Jethro-tron
Chieftain
Uh-ah! I got 2 scientific leaders in a row (just like in a SOTD). I gues its 'coz my folks had 5 sources of opium...
New Mod: "Bigger, Better Worlds"
- Thread starter DB_in_Omaha
- Start date
Great mod, I dl'd it last night, and managed to play most of the way through the ancient age.
One quick question though... is it intentional that barb encampments are unreachable in the desert, forrest and so on? In the game I'm playing, I've got a barb encampment not far from my capital in the middle of a desert. There doesn't appear to be any way that I can reach it.
Thoughts?
One quick question though... is it intentional that barb encampments are unreachable in the desert, forrest and so on? In the game I'm playing, I've got a barb encampment not far from my capital in the middle of a desert. There doesn't appear to be any way that I can reach it.
Thoughts?
Jethro-tron
Chieftain
You have only 2 ways. One way is to build Machiavelli's Il Principe Gr. Wonder - it comes with espionage and it produces assasins which can go through any terrain. The second way is simply to wait untill chivalry in the beginning of medieval era - knights can also go through any terrain. Otherwise the only thing that you can do is defence... It is fairly enough 'coz ancient civilizations suffered very hard from barbs and original Civ doesnt reflects it.
Bobisback
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2003
- Messages
- 1,169
I have some Q's first why are Ivory Silk Incense Wine Coffee and Cocoa Strategic Resources? I think you should change the food consumption back to two.I think you should to make wood easyer to find.
btw the game I just started I am maya and just got contact with another civ but the problem is that I am on turn 305 and just met my first civ
btw the game I just started I am maya and just got contact with another civ but the problem is that I am on turn 305 and just met my first civ
Downloaded it and have 1/2-way played a game ...
Very nice job. This mod really changes the dynamics of the early game, and mostly for the better. I especially like the gov't progression, not being able to reach a commerce-bonus gov't until the cusp of the Industrial Age.
Just a couple nits to pick:
One of the selling points of Libertarianism is the 200% workers, but the gov't comes at the end of the IA, when there really isn't much for workers to do anymore. (RR's should have been almost completely constructed, tiles irrigated/mined.) Maybe worth a re-think on balance for the gov't.
Why would anyone want to be an Oligarchy? There doesn't seem to be any advantage over Monarchy in any situation. So what am I missing?
And a couple of bugs (at least, I think they are bugs):
Captured cities retain culture from previous civ. Is this intentional? It really changes the balance/need to develop local culture to prevent flips. In the game I'm playing, I have built the ToA, so this may be a very specific bug.
Germanium appears in the resource box of captured cities long before the tech required to see the resource is learned. I saw Germanium in the box during the early MA.
My game was with v2.00, so maybe these have already been fixed.
The only part of the units-as-wheeled paradigm I disagree with is the inability to enter forests. Surely early civilizations lived near and at times in forests, it would have been a primary source of hunted food.
Again, Great Job!
Very nice job. This mod really changes the dynamics of the early game, and mostly for the better. I especially like the gov't progression, not being able to reach a commerce-bonus gov't until the cusp of the Industrial Age.
Just a couple nits to pick:
One of the selling points of Libertarianism is the 200% workers, but the gov't comes at the end of the IA, when there really isn't much for workers to do anymore. (RR's should have been almost completely constructed, tiles irrigated/mined.) Maybe worth a re-think on balance for the gov't.
Why would anyone want to be an Oligarchy? There doesn't seem to be any advantage over Monarchy in any situation. So what am I missing?
And a couple of bugs (at least, I think they are bugs):
Captured cities retain culture from previous civ. Is this intentional? It really changes the balance/need to develop local culture to prevent flips. In the game I'm playing, I have built the ToA, so this may be a very specific bug.
Germanium appears in the resource box of captured cities long before the tech required to see the resource is learned. I saw Germanium in the box during the early MA.
My game was with v2.00, so maybe these have already been fixed.
The only part of the units-as-wheeled paradigm I disagree with is the inability to enter forests. Surely early civilizations lived near and at times in forests, it would have been a primary source of hunted food.
Again, Great Job!
schmiddi
Prussian
DB can you offer an update from 1.0 to 2.0 or split the 2.0 file? 30 GB are to much for a dial up connection.
atomicgopher
Minigodzilla
I've never downloaded one of these before. Could some one please explain how to install this mod?
Leptomeninges
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2004
- Messages
- 97
OK, got the graphics working, thanks for your help DB. Another little issue has sprung up. My starting location now always has a white obelisk with a yellow rim in the right hand corner. I suspect this may be unrelated to your mod as it happens now with any scenario, but since I've only noticed it since I've been fiddling with your mod (and you were so helpful on the graphics) I thought I'd see if you could help me with this.
Thanks in advance.
Lepto
Thanks in advance.
Lepto
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
Gdek:
It's not specifically intentional that barbarian encampments can be unreachable -- a modder can't limit the terrain types where such encampments can appear -- but it works out well.
Bobisback:
I made an admittedly arbitrary decision to define as "strategic" *all* resources that are required for units or improvements. Luxury resources in the mod increase citizen happiness, but are not utilized for creating anything. Some of the strategic resources could be made luxury resources instead, but I don't want to have more than nine luxury resources in the mod, since I can't prevent the list on the city screen from overlapping the pollution status display.
I'm probably going to leave food consumption as it is, but I'll take a look at the appearance frequency of wood.
T_McC:
Interesting observation regarding Libertarianism. And as far as Oligarchy is concerned, it mainly allows you to get out from under the Despotism tile penalty faster than Monarchy, but I can see your point about it having no real advantage. I'll take a look at the stats again. If you have any specific suggestions regarding either government, of course, feel free to let me know!
In the 2.00 release, I deliberately set the mod to retain the culture of captured cities, though I'm not sure I'm liking the change as much as I thought I was going to.
The germanium you noticed is the result of a bug in the game when more than 32 resources exist. I finally found specific documentation about it last week; it turns out that a city connected to a resource but not connected to your capital will also have access to any strategic or luxury resource 32 steps higher on the list. I've already reordered the list to minimize the bug's impact in the "under construction" 2.02 version of BBW.
I'm kind of on the fence regarding impassible forests. I'll probably end up making them more accessible again, though, if only because doing so wouldn't really have all that much impact, anyway, since the game doesn't tend to generate large areas of forest.
Schmiddi:
It's been so long since I used a dialup connection that I hadn't even really given it much thought. What's generally considered a reasonable size for "pieces" of a download, for dialup downloaders?
Atomicgopher (great handle, by the way!):
Just unzip the file into your "civ3/conquests/conquests" folder. The mod will then be available when you click "civ content" from the main game menu.
Leptomeninges:
On the main options menu for the mod, click the "default rules" button. The obelisks are showing up because you've set the game to play with victory point locations (or whatever they're actually called). Most likely, you played one of the conquests that utilize them, and now it's coming up by default. (The game assumes when you start a new game that you want the same victory conditions, etc., that you used in your last game.)
-- Darryl
It's not specifically intentional that barbarian encampments can be unreachable -- a modder can't limit the terrain types where such encampments can appear -- but it works out well.
Bobisback:
I made an admittedly arbitrary decision to define as "strategic" *all* resources that are required for units or improvements. Luxury resources in the mod increase citizen happiness, but are not utilized for creating anything. Some of the strategic resources could be made luxury resources instead, but I don't want to have more than nine luxury resources in the mod, since I can't prevent the list on the city screen from overlapping the pollution status display.
I'm probably going to leave food consumption as it is, but I'll take a look at the appearance frequency of wood.
T_McC:
Interesting observation regarding Libertarianism. And as far as Oligarchy is concerned, it mainly allows you to get out from under the Despotism tile penalty faster than Monarchy, but I can see your point about it having no real advantage. I'll take a look at the stats again. If you have any specific suggestions regarding either government, of course, feel free to let me know!
In the 2.00 release, I deliberately set the mod to retain the culture of captured cities, though I'm not sure I'm liking the change as much as I thought I was going to.
The germanium you noticed is the result of a bug in the game when more than 32 resources exist. I finally found specific documentation about it last week; it turns out that a city connected to a resource but not connected to your capital will also have access to any strategic or luxury resource 32 steps higher on the list. I've already reordered the list to minimize the bug's impact in the "under construction" 2.02 version of BBW.
I'm kind of on the fence regarding impassible forests. I'll probably end up making them more accessible again, though, if only because doing so wouldn't really have all that much impact, anyway, since the game doesn't tend to generate large areas of forest.
Schmiddi:
It's been so long since I used a dialup connection that I hadn't even really given it much thought. What's generally considered a reasonable size for "pieces" of a download, for dialup downloaders?
Atomicgopher (great handle, by the way!):
Just unzip the file into your "civ3/conquests/conquests" folder. The mod will then be available when you click "civ content" from the main game menu.
Leptomeninges:
On the main options menu for the mod, click the "default rules" button. The obelisks are showing up because you've set the game to play with victory point locations (or whatever they're actually called). Most likely, you played one of the conquests that utilize them, and now it's coming up by default. (The game assumes when you start a new game that you want the same victory conditions, etc., that you used in your last game.)
-- Darryl
Aeon221
Lord of the Cheese Helmet
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2003
- Messages
- 1,994
Have you played Rhyes mod?
I am sure that this has already been said, but his mod has some pretty cool features that it sounds like you are parallel developing (all units wheeled, extra expensive settlers, more impassable terrain) and that at the very least you should check it out.
I will dl, play, and give input (gotta LOVVVVE da input ;p)
I am sure that this has already been said, but his mod has some pretty cool features that it sounds like you are parallel developing (all units wheeled, extra expensive settlers, more impassable terrain) and that at the very least you should check it out.
I will dl, play, and give input (gotta LOVVVVE da input ;p)
atomicgopher
Minigodzilla
@DB_in_Omaha
Thanks
Thanks
Well ... since you asked ...
I would actually suggest changing a few of the govt's:
To Monarchy, add Low War Weariness
To Oligarchy, remove War Weariness
To Feudalism, change hurry method to Forced and remove WW
To Republic, change support to 1/2/4
This creates a consistency across all of the gov'ts where systems that use the whip generate no WW. Paying the citizenry off to finish a project implies a degree of independence that is the root of the War Weariness.
It also makes the choice of gov't much more difficult for the player. In the AA, you can have freedom with the slider settings and lower corruption (Monarchy), or you can have a truly free hand to conduct military campaigns. Pop-rushing is a penalty in itself, unless you are whipping foreigners, so your choice of gov't and game tactics are closely intertwined.
Feudalism is then an improvement over Oligarchy, if your empire has lots of small towns. Again, a choice for the player to make: I can have a larger military (or stronger economy) if I de-emphasize growth in my cities.
Theocracy is then usually superior to Oligarchy, where the slightly stronger limits on the slider are more than offset by the faster workers and higher support and MP limits.
Republic would then be a superior alternative to Monarchy for a peace-time gov't, the trade bonus likely overwhelming the loss of MP and unit support. I would change the support limits for Metropoli to 4, to make the limits consistently half those of Monarchy.
The Industrial Age gov'ts could then stay the same, as Democracy vs Communism/Fascism is a decision about peace vs. War, and Communism vs. Fascism is a question of empire size.
Finally, I would change Egalitarianism by adding a Small Wonder that acts like a 2nd FP (SPHQ). I think you want this to be the uber peace-time gov't, and the idea of Communism-level corruption with Democracy-level trade fits that to a T. The price for that is very high support costs and no means to hurry projects. This also creates a decision about Egal vs. Democracy that is similar to the Comm/Fascism decision. I might even change the slider restrictions to 80% rather than 90%. Is there a way to force the player to maintain a 10% lux tax? That would also be a possible solution.
The net effect of all these changes would be to make it very rare to see a Monarchy, Oligarchy, or Feudal gov't in the IA. I think that is the right thing. If you did implement these changes, I think it would also be prudent to reduce the max Anarchy time, as I think players would have to bounce between gov'ts as conditions warranted.
That's my two cents (dollars?)
Jethro-tron
Chieftain
Haya Civ Guru's - tell me something : does militaristic civs expirience less war weariness then others? I had a war with Japan, they were (and still) under democracy and i've never attacked them before. It's already 11 turns since the war started and they look quite happy with it - thats what i see when i investigate their cities. Btw - AI have already lost 5 cities - they must be pretty scared.
Leptomeninges
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2004
- Messages
- 97
Thanks again for your help DB. I got the obelisk thing sorted out.
I've got a monarch game going as America on a huge map with 24 civs (primarily for variety since I never play as the U.S.) I'm at the end of the ancient age and will give feedback as I go (if you don't mind.) So far I haven't noticed any obvious bugs. I like the three food pop, although I expected to have to pay more attention to my cities to ensure they are viable. With the increased food production for several tiles, it doesn't require as much planning as I thought it might. You may want to reduce the food output of squares like forests and mountains to make things more interesting. (I started in grassland so maybe I just had a good starting spot.)
Also, I remember you talking about cities "self-destructing." I saw several cases of this in my game from the AI. I'm admittedly a computer idiot, but I wonder if the AI "understands" the rules change. Persia had emerged as the early dominant civ and declared war. Then suddenly several of its cities went up in smoke for no apparent reason. (I was actually siegeing one of them at the time. Suddenly as my turn began I was standing next to ruins occupied by several fortified defenders.) It was a little strange
My chief thought so far is that the small wonder for industrious seems much more useful than the one for expansionist. more workers and 25% increased production are ALWAYS useful. The reduction to corruption from the expansionist small wonder is unlikely to be useful if built in an early city near your palace (the extra explorers are only really useful if you build it in the early game) and the war weariness reduction may be useful for a few turns of each game. The extra explorers of course are useful primarliy in the early game and moreso on a huge map.
Not sure I really have a recommendation here. It's just an impression so far.
Anyway, thanks for all your work. Enjoying the mod very much.
I've got a monarch game going as America on a huge map with 24 civs (primarily for variety since I never play as the U.S.) I'm at the end of the ancient age and will give feedback as I go (if you don't mind.) So far I haven't noticed any obvious bugs. I like the three food pop, although I expected to have to pay more attention to my cities to ensure they are viable. With the increased food production for several tiles, it doesn't require as much planning as I thought it might. You may want to reduce the food output of squares like forests and mountains to make things more interesting. (I started in grassland so maybe I just had a good starting spot.)
Also, I remember you talking about cities "self-destructing." I saw several cases of this in my game from the AI. I'm admittedly a computer idiot, but I wonder if the AI "understands" the rules change. Persia had emerged as the early dominant civ and declared war. Then suddenly several of its cities went up in smoke for no apparent reason. (I was actually siegeing one of them at the time. Suddenly as my turn began I was standing next to ruins occupied by several fortified defenders.) It was a little strange
My chief thought so far is that the small wonder for industrious seems much more useful than the one for expansionist. more workers and 25% increased production are ALWAYS useful. The reduction to corruption from the expansionist small wonder is unlikely to be useful if built in an early city near your palace (the extra explorers are only really useful if you build it in the early game) and the war weariness reduction may be useful for a few turns of each game. The extra explorers of course are useful primarliy in the early game and moreso on a huge map.
Not sure I really have a recommendation here. It's just an impression so far.
Anyway, thanks for all your work. Enjoying the mod very much.
schmiddi
Prussian
I think the very maximum would be 10 GB, so to offer the full package, you'd have to split the package into three pieces.
Gojira54
The folly of Man
What on Earth are you talking about?
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
T_McC:
Wow. When I asked for suggestions, I had no idea you'd already thought things through so thoroughly.
Unfortunately, there's no way to force a low (10% or so) tax rate under Libertarianism, though it would certainly make sense to do so. The rate cap you set applies to all three allocation areas (tax, luxury and science), and it can't be set any lower than 50%.
I was going to ask what purpose a second Forbidden Palace would serve under a government with communal corruption, but then I went back and reread the description of the FP. Since it no longer serves as a second Palace, decreasing corruption in nearby cities, but rather increases your optimal number of cities and thus decreases corruption a bit in all of them, it actually *would* make sense....
-- Darryl
Wow. When I asked for suggestions, I had no idea you'd already thought things through so thoroughly.
Unfortunately, there's no way to force a low (10% or so) tax rate under Libertarianism, though it would certainly make sense to do so. The rate cap you set applies to all three allocation areas (tax, luxury and science), and it can't be set any lower than 50%.
I was going to ask what purpose a second Forbidden Palace would serve under a government with communal corruption, but then I went back and reread the description of the FP. Since it no longer serves as a second Palace, decreasing corruption in nearby cities, but rather increases your optimal number of cities and thus decreases corruption a bit in all of them, it actually *would* make sense....
-- Darryl
DB_in_Omaha
Warlord
He's suggesting that I split the download into multiple files for those stuck with dialup connections.
I'm not really sure I see the need, though. It doesn't seem like most of the large mods around here are split in such a manner (unless they've been broken up to accomodate the *upload* file size limit), and it's easy enough for someone to get software that will allow a stopped download to be resumed, anyway, making download of the entire mod at one sitting unnecessary.
*Shrug*
We'll see.
-- Darryl
(By the way, this is my 100th post. I'm into triple digits!)
