New Unit ~ Hand-Axe!

I think the fallacy is to think that spiritualism is the original state of affairs which got lost in most societies but remains in NA societies.
I think that this "more spiritually based connection with nature" came about later AFTER NA peoples had already damaged their environment irreparably.

Animals hunted to extinction by Native Americans:
(Source: UCSB)
Other forms of impact include deforestation and creating a man-made desert (Anasazi) et al.

I'm not saying that NA cultures were inherently more detrimental to their environment than others (because they weren't) - just that a romanticized idea of their communion with nature is not doing them justice.

Except it's not a romanticizing at all. You can have the kinds of spirituality I mentioned and still hunt down animals to extinction - which is exactly the case

For example, most of their rituals are rooted not at all because of modern developments. E.g. Sun Dance
 
Germany can do with early machine gun type units.

I agree, I think that the handaxe is an excellent way to buff Germany(and make their UA more interesting.) providing a unit type not otherwise available

Doing that with more early barb units would be interesting. (say a move 6 horseman replacement?)

It also appears barb units may get special promotions.
 
While the discussion of whether Hand-axe is a good name or whether it looks Native American is a good one, I'm more interested in why the heck it was necessary to make Barbs worse than they are.

Chariot Archers were by far (for me, at least) the most feared units in earlygame purely because of their speed.

They might be feared, but I never feared a Barbarian Chariot Archer because they couldn't build them.
 
Occam's razor. It's a new barb.

If I had to further guess, it's a medieval barb to replace the Pike. Probably between the Pike and the Longsword in terms of combat strength.

They are adding some stuff involving converting later game barbs, they had to make them look a little bit like barbs. Pikes were always a little problematic, and converting Iron units isn't always going to be a good thing.

Some of the speculation is just beyond crazy.
 
I think the fallacy is to think that spiritualism is the original state of affairs which got lost in most societies but remains in NA societies.
I think that this "more spiritually based connection with nature" came about later AFTER NA peoples had already damaged their environment irreparably.

Animals hunted to extinction by Native Americans:
(Source: UCSB)
Other forms of impact include deforestation and creating a man-made desert (Anasazi) et al.

I'm not saying that NA cultures were inherently more detrimental to their environment than others (because they weren't) - just that a romanticized idea of their communion with nature is not doing them justice.

Just a quick comment here - it depends on what native civs you are talk about when you talk about the connection with nature. A lot of the more powerful native civs like the Inca, Aztecs, etc. had far less connection to the natural world than less sedentary civs. That's a standard that happened everywhere any anywhere in the world. Lets put it this way, almost all of the jungles were cut down in the Maya sphere of influence and farmers lived fairly sedentary lives. That said, the holy book and teachings of the Maya and other sedentary cultures still taught that respect for the surroundings ought to be something everyone does [According to the Popol Vuh the gods ripped off a bunch of our heads, melted our flesh, ate our organs, and covered the world in ash the last time we disobeyed this :p]

Also what you said about the Anasazi is false. That's an old theory you state from several decades ago that has since long been dying out, the area was long a desert landscape prior. Many droughts had happened before with minimal to no effects on the Anasazi for centuries and middling results and the desert shrubbery show the "man made" desert to be entirely false.

Environmental Determinism is one of the biggest problems imo that history is dealing with right now. So many revisionists want to blame every decline of a native, Asian, or generally Non-European civilization to a mishandling of the environment... which is utter crap.

Its the evolution of the genotype based racist theories of history from 100 years ago, manifested into trying to claim every non-European culture was utterly irresponsible. Normally when looking at the science too, we see other results rather than the Environmental Determinism bias currently going on. Even the most classic case, Rapa Nui/Easter Island has more critics than supporters these days. European disease, slavery [Ships over to Peru], decimated and decimated the population. So much so that a cultural shift happened on Rapa Nui where military Juntas replaced the religious leaderships to try and stop the deathtolls.
 
Occam's razor. It's a new barb.

If I had to further guess, it's a medieval barb to replace the Pike. Probably between the Pike and the Longsword in terms of combat strength.

They are adding some stuff involving converting later game barbs, they had to make them look a little bit like barbs. Pikes were always a little problematic, and converting Iron units isn't always going to be a good thing.

Some of the speculation is just beyond crazy.

Our leaker said they replaced the Barbarian Chariot Archer [Since Barbs couldn't produce horse units before, its to have a more mobile barbarian ranged unit]
 
Our leaker said they replaced the Barbarian Chariot Archer [Since Barbs couldn't produce horse units before, its to have a more mobile barbarian ranged unit]

Ranged unit with an Axe? You sure the leaker not messing with us haha. Still think it's a barb regardless, still a little funny.
 
Just a quick comment here - it depends on what native civs you are talk about when you talk about the connection with nature. A lot of the more powerful native civs like the Inca, Aztecs, etc. had far less connection to the natural world than less sedentary civs. That's a standard that happened everywhere any anywhere in the world. Lets put it this way, almost all of the jungles were cut down in the Maya sphere of influence and farmers lived fairly sedentary lives. That said, the holy book and teachings of the Maya and other sedentary cultures still taught that respect for the surroundings ought to be something everyone does [According to the Popol Vuh the gods ripped off a bunch of our heads, melted our flesh, ate our organs, and covered the world in ash the last time we disobeyed this :p]

Also what you said about the Anasazi is false. That's an old theory you state from several decades ago that has since long been dying out, the area was long a desert landscape prior. Many droughts had happened before with minimal to no effects on the Anasazi for centuries and middling results and the desert shrubbery show the "man made" desert to be entirely false.

Environmental Determinism is one of the biggest problems imo that history is dealing with right now. So many revisionists want to blame every decline of a native, Asian, or generally Non-European civilization to a mishandling of the environment... which is utter crap.

Its the evolution of the genotype based racist theories of history from 100 years ago, manifested into trying to claim every non-European culture was utterly irresponsible. Normally when looking at the science too, we see other results rather than the Environmental Determinism bias currently going on. Even the most classic case, Rapa Nui/Easter Island has more critics than supporters these days. European disease, slavery [Ships over to Peru], decimated and decimated the population. So much so that a cultural shift happened on Rapa Nui where military Juntas replaced the religious leaderships to try and stop the deathtolls.

It's not a case of racism at all, but just a cold hard observation about life on Earth in general. Animals and by extension people don't because "in tune" with their environment out of some religious or spiritual connection, but rather through finding an equilibrium as the environment adjusts to their presence. This generally involves some kind of extinction and in some cases climate change.

Where to start here though... how about Rapa Nui. I have no idea what research your are reading, but what happened on Rapa Nui is well established. The local people had, through massive deforestation and hunting managed to send extinct many species of trees and the entire population of land birds on the island leading a fragile ecosystem into collapse, as well as their own populations. The loss of large trees in particular caused major issues with them no longer being able to build sea worthy vessels. The island had already declined by the point that European Missionaries had arrived. When picking an example, this is probably one of the worst you could pick. That said, Europeans certainly did not help the situation upon their arrival, but to ignore the man made environmental collapse that happened over the centuries before is absolute madness.

Then there's Aotearoa also known as New Zealand, which had similar problems, but was survivable due to the size of the land mass. Most famously though they managed in the case of about a century or so cause enough environmental damage through deforestation and hunting to send the Moa and Haast's Eagle (sometimes referred to as the Pouakai) as well as a host of others extinct.

On the other hand there are certainly cases where there has been some revision in some areas. Environmental change where humans are present isn't always cased directly by them, but there are innumerable cases where it can be quite conclusively done so. To claim otherwise is just taking the argument to the other extreme and is no better than the old racist genetic theories you seem to be using your argument as a stick to beat. I however don't exactly see the point as it's well established that such racist theories are wrong. However, understanding the environmental effect humans have is nothing like this and has literally nothing to do with race, but rather it is just something that humans have done as they have migrated.

It is well established that a common thread through the Quaternary extinctions and Holocene extinctions has been the arrival of humans and there has been well established environmental impacts from normal human occupation, including deforestation and other activities such as fire farming. Extinction of megafauna is the most common trend, and it is most obvious with recently arrived human populations such as Madagascar (c. 2000 years ago), Indian Oceanic Islands (c. 1500 years ago), various Polynesian Islands (c. 700+ years ago) and so forth. That said, not all extinctions are attributed to humans, but a large number, particularly of larger animals, has been linked to human migration. It is important to note that this is not limited to any singular cultural group.
 
It's not a case of racism at all, but just a cold hard observation about life on Earth in general. Animals and by extension people don't because "in tune" with their environment out of some religious or spiritual connection, but rather through finding an equilibrium as the environment adjusts to their presence. This generally involves some kind of extinction and in some cases climate change.

Where to start here though... how about Rapa Nui. I have no idea what research your are reading, but what happened on Rapa Nui is well established. The local people had, through massive deforestation and hunting managed to send extinct many species of trees and the entire population of land birds on the island leading a fragile ecosystem into collapse, as well as their own populations. The loss of large trees in particular caused major issues with them no longer being able to build sea worthy vessels. The island had already declined by the point that European Missionaries had arrived. When picking an example, this is probably one of the worst you could pick. That said, Europeans certainly did not help the situation upon their arrival, but to ignore the man made environmental collapse that happened over the centuries before is absolute madness.

Then there's Aotearoa also known as New Zealand, which had similar problems, but was survivable due to the size of the land mass. Most famously though they managed in the case of about a century or so cause enough environmental damage through deforestation and hunting to send the Moa and Haast's Eagle (sometimes referred to as the Pouakai) as well as a host of others extinct.

On the other hand there are certainly cases where there has been some revision in some areas. Environmental change where humans are present isn't always cased directly by them, but there are innumerable cases where it can be quite conclusively done so. To claim otherwise is just taking the argument to the other extreme and is no better than the old racist genetic theories you seem to be using your argument as a stick to beat. I however don't exactly see the point as it's well established that such racist theories are wrong. However, understanding the environmental effect humans have is nothing like this and has literally nothing to do with race, but rather it is just something that humans have done as they have migrated.

It is well established that a common thread through the Quaternary extinctions and Holocene extinctions has been the arrival of humans and there has been well established environmental impacts from normal human occupation, including deforestation and other activities such as fire farming. Extinction of megafauna is the most common trend, and it is most obvious with recently arrived human populations such as Madagascar (c. 2000 years ago), Indian Oceanic Islands (c. 1500 years ago), various Polynesian Islands (c. 700+ years ago) and so forth. That said, not all extinctions are attributed to humans, but a large number, particularly of larger animals, has been linked to human migration. It is important to note that this is not limited to any singular cultural group.

What the :sad:... I had a great reply to this and then the stupid page refreshed. I'll restate my gist quickly though:
====

You are simply wrong on Rapa Nui. And I am not calling you nor anyone else a racist. Just that "Environmental Determinism" has replaced the racist theories of genetic inferiority from 50-100 years ago.

The first case for ecocide on Easter Island comes from French explore La Perouse who speculated that Rapa Nui's inhabitants cut down all of its trees, writing:

"They exposed their soil to the burning ardor of the sun, and has deprived them of ravines, brooks, and springs...". He believed that they destroyed their soils to the point of decline, which as you will see is false.

His treatise is easily refuted by the earlier Dutch explorer in 1722 (Jacob Roggeven):

"People mistook the parched up grass, hay, and or other scorched and charred brushwood for a soil of arid nature, because from its outward appearance it suggested no other idea than that of an extraordinarily sparse and meager vegetation." He then goes on to mention his soil samples demonstrating a rich soil, unlike what it appeared. He goes on to say then too, "We found exceedingly fruitful swathes of producing bananas, potatoes, rows of sugar-cane of remarkable thickness, and many other harvestable fruits of the earth, although destitute of many trees and domestic animals"
======

The Island's soils had not declined and its been proven in the last 10 years or archaeological research.

Excavations at Anakena from 2003-2010 coupled with radiocarbon dates, show that soils never actually decreased in quality from the start of human inhabitation until European contact. Limestone sinkholes act as excellent sediment traps show that soils on the contrary relatively increased in richness over the centuries during human inhabitation even until the contact with Europeans.

Archaeological and Paleo-environmental research on Rapa Nui of sand shifts and radiocarbon samples from undisturbed clay deposits demonstrate that the forests remained steady and times actually increased during human habitation of Rapa Nui unlike the claims of ecocide state. I will explain why forests declined now:
======

So what happened to the forests? As archaeologists now realize, Rapa Nui wasn't the only pacific island to lose the majority of its forests during the same time period. Hawaii, nearly uninhabited Pacific Atolls, Rapa Nui etc. all see a crash in native forests.

Why? The Pacific Rat (Rattus exulans), was a non-native species that through trade contacts/routes was carried over to various Pacific islands. These rats breed so quickly and eat almost any tree seed, including the incredibly tough shelled coconuts. Trees went extinct on various islands across the Pacific that were largely uninhabited, due to this rat. We find the corpses of these rats on Rapa Nui everywhere, buried into the archaeological records in Easter Island, Hawaii, etc. their sudden appearance led to drives to kill the rat that were largely unsuccessful. In 3 years from their introduction across various Pacific islands, the population is estimated to have increased to 17 million rats. That ate through forest after forest. The subsequent die off of the rats is also included in the archaeological record at excavations on Rapa Nui.
=======

So now that most pacific Archaeologists dismiss the silly idea of purposeful ecocide of the trees, let me address the Genocide vs "Environmental Determinism" ecocide.

Ethnographer Alfred Metraux long described the period after the Dutch explorers of 1722 on Rapa Nui as a period of Genocide. Only in the last 30 years did that tale get twisted to environmental determinism and thankfully, its finally being returned back to a tale of genocide, rather than determinism [As its being taught again properly in universities like Hawaii, California, etc. once again, it will take time, but the truth will once again facilitate]. Habitation sites remained with steady growth from 1350-1650. From 1650-1722, habitation sites according to our techniques of obsidian hydration, not only remained stable, they grew on Rapa Nui. Population didn't decline unlike most "Ecocidists" claim, it grew substantially. So what happened?

The natives tell tales of disease, slavery, murder, rape, etc. once Europeans made contact. The obsidian hydrations records, show that during this time of European contact, population halved every 50-70 years. Slave records in the Spanish Colonies show thousands of Rapa Nui islanders being removed to the mines of South America. Prior to European contact, Rapa Nui populated in the thousands. By 1870, population had decreased to 100.

All environmental determinism has done, is raped the historical record of its cruelty and European destruction of the island
 
Ranged unit with an Axe? You sure the leaker not messing with us haha. Still think it's a barb regardless, still a little funny.

I think you misunderstand, its not replacing the chariot archer completely, its just the barbarian replacement for it :p
 
What the :sad:... I had a great reply to this and then the stupid page refreshed. I'll restate my gist quickly though:
====

You are simply wrong on Rapa Nui. And I am not calling you nor anyone else a racist. Just that "Environmental Determinism" has replaced the racist theories of genetic inferiority from 50-100 years ago.

The first case for ecocide on Easter Island comes from French explore La Perouse who speculated that Rapa Nui's inhabitants cut down all of its trees, writing:

"They exposed their soil to the burning ardor of the sun, and has deprived them of ravines, brooks, and springs...". He believed that they destroyed their soils to the point of decline, which as you will see is false.

His treatise is easily refuted by the earlier Dutch explorer in 1722 (Jacob Roggeven):

"People mistook the parched up grass, hay, and or other scorched and charred brushwood for a soil of arid nature, because from its outward appearance it suggested no other idea than that of an extraordinarily sparse and meager vegetation." He then goes on to mention his soil samples demonstrating a rich soil, unlike what it appeared. He goes on to say then too, "We found exceedingly fruitful swathes of producing bananas, potatoes, rows of sugar-cane of remarkable thickness, and many other harvestable fruits of the earth, although destitute of many trees and domestic animals"
======

The Island's soils had not declined and its been proven in the last 10 years or archaeological research.

Excavations at Anakena from 2003-2010 coupled with radiocarbon dates, show that soils never actually decreased in quality from the start of human inhabitation until European contact. Limestone sinkholes act as excellent sediment traps show that soils on the contrary relatively increased in richness over the centuries during human inhabitation even until the contact with Europeans.

Archaeological and Paleo-environmental research on Rapa Nui of sand shifts and radiocarbon samples from undisturbed clay deposits demonstrate that the forests remained steady and times actually increased during human habitation of Rapa Nui unlike the claims of ecocide state. I will explain why forests declined now:
======

So what happened to the forests? As archaeologists now realize, Rapa Nui wasn't the only pacific island to lose the majority of its forests during the same time period. Hawaii, nearly uninhabited Pacific Atolls, Rapa Nui etc. all see a crash in native forests.

Why? The Pacific Rat (Rattus exulans), was a non-native species that through trade contacts/routes was carried over to various Pacific islands. These rats breed so quickly and eat almost any tree seed, including the incredibly tough shelled coconuts. Trees went extinct on various islands across the Pacific that were largely uninhabited, due to this rat. We find the corpses of these rats on Rapa Nui everywhere, buried into the archaeological records in Easter Island, Hawaii, etc. their sudden appearance led to drives to kill the rat that were largely unsuccessful. In 3 years from their introduction across various Pacific islands, the population is estimated to have increased to 17 million rats. That ate through forest after forest. The subsequent die off of the rats is also included in the archaeological record at excavations on Rapa Nui.
=======

So now that most pacific Archaeologists dismiss the silly idea of purposeful ecocide of the trees, let me address the Genocide vs "Environmental Determinism" ecocide.

Ethnographer Alfred Metraux long described the period after the Dutch explorers of 1722 on Rapa Nui as a period of Genocide. Only in the last 30 years did that tale get twisted to environmental determinism and thankfully, its finally being returned back to a tale of genocide, rather than determinism [As its being taught again properly in universities like Hawaii, California, etc. once again, it will take time, but the truth will once again facilitate]. Habitation sites remained with steady growth from 1350-1650. From 1650-1722, habitation sites according to our techniques of obsidian hydration, not only remained stable, they grew on Rapa Nui. Population didn't decline unlike most "Ecocidists" claim, it grew substantially. So what happened?

The natives tell tales of disease, slavery, murder, rape, etc. once Europeans made contact. The obsidian hydrations records, show that during this time of European contact, population halved every 50-70 years. Slave records in the Spanish Colonies show thousands of Rapa Nui islanders being removed to the mines of South America. Prior to European contact, Rapa Nui populated in the thousands. By 1870, population had decreased to 100.

All environmental determinism has done, is raped the historical record of its cruelty and European destruction of the island

So they did destroy the forests.. But through spreading an invasive species rather than chopping down. (However the loss of forest in the 1300s was not the only factor in the peoples' condition in the 1800s Europeans had a really big effect)
 
And the loss of forests had pretty much 0 effect on population, as seen on Rapa Nui, Hawaii, and other instances of the Pacific rat

Its funny, the west has to retroactively change history to try and scare itself into doing something about its climate change problems. Ultimately, undermining the actual history and reality of natives across the world
 
Possibly against, the Barbarian Galley was confirmed to have been seen in a video. Not sure if the brute has been seen too. If it has, then they changed how Barbarians worked if it is a barbarian unit. Previously it was only possible for 2 Unique Units per civ. The Barbarians were coded as a civ too
 
Is it impossible to give more than two UUs to a Civ via a mod or is it just not done?
 
It's possible, it's just not done, because you would then have to give a 3rd unique to EVERY other civ (which is 42 more Uniques)

The game engine or game balance would force you to?
Since game balance doesn't matter to barbarians it would be fine.
 
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