New pagan religions?

[Genghis Khaiser]

Sorry if this was settled a while ago, but it's been a long time since I last played DoC.

I was reading the Git update log, and without any updates mentioning the addition of pagan religions, I suddenly saw references to them. I updated my files, played it again (somehow the 600 AD scenario was not available), tried Vikings, Japanese and Spanish for a while, and saw that apparently, while they don't appear in the Civilopedia, there was an additional pagan religion per civ, each with its own pagan temple that is replaced once a major religion spreads into the city.

How do they work? Can they exist at the same time as major religions? Can I prevent the spread of major religions into my cities somehow? If I play as the Japanese and start with Buddhism, does that mean that I can't build Shinto temples?

 

[Leoreth]

The new pagan religions replace the old "no religion" option. Just take a look into the religion advisor.

 

[migck]

Regarding this, so far I've noticed that the civs with Vedism as their pagan religion can continue building Vedic Temples even if they have a state religion, unlike other civs. Does this obey some gameplay purpose I'm not aware of?

 

[Leoreth]

Regarding this, so far I've noticed that the civs with Vedism as their pagan religion can continue building Vedic Temples even if they have a state religion, unlike other civs. Does this obey some gameplay purpose I'm not aware of?

Nope, I'll look into it.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

Regarding this, so far I've noticed that the civs with Vedism as their pagan religion can continue building Vedic Temples even if they have a state religion, unlike other civs. Does this obey some gameplay purpose I'm not aware of?

That should be happening with Shinto, as it kept co-existing with Buddhism until this day.

Nope, I'll look into it.

Also look into the fact that pagan religions and temples are not present in the Civilopedia unless their civ is being played.

 

[Leoreth]

That is deliberate.

 

[star15389]

Would be pretty cool if Buddhism and Confucianism did not destroy pagan temples at all, not just in Japan, Tibet, and Korea where they definitely should not. They generally did not displace so much as partially absorb "pagan" religion in the places they became popular, after all. Taoism and Hinduism are a tougher case since they sort of are "pagan"

 

[mccp77]

I don't think it would be a horrible idea for gameplay reasons to just simply add a few more religions that may be pagan but played overwhelmingly important roles in history. The two I had in mind are Tengriism and Shinto.

 

[need my speed]

I don't think anyone cares about a uniquely USAn class. Which isn't to say these two religions shouldn't or couldn't be added, but the argument is silly.

 

[mccp77]

I don't think anyone cares about a uniquely USAn class. Which isn't to say these two religions shouldn't or couldn't be added, but the argument is silly.

Fair enough (I deleted parts of the above post bc they distracted from my main point), as for Shinto and Tengriism, I think those 2 religions have unique historical importance and should be included independent of everything else. Shinto will make Japan unique from mainland Asia religiously, and Tengriism will keep the Mongols from converting to some Chinese religion the moment they invade China. Shinto should be founded upon Kyoto's founding, and Tengriism's holy city should be a barbarian Ordu (Orkhan Valley city) that spawns before flipping to the Mongols.

I don't want to overextend myself here or distract from my main point. I want to focus attention on those 2.

 

[star15389]

Already the case that the Mongols rarely convert to Confucianism or Taoism. I see Buddhism, Islam, and no religion about equally often which seems about right

 

[merijn_v1]

Both Tengriism and Shintoism are already in the game as pagan religions for the Mongols (, Turkey and Mughals) and Japan respectively.

 

[mccp77]

Already the case that the Mongols rarely convert to Confucianism or Taoism. I see Buddhism, Islam, and no religion about equally often which seems about right

Fair enough, but I've seen them go Confucian multiple times which really sends me for a loop. If they were just going Buddhist or Islamic, then it'd probably bother me less.

Both Tengriism and Shintoism are already in the game as pagan religions for the Mongols (, Turkey and Mughals) and Japan respectively.

Japan is very religiously distinct from the rest of Asia, and the current system doesn't represent this well. We need something better for them even if we let Tengriism go.

 

[merijn_v1]

Japan is very religiously distinct from the rest of Asia, and the current system doesn't represent this well. We need something better for them even if we let Tengriism go.

Being the only civ with Shintoism as their pagan religion makes Japan quite religiously distinct from the other civs of Asia, if they adopt their pagan religion.

 

[Leoreth]

Well for Japan, they are probably currently too prone to adopt Buddhism as their state religion, and Buddhism spreads a bit too quickly there.

 

[star15389]

Staying pagan has no advantages for Japan so is it really possible for them to be too prone to adopting a popular religion with associated wonders? If there were a Pantheon wonder available to Japan it would make more sense. Maybe Ise-jinguu or Itsukushima-jinja though the second one is a little late. I maintain that Shinto should be represented by giving Japan a pagan temple UB instead of having it run Pantheon

 

[Leoreth]

We're talking develop branch here, all civs effectively have a pagan temple UB associated with their pagan religion, although it has no unique effects. I have removed this type of pagan temple UB so as to not tie civs to having no state religion.

 

[Ecthy]

Yeah, and pagan wonders still are the same for all, right? Is this due to change? Sorry if I'm joining the conversation late with this question.

 

[Leoreth]

No worries, I know that not everyone is playing with the newest Git changes. For pagan wonders, the important thing to know is that the Pantheon civic has been removed. Instead they follow the same rules as pagan temples: you need to have no state religion and no other major religion in the city.

 

[Ecthy]

What I mean is, will certain pagan wonders be linked to certain pagan religions? Right now, building the pyramids as Egypt depends on sheer luck, since the Babylonians will build them before, and if you stop them, the Chinese may.