new patch is on its way: 1.0.1.275, released April, 28th

[Valkrionn]

So, invest in espionage only to safeguard yourself, without any of the "fun" of spending it... Sounds like an awesome plan, that.

Better to have a Security rating separate from espionage.

Really though, my point is this: Most of the mechanics that were lost, were lost for good reasons. Rather than just reintroduce them, reimagine them, in a form that fits Civ5.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Eh; Religion ala Civ4 did not work in Civ5. There is no reason to believe that a wholly different mechanic, simply sharing the same name, could not work.

Oh, I believe that. My point was that Civ4 style Religion was not something omitted due to lack of time. In fact, based on statements and things people were able to determine through files in left over in the game, it wasn't quite the same as Civ4 anyway, they attempted to modify it (I think Shafer even mentioned a "religious victory"). Technically speaking, there already is a mechanic representing religion in the game, since the Social Policies are supposed to represent them. Doesn't mean this couldn't be changed, though.

I think health could work well in Civ5. My only point was that I don't think it was omitted due to lack of time or deliberately omitted for any other reason either.

Espionage, on the other hand, I do think was left aside due to lack of time. Probably something to do with AI programming. As for ideas, I think a new thread could be started on that (and has been in the past). I think a general idea would be to rely on units and combine with buildings to defend against them. Maybe simply infiltrate a city and slowly accumulate points (the closer to the capitol, the more faster you get points, since the anti-spy buildings would likely be built there). If they make it an infiltration-based system, it could work well with City-States, since you could subvert alliances and degrade relationships faster through espionage. They could change the United Front SP to give a boost to espionage or counter-espionage.

 

[fat_tonle]

Seems like everything goes back to the SP's... I just think they need to add more detail to the tree assuming they add these features again. I understand you need to fit everything on one screen, but haif the policies are locked most of the time. Maybe make it so that you can minimize/maximize a branch on the screen. You need more detail to add depth and maybe add some new categories. Some of the stuff still doesn't make sense. You can have free speech and democracy opened while you have communism and +5 hammer active as well? Doesn't make sense.

 

[Camikaze]

I do agree that health is useless, however

I would've thought a localised health mechanic could nicely complement a global happiness mechanic; seems to be a good opportunity for it.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Vertical growth is already hard enough in the game. To limit it by health without some other mechanic to limit expansion would unbalance things in favor of expansive civs and ICS. To split vertical and horizontal growth, on the other hand, would defeat the entire purpose of the global happiness mechanic.

With those two considerations, health becomes problematic to implement without a fairly large change in the happiness formula.

 

[Camikaze]

Well of course such plonking a health mechanic onto the game as it is would be a bit silly, but tweaking growth so that health is a constraint yet vertical growth isn't more of an overall challenge than it is currently would seem fine.

 

[KevinMiles90000]

I think any religion mechanic would probably feel rushed and incomplete, so I'm hoping for a reworking of the social policies or something that would improve the game past the industrial era.

 

[PieceOfMind]

My gut reaction on the "much requested feature" was that it would be pbem/hotseat (the implementation of the two would be fairly similar IIUC, so they would most likely come together). The end-game replay is another good guess, but I doubt it's that.

The DLL I think is a bad guess. I think Firaxis are still a long way off from releasing it, possibly because the code is poor or poorly documented enough that it would be embarrassing.

We'll find out before long anyway.

Great to see some changes being made to the tactical combat AI. These changes are often more difficult to do than a one-line comment in the patch changelog would have you believe.

The list of changes to UI aren't terribly exciting. I'm still waiting for the change note "Improved engine so that mouse inputs are accepted within milliseconds rather than deciseconds".

 

[seasnake]

I would've thought a localised health mechanic could nicely complement a global happiness mechanic; seems to be a good opportunity for it.

I agree, and my thoughts were health could affect:

City Defense
Specialist production
Great People Point production

 

[Tyrael]

Allow me to be more clear; The points themselves aren't the issue.

The fact that using espionage in turn makes you more vulnerable to the actions of others is the issue. When the same exact counter is used both to pay for espionage actions, and to protect against the actions of others, you have a fundamentally broken mechanic that is unfun.

I disagree, I think mechanics that work like this are wonderful. It creates interesting decisions when done right. It works the same way with military, too: Use it offensively and you're more vulnerable to backstabs. Do you dislike the military mechanic for this reason as well?

I think espionage as done in Civ4 was done poorly too, just not for that reason. I'm happy with espionage not being a mechanic in Civ5, and doubt it'll be put in the game anytime soon, if at all. They're more concerned with DLC and fixing up the game, as they should be- though I'm very worried at the small amount of fixes listed under "Diplomacy" so far. Maybe in part 2?

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

It isn't the complete list of part 1 fixes !

 

[Hulk]

Thanks ! Greets hulk

 

[bossconian]

I think the much requested feature will be a minimise (to taskbar) button when playing in windowed mode. However I'm not sure if that wouldn't be offered as a DLC for couple of $.

Also a good news is that Firaxis, half a year after game release, started to fix multiplayer - the "text overlaping" bug was the biggest game breaker !

 

[King_Course]

I hope that they do not try and put on an extra layer on the burger in order to make it look more attractive.

What they should do, is make sure their ingredients are quality, not just add another layer of quantity.

So no religion alongside techtree, diplomacy and social policies, thats ultimately only a new layer of micromanagement, with no assurance it will actually be any good gameplay in itself.

For me personally, loyal to a given religion (Jesus, Son of God), it will also lock me down into playing a certain way, with no intentions of doing it different in any games. Simple as that.

Espionage can be a good implementation and strengthening of diplomacy, it can raise the quality of an ingredient already in the game. So I hope they do something like that. Alot of the game right now ,is not knowing whats going on outside own borders. Would actually be nice if you could see the map of an allie, of somewhere you have an embassy, or sneaked in spies.

So you could see how their war is going, know that this civ is now attacking this civs city. More info on diplomacy as it is so very much in the dark atm. Very often, a Civ pops up, says lets declare war against this guy, you say no. Then another Civ pops up, asks for the same. You think, hey this is my friend okay I will join. Or opposite, you join a war only to realise you just stepped on your allies toes. When the screen is up you can't access any info and it turns into a guessing game sooner or later as it happens all the time. Diplomacy needs much more transluscense, in a better way than just sidebars and infoscreens. Make is so you can see allies maps for instance, show a Civs allies and enemies on the dialogue screen.

My guess is though, that they have improved the victory scenes.

 

[squadbroken]

As for Civ5 combat AI, there is lots of room for improvement, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around what was so good about Civ4 combat AI.

Nothing good about it, really. It's just that warfare in Civ 4 was so simplistic (move stack->bump stack) that the clown-shoe AI could handle it.

 

[aziantuntija]

Nothing good about it, really. It's just that warfare in Civ 4 was so simplistic (move stack->bump stack) that the clown-shoe AI could handle it.

I agree. The civ4 combat AI is not any better (or any worse for that matter) than civ5 combat AI. They both suck but civ5 suffers more of that because of the 1upt system.

Civ5 really needs better AI. Especially the terrible combat AI is really ruining the experience for me.

 

[Civsassin]

For me personally, loyal to a given religion (Jesus, Son of God), it will also lock me down into playing a certain way, with no intentions of doing it different in any games. Simple as that.

Religion would be an awesome addition. From a pure gameplay perspective, in CiIV, I understood why I was attacked or why civs didn't like me. That's what the current diplomacy system lacks right now: rhyme or reason. Players cannot understand why the AI does or acts as it does. Religion would add that sense of understanding: rhyme and reason.

The other aspect of the game that would provide a level of missing gameplay would be an espionage component. Without the ability to scout using open borders agreements, it is near impossible to really size up your opponent prior to an invasion.

 

[SRG]

The other aspect of the game that would provide a level of missing gameplay would be an espionage component. Without the ability to scout using open borders agreements, it is near impossible to really size up your opponent prior to an invasion.

I would like espionage to be much simplified.

The tech would result in a unit: Spy. This unit has only 2 abilities, can not gain promotions, and can not attack or defend. It is completely and totally invisible (pass borders, etc) and it can pillage tiles with a 50% to get caught and a 25% chance to identify you (causing you to declare war immediately).

That is my hope for espionage. Let that be it. Maybe have spies capable of spotting spies or something. Maybe not, but make them very very expensive hammer-wise (lengthy and expensive training).

 

[Civsassin]

I would like espionage to be much simplified.

The tech would result in a unit: Spy. This unit has only 2 abilities, can not gain promotions, and can not attack or defend. It is completely and totally invisible (pass borders, etc) and it can pillage tiles with a 50% to get caught and a 25% chance to identify you (causing you to declare war immediately).

That is my hope for espionage. Let that be it. Maybe have spies capable of spotting spies or something. Maybe not, but make them very very expensive hammer-wise (lengthy and expensive training).

I am not that concerned about how they implement it; they have some bright and creative folks on their team. I'm sure they can come up with a useful and intuitive method. I would just like some sort of spy component.

 

[troytheface]

i heard that the new patch makes combat like in rome total war and you zoom in and see like groups of moai warriors beating their shields and stuff