New Version - June 12th (6-12)

[Txurce]

I don't know if this is just an impression, but I believe that AI is settling more slowly than before, maybe it is adapting better than humans to a scenario with fewer happiness available from the beginning.

In my game, my city number and size were average and below-average, respectively. The happiness differential was huge, though.

 

[CrazyG]

The big thing for me is that Fealty is really great if you have a religion. Monastaries can effectively get you +3 science per city just from the opener, which is sweet. I'm guessing getting a religion is pretty difficult on Deity?

Fealty is great with certain religions. If you have zealotry or want to do some Boroburdur missionary spam, fealty is great. If your goal is to enhance and reform your religion, Fealty actually doesn't help that much. Are you buying monasteries before you enhance, how long does it delay the prophet? You can get really far ahead in religion through temples and the grand temple, or Hagia Sophia.

Fealty vs artistry comes down to food/faith against culture/happiness. Culture is regarded as the best yield on this forum (yet many of the same people think golden age points are weak). Artistry has the most happiness and its easy happiness (no building castles in non-border cities). The finisher reveals extra landmarks too.

Well, Statecraft is really built for a Diplomatic victory, isn't that the idea? I just know that if I don't pick Statecraft I'm going to have to fight to control the World Congress, and the yields you get from the opener on Statecraft are really nice.

I love the Statecraft opener, and I love the extra votes, but I don't like unhappiness.

 

[Stalker0]

I don’t think policy balance should be high on the list right now until happiness stabilizes, as that certainly affects perceptions.

Cs wise, I found tradition has an early advantage in cs due to faster and more frequent embassies. Gives me more votes and the paper to build more diplo units.

By mid game wides production advantages start to overtake and the cs votes becomes stronger than the handful of embassy votes.

 

[JamesNinelives]

If your goal is to enhance and reform your religion, Fealty actually doesn't help that much. Are you buying monasteries before you enhance, how long does it delay the prophet? You can get really far ahead in religion through temples and the grand temple, or Hagia Sophia.

Of course you aren't going to spam monastaries if you're racing to enhance your religion. Fealty helps a lot with reformation though - more faith and reduced purchasing costs means getting those missionaries out sooner.

And yes, I love Hagia Sophia, temples and the grand temple! They only get better when you can do more with the faith they generate.

Happiness aside, I do think Fealty would benefit from moving some things around to make it more flexible. Having only one policy choice at the top is a little annoying. I think the tree as a whole is pretty decent though.

 

[CrazyG]

Fealty helps a lot with reformation though - more faith and reduced purchasing costs means getting those missionaries out sooner.

I really don't want to drag this conversation out. Fealty can help you reform you religion a few turns earlier. I don't know what makes you think you should invest 6 social policies for that benefit, but go for it man.

I think Enrico said it best, when saying that statecraft is niche. Fealty is niche too, though less so. Artistry oddly enough isn't very niche and should be the general pick

 

[chicorbeef]

Statecraft has a solid niche that it performs well. The playstyle of spamming Chanceries/Diplo Units can actually be pretty powerful, it just relies on having lots of CS nearby and achievable CS quests.

Fealty would be better if wide wasn't punished so heavily.

Artistry only beats out the other two right now because of Specialist benefits/unhappiness. It's not inherently OP, it's just made that way because of the current happiness system, the way I see it.

 

[Txurce]

I think Enrico said it best, when saying that statecraft is niche. Fealty is niche too, though less so. Artistry oddly enough isn't very niche and should be the general pick

Artistry has obvious strengths, in that nothing may matter more in this game than happiness and culture. But up until this patch, I haven't had issues with happiness. I'm assuming you haven't, either. Given that, I find the advantages of Statecraft to extend well beyond what the policies do for you, because of the WC. As chicorbeef pointed out, it's easy to knock out diplo units. Being able to gather more votes via spheres of influence, sanction your main rival(s), and time when to go for a project like the Grand Canal or the culture one... on top of all the normal ones like more science or cultural GPs, etc... make it my go-to tree when I'm managing unhappiness easily.

 

[Jarula]

I have a good idea for revolts...

Revolting units get a unique promo +X% where x is 5X unihappiness.

Perhaps remove the auto flipping thing

 

[tu_79]

I have a good idea for revolts...

Revolting units get a unique promo +X% where x is 5X unihappiness.

Perhaps remove the auto flipping thing

Auto flipping is another mechanic to help the player deal with overexpansion. Lose one city, regain the control.

 

[Gazebo]

I’m currently mid-move, so I won’t be doing any updates for the rest of the month. As I said, any concerns about unhappiness can be tweaked in the CityHappiness.sql file. Otherwise I don’t see any outstanding issues. Happiness was behaving fine for the AI, I’m surprised at the reports of early game problems.

G

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I'm surprised the no AI unhappiness happens in your tests when even on the previous, far more lenient version AI was constantly at -10 or -20% unhappy CS when fighting me. I'm not being angry or trying to attack you, but I'm genuinely curious how it is possible that the AI is happy when you test it, but on Emperor the AI was not happy at all when I played.

Hell, I've turned divisors back to 1, made tech penalty reduced further to 50, and AI's still being unhappy. Not only the 33 cities continent-eating Songhai, but the smaller England was as well.

 

[tu_79]

I’m currently mid-move, so I won’t be doing any updates for the rest of the month. As I said, any concerns about unhappiness can be tweaked in the CityHappiness.sql file. Otherwise I don’t see any outstanding issues. Happiness was behaving fine for the AI, I’m surprised at the reports of early game problems.

G

After my initial struggling, with 7-8 cities in classical age, I didn't feel the unhappiness again. Currently entering industrial. My only unhappy city is one that I settled with a pioneer close to a cluster of city states. Went Progress-Artisty, so maybe that's why.

 

[Txurce]

I’m currently mid-move, so I won’t be doing any updates for the rest of the month. As I said, any concerns about unhappiness can be tweaked in the CityHappiness.sql file. Otherwise I don’t see any outstanding issues. Happiness was behaving fine for the AI, I’m surprised at the reports of early game problems.

G

Good luck putting the move in the rear-view mirror asap!

 

[Gazebo]

I'm surprised the no AI unhappiness happens in your tests when even on the previous, far more lenient version AI was constantly at -10 or -20% unhappy CS when fighting me. I'm not being angry or trying to attack you, but I'm genuinely curious how it is possible that the AI is happy when you test it, but on Emperor the AI was not happy at all when I played.

Hell, I've turned divisors back to 1, made tech penalty reduced further to 50, and AI's still being unhappy. Not only the 33 cities continent-eating Songhai, but the smaller England was as well.

And the England women and the England children as well!

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

And the England women and the England children as well!

Kislev.

 

[Hailstorm21]

I haven't had too many problems with happiness in the classical era on Emperor, but past few games I've been lucky and scouted 3 nat wonders and had fur monopoly. My problems have been with the Ais they really have been out to get me recently lol ( Zulu horsemen with +45%CS,early 2 front wars, huge defensive pacts..etc) They did have -10% from unhappiness the whole time with around 7 cities though. King here i come. I really want to see Le Minh play on standard speed Deity again. Rambling over

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Friendly reminder to always slaughter the English completely if you go warmongering, any mercy you display is a weakness that is ill-afforded - vassalisation is not an option. I've kept them as a vassal and I regret it. I've counted my Great Works after I saw a notice that "an unknown spy" took one, looked at the ones she has on display for trade, counted how many I should approximately have and she apparently stole 3 or 4 Great Works from me

 

[Txurce]

Friendly reminder to always slaughter the English completely if you go warmongering, any mercy you display is a weakness that is ill-afforded - vassalisation is not an option. I've kept them as a vassal and I regret it. I've counted my Great Works after I saw a notice that "an unknown spy" took one, looked at the ones she has on display for trade, counted how many I should approximately have and she apparently stole 3 or 4 Great Works from me

That's hilarious. I would've assumed that a vassalized civ can't hurt me by swiping tech. But no...

 

[tu_79]

I really want to see Le Minh play on standard speed Deity again.

I think he's moved over. At least, it has passed a long time since last we heard of him. Like many others.

To my knowledge, chicorbeef and CrazyG (our deity playthrough creators) don't do videos. The last one producing videos is 5BoringGames, playing updated versions, doing Let's play.
Also MinhLe didn't talk too much in his videos, did he?

Other mythical players I'm missing are Funak and ElliotS.
Gladly, there are many other that still hang around. Kudos to you:
@MoiMagnus, @CrazyG, @Stalker0, @Txurce, @Enrico Swagolo , @crdvis16 , @phantomaxl1207 ,@chicorbeef, @Bromar1, @gokudo, @Workerspam , @vyyt, @BiteInTheMark , @randomnub, @wobuffet , @Rekk , @Gothic_Empire , @civplayer33 ,@ryanmusante, @JamesNinelives (reddit lurker) and many others. This game is like it is because it cointains a little bit of our hearts, dripped during more than five years.

And to our coders (I'm sure I'm missing a few):
@Gazebo (lead developer), @ilteroi, @pineappledan , @Enginseer , @Infixo, @adan_eslavo ,@merill.

Sorry for getting sentimental, I was suffering from fever today

 

[Stalker0]

Other mythical players I'm missing are Funak and ElliotS.

I miss my old debates with Funak I feel like I've seen ElliotS pop up here and there. But you never know, I stopped playing and posting for a long while for a time and then found my way back, so you never know.;