done fast. This is why horse archer or cuirassier rushes are so popular. Siege is the most reliable way to get cities though. Even for siege wars it's important to move as fast as possible, meaning:
-- you don't want to stop the whole stack and heal units until absolutely necessary. Instead, you want to have a unit with the medic promotion heal up the injured units while the healthy units attack.
-- you don't want to stop and bombard cities unless the city is either untakeable otherwise or unless you have enough siege to bombard down the defenses and do collateral damage too within one turn (this is something we wanted to have before starting the war but we're forced to rush here a bit
--When planning to take multiple cities always think about your next moves and try to save turns on unit movement. In our case we will attack Beshbalik from the NW to enable our stack to move towards Karakorum faster. Beshbalik's culture will hopefully retreat (although culture is a bit unpredictable) so that our axe with the catapults can catch up for Karakorum.
-- Never leave injured or siege units undefended in dangerous areas.
Advanced one turn. A random event triggered a golden age! Whoppee!
UnforcedError
Settler
Great game you posted there, Joe I would have cottaged up Mecca in the BCs though. That city is the most perfect Bureaucracy capital you could ever get and it's much weaker with farms. I can see that you built the Pyramids and used Rep but having a strong cottage capital helps you along even then.
EDIT: so what about the current game?
I would have cottaged up Mecca in the BCs though. That city is the most perfect Bureaucracy capital you could ever get and it's much weaker with farms. I can see that you built the Pyramids and used Rep but having a strong cottage capital helps you along even then.EDIT: so what about the current game?
There are still some things I'm struggling to comprehend. For instance, I thought this would be my GP farm so I built farms. Plus I'm trying to build more farms in general since it's starting to sink in that food is king. Damascus was my money maker.
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