New terrain features

its connected to gathering, yes - but when I had it next to a city in a new game, I could not build it because it would require the gatherer to remove the forest first.
For me its rather a logical question here too... because most mushrooms I got to know til now are growing in a forest. But then, I have not much background knowledge on mushrooms, so I could be completely wrong with this assumption too
 
As Pin stated, you remove the protective covering from the mushroom growing area and the mushroom Will disappear.

JosEPh
 
I think this may have been mentioned before. But yeah, mushrooms should NOT require the removal of the forest! !!

@Hydro: is this a task for you or DH? Or should I go in and tweak that little setting on that?
 
Thunderbrd said:
I think this may have been mentioned before. But yeah, mushrooms should NOT require the removal of the forest! !!

@Hydro: is this a task for you or DH? Or should I go in and tweak that little setting on that?
Click to expand...

Correct, but I don't know which tag marks the improvement as not removing forests.
 
It is already marked as not to remove the covering but that means you need the tech if the mushrooms are on those features. It is easy to correct just remove all mention of the features.

I'll be doing an update soon which will fix mushroom and papyrus plus get the cactus feature in. But first I need to create a remove cactus improvement and figure out which bonuses need to remove the cactus when worked.
 
This is a current list of all the land terrain features that can appear on the various terrains.

Plain tile without Fresh Water No feature Jungle Forest Tree Nursery Young Forest New Forest Ancient Forest Bamboo Savanna Very Tall Grass Burnt Forest Mangrove Swamp Peat Bog Cactus Tar Pit Flood Plains Oasis
Grassland special special special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Lush special special n/a n/a special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Plains n/a special special special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Barren n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Rocky n/a n/a special special n/a n/a special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Desert n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a River
Scrub n/a n/a special special n/a n/a special n/a n/a n/a River
Dunes n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a River
Salt Flats n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Tundra n/a special special n/a n/a n/a n/a special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Permafrost n/a special special n/a n/a n/a n/a special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Ice n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Marsh n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Coastal n/a n/a n/a
Muddy special special n/a n/a special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a

Hills n/a
Peaks n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a

Most are placed by the map scripts. Mangroves and Cactus are currently placed by the C2C special post map script script. Cactus should not need to be done that way but Mangroves need a latitude and coastal restriction that is not supported by the XML.

Tree Nursery is an improvement that upgrades to improvement Young Forest when worked which is replaced by the feature New Forest (- ah ha there is the bug there is no need for "new Forest" it should just be Forest I think.)

So are there any of these that are wrong? IE should features occur elsewhere or are they appearing where they should not?
 
Why would swamp be available on Permafrost?

And Mangrove can really dominate a coastal marsh/hill area. But jungles can't have marsh land?

Why no cactus on rocky? And no flood plains on grass or plain?

Just curious.

JosEPh
 
I don't see why Jungle and Bamboo can't also be on marsh, there are plenty of RW examples of this.

I don't see why Ancient forest could not also be on Lush and "Tundra"
(The way this mod uses Tundra, it is badly named it should really be called "Boreal" because it is a subarctic climate and can support forests. Tundras, by their definition as a cold treeless plain cannot really support forests. "Permafrost" would be better called Tundra, and hence IMO should also not be capable of supporting forests.

Why can anything be on Barren? Its Barren, seeing Bamboo Savanna or tall grass on them looks odd. I know it sucks not have something on barran which at its base gives nothing, but that is the whole point. Barren terrain sucks, it can't grow crap, that's why it is barren.

I don't think Swamp should be able to exist on "Permafrost" (or Tundra if its renamed) The ground is frozen nearly year-round, (ie permanently frosted/frozen.) It doesnt not mean it can't become boggy, but to me (probably because of the graphics used) the swamp feature put the idea of a more southernly type of swamp in my mind. Where as "Bog" as in "Peat Bog" makes me thing of northernly cold ones. So, I'd drop swamp from "Permafrost" and allow peat bog on "Permafrost".

Tar pits are just a location that pitch seepage, it could occur anywhere, no reason to restrict it, excpt maybe on hills, but only because it makes the graphic look weird. That and seepage usually occurs in a low spot.

For the same reasons as above, Oasis on hills looks odd, and the water surfacing tends to occur in a low spot that the ground water escapes from. Although I never understood why an oasis can't be coastal or riverside, is that still disabled?

Why can't flood plains be on... plains?, or muddy or marshes? That tends to be exactly what they are.

You don't have the various rock out crops on this list, are those handled just by the post map script?
 
I like having barren have some feature potential. Just means the land is next to infertile, but there could be some hardy plants there. I'd like it if it could have floodplain actually. Could make some sense.
 
I just thought it was time for a review of what we had, just to be sure it was right, what with so many changes going in. I will be adding :hammers: etc to the table and then doing ones for improvements, resources and animals.

iirc Flood Plains were on many terrains before but were removed as OP.

All rock outcrops are the same and are done by the map script.

edit I think I have figured out why cactus is not being placed by the map scripts - it can only go on desert or scrub which have 0:hammers: but the -1:hammers: it gives means that it can only go on plots that give at least one hammer.

JosEPh_II said:
Why would swamp be available on Permafrost?

And Mangrove can really dominate a coastal marsh/hill area. But jungles can't have marsh land?

Just curious.

JosEPh
Click to expand...

Swamp and peat bog got swapped as some stage but not completely. Mangroves do dominate the marshy coastal regions here in Australia. If American map script writers can assume all continents have their main mountain range on the west, I don't see why I can't use assumptions based on local conditions also.:mischief:

0100010 said:
I don't see why Jungle and Bamboo can't also be on marsh, there are plenty of RW examples of this.
Click to expand...

You will end up with equal amounts of Jungle and Bamboo and I will need to edit the post-map script to change mangroves.

0100010 said:
I don't think Swamp should be able to exist on "Permafrost" (or Tundra if its renamed) The ground is frozen nearly year-round, (ie permanently frosted/frozen.) It doesnt not mean it can't become boggy, but to me (probably because of the graphics used) the swamp feature put the idea of a more southernly type of swamp in my mind. Where as "Bog" as in "Peat Bog" makes me thing of northernly cold ones. So, I'd drop swamp from "Permafrost" and allow peat bog on "Permafrost".
Click to expand...

Let me guess you live where the nearest pole is to the north of you not like me where the nearest pole is to the south.:mischief:

0100010 said:
For the same reasons as above, Oasis on hills looks odd, and the water surfacing tends to occur in a low spot that the ground water escapes from. Although I never understood why an oasis can't be coastal or riverside, is that still disabled?
Click to expand...

Iirc it is because you can't couldn't have two features on the same plot and having the oasis over write a flood plain was bad. We now can have multiple features on a plot but the map scripts need to be updated.

0100010 said:
Why can't flood plains be on... plains?, or muddy or marshes? That tends to be exactly what they are.
Click to expand...

As I said elsewhere this was Op and it meant that you could not have forests or jungles next to those rivers. This has changed with multi features but I don't think we have made full use of them yet.

0100010 said:
You don't have the various rock out crops on this list, are those handled just by the post map script?
Click to expand...

Done. They are added by the normal map scripts.

@hydro what about the jungle and bamboo on marsh?
 
If you need an additional word for the cold lands with forests, you could use the term "Taiga" too.

Spoiler :
Wikipedia - Tundra:
In physical geography, tundra is a biome where the tree growth is hindered by low temperatures and short growing seasons. The term tundra comes through Russian тундра from the Kildin Sami word tūndâr "uplands", "treeless mountain tract".[1] There are three types of tundra: Arctic tundra,[2] alpine tundra,[2] and Antarctic tundra.[3] In tundra, the vegetation is composed of dwarf shrubs, sedges and grasses, mosses, and lichens. Scattered trees grow in some tundra. The ecotone (or ecological boundary region) between the tundra and the forest is known as the tree line or timberline.

Wikipedia - Taiga
Taiga (/ˈtaɪɡə/; Russian: тайга́; IPA: [tɐjˈɡa]; from Turkic[1] or Mongolian), also known as boreal forest, is a biome characterized by coniferous forests consisting mostly of pines, spruces and larches. [...] The term "boreal forest" is sometimes used (particularly in Canada but also in Scandinavia and Finland) to refer to the more southerly part of the biome, while the term taiga is often used to describe the more barren areas of the northernmost part of the taiga approaching the tree line and the tundra biome. [...] Discontinuous permafrost is found in areas with mean annual temperature below 0 °C, whilst in the Dfd and Dwd climate zones continuous permafrost occurs and restricts growth to very shallow-rooted trees like Siberian larch. The winters, with average temperatures below freezing, last five to seven months. Temperatures vary from −54 °C to 30 °C (-65 °F to 86 °F) throughout the whole year. The summers, while short, are generally warm and humid. In much of the taiga, -20 °C would be a typical winter day temperature and 18 °C an average summer day.
 
Proposed terrain features by terrains.
Plain tile without Fresh Water No feature Jungle New Forest Forest Ancient Forest Burnt Forest Bamboo Savanna Very Tall Grass Mangrove Swamp Peat Bog Cactus Tar Pit Flood Plains Oasis Rock Form
Grassland 2:food: special special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Lush 3:food: special special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Plains 1:food:1:hammers: n/a special special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Barren - n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Dark forms
Rocky 1:hammers: n/a special special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Dark forms
Desert - n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a River Desert forms
Scrub 1:food: n/a special special n/a n/a n/a River Desert forms
Dunes - n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a River Desert forms
Salt Flats - n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Tundra 1:food: n/a special special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Permafrost - n/a special special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Polar forms
Ice - n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a Polar forms
Marsh 1:food:1:hammers: n/a special special n/a n/a Coastal n/a n/a n/a Polar forms
Muddy 1:food:1:hammers: special special n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a

Hills yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes no no yes no no no no yes
Peaks n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a

And on the tree nursery improvements I need to go over them again and fix stuff.

Basically the building improvement should also put a feature on the plot and upgrading the improvement should upgrade the feature with the last improvement in the line removing the improvement. The problem is to make the improvement and upgrade worth while but not over powered.

So Tree Nursery is just an improvement and can be removed by pillaging the plot. It provides +1:hammers: to the plot, just like a forest does.

When worked it upgrades to the "Young Forest" improvement and the "New Forest" feature is placed on the map this should give a total of 2:hammers: and is equivalent to having a new forest with a forester managing it. You need to pillage to remove the improvement or chop the trees which should also remove the improvement.

When the "Young Forest" improvement is worked it upgrades to the "Plant Forest" improvement which is replaced by the Forest feature.
Plain tile without Fresh Water Tree Nursery Young Forest
Grassland
Lush
Plains
Barren n/a n/a
Rocky
Desert n/a n/a
Scrub
Dunes n/a n/a
Salt Flats n/a n/a
Tundra
Permafrost
Ice n/a n/a
Marsh n/a n/a
Muddy

Hills yes yes
Peaks n/a n/a
 
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