New Version - October 17th (10-17)

[Gazebo]

G, I'm getting no production overflow at all. This is a problem as it encourages a silly degree of micromanagement

That’s strange, worked fine for me in testing. I’ll look. Will be an easy hotfix.

G

 

[Necamijat]

Overflow cannot go above your city's per-turn yield value for any given item

• So you cannot overflow more production than you can produce in a city

Does this mean settling on forests turn one or chopping gives you 1 turn of production in total, or is that not affected?
If so, why not get the production, but just spend the overflow at a rate equal to how much production your city produces per turn?

 

[ElliotS]

• Growth and overflow production limitations
  • Investments cannot be made if they would bring the total production stored above the % reduction of the investment
  • So...50% for buildings, 25% for for wonders, extra from investment bonuses (Babylon, Industry)
• Overflow cannot go above your city's per-turn yield value for any given item
  • So you cannot overflow more production than you can produce in a city
  • This limits the overflow bonus in all situations to 1 turn of a yield's value - should help with compounding power situations in the DLL

RIP overflow gimmicks. Using a GE and then investing to get hundreds of overflow production early was good while it lasted.

• Brought culture/science scalers down a bit:
  • Culture:
    • Duel - 14%
    • Tiny - 12%
    • Small - 10%
    • Standard - 8%
    • Large - 6%
    • Huge - 4%

• • Science:
    • Duel - 14%
    • Tiny - 12%
    • Small - 10%
    • Standard - 8%
    • Large - 6%
    • Huge - 4%

I think this is a step in the right direction, but I'd much rather see it be "Science and Culture scalers are now 6% per city on all map sizes." because this makes bigger maps a double buff to wide and smaller maps a double buff to tall.

• Puppet unhappiness yield threshold now -25% (was -50%)
• Puppet Yield modifiers changed:
  • Culture/Science/Tourism now -50% (was -40%)
  • Gold/Food/Production now -25% (was 0%)
  • City AI is good enough that puppets were essentially becoming free yield generators, especially base yields. These changes make puppets temporarily useful, but long-term a net drain on your economy.

Now I think there's an overall good balance between Raze/Puppet/Annex. Really bad cities won't still be worthwhile puppets.

Flat yield monopolies adjusted - faith/culture/science now +1; food/production now +2; gold now +3

• These monopolies can really swing the early game, especially faith/culture/science. Retuning this to make them less impactful overall.

This is the only change I outright dislike. I agree with CrazyG here. The problem is that the best monopolies were on the best and easiest to connect resources. Making chopping earlier and maybe swapping some bonuses would be better than making most of the monopolies feel unfun or unimpactful.

 

[ashendashin]

Yeah everything looks great besides the monopoly nerfs. If early yields makes them too strong then just give em something else. I thought early swings was their whole point, since the yields are relatively low later on.

 

[Gazebo]

RIP overflow gimmicks. Using a GE and then investing to get hundreds of overflow production early was good while it lasted.
I think this is a step in the right direction, but I'd much rather see it be "Science and Culture scalers are now 6% per city on all map sizes." because this makes bigger maps a double buff to wide and smaller maps a double buff to tall.

Now I think there's an overall good balance between Raze/Puppet/Annex. Really bad cities won't still be worthwhile puppets.


This is the only change I outright dislike. I agree with CrazyG here. The problem is that the best monopolies were on the best and easiest to connect resources. Making chopping earlier and maybe swapping some bonuses would be better than making most of the monopolies feel unfun or unimpactful.

Flat scalers for all maps are a bad idea for numerous reasons, most notably that the number of cities each player controls varies quite a bit between them.

The change to the flat monopolies was a stopgap while we look at shifting the more powerful monopoly bonuses to the harder-to-get and later-buffed resources. I didn't have time to make quite such a balance pass and, frankly, I'm going to lean on all of you for how to reshape those bonuses.

G

 

[infidel88]

Again, what I was suggesting in other topic, add monopoly yields at certain point (if that's possible). Like at Theology, Banking, Architecture to Lapis Lazuli or to Tobacoo at Industrialization/Astronomy. This is debatable, but adds historical flavor and doesnt make monopolies strong from the start. This makes sense, as most luxuries weren't luxuries until they became global (cocoa, all spices). After all it's not a big profit from monopoly if you have plenty of certain resource, but noone wants it from you.

This can be either to monopolies or for resources in general.

 

[Gazebo]

Again, what I was suggesting in other topic, add monopoly yields at certain point (if that's possible). Like at Theology, Banking, Architecture to Lapis Lazuli or to Tobacoo at Industrialization/Astronomy. This is debatable, but adds historical flavor and doesnt make monopolies strong from the start. This makes sense, as most luxuries weren't luxuries until they became global (cocoa, all spices). After all it's not a big profit from monopoly if you have plenty of certain resource, but noone wants it from you.

This can be either to monopolies or for resources in general.

That's not going to happen, too much work.

G

 

[Txurce]

The change to the flat monopolies was a stopgap while we look at shifting the more powerful monopoly bonuses to the harder-to-get and later-buffed resources. I didn't have time to make quite such a balance pass and, frankly, I'm going to lean on all of you for how to reshape those bonuses.

G

Sounds like this requires its own thread.

 

[Patee]

0 overflow is a bug to be hotfixed or just other user problem? (About to start new game and IDK should i wait )

 

[Moi Magnus]

Does this mean settling on forests turn one or chopping gives you 1 turn of production in total, or is that not affected?
If so, why not get the production, but just spend the overflow at a rate equal to how much production your city produces per turn?

Not affected. At least not in classic case :

Example :
You are building a castle. Your city produce 10 per turn. You shop a forest for 30 production.

Situation 1 :
You needed 60 to finish the castle. As before, the next turn, you need 20 (=60-10-30) to finish the castle.

Situation 2 :
You needed 35 to finish the castle. As before, the next turn, the castle is finished and you have 5 prod of overflow (PS: a bug might reduce it to 0, but it is a bug)

Situation 3 :
You needed 15 to finish the castle. The next turn, the castle is finished. But the overflow is capped to your production, so you only have 10 prod of overflow and 5 prod are lost.

Situation 4 :
You needed 1 to finish the castle. The next turn, the castle is finished. But the overflow is capped to your production, so you only have 10 prod of overflow and 29 prod are lost. This situation is particuliarly stupid.

=> This change lead to a lot more of micro-managment in order to not stupidly lose some production. I am particuliarly thinking about :
Unexpected instant science -> new tech -> new era -> production yields from Way of Transcendance wasted if you didn't already have a wonder in queue.
=> A bad change for most player.

However, the good part of it is that all the exploit based on overflows (some of them allowing you to rush wonders in few turns without expanding a great engineer) are no longer possible.

 

[tu_79]

Sounds like this requires its own thread.

Done.

 

[Gav92]

Hello, new to the forums and to this mod in particular. I've got a question. Do I need to download the previous 9th Oct patch prior to this patch or?

 

[Necamijat]

Hello, new to the forums and to this mod in particular. I've got a question. Do I need to download the previous 9th Oct patch prior to this patch or?

You shouldn't need to. Each savegame incompatible patch is usually standalone.
If you go to the stickied post "How to Install" the installer there should be the most recent version.

 

[Mad Madigan]

Looking at a table of all the resources and monopoly bonuses as they currently sit, does it not make sense to move all of the (+%) monopoly bonuses to resources that are harder to improve (quarries and plantations) and move the (+Yield) bonuses to mines and camps? So, for example, swapping the monopoly bonuses of Citrus and Salt would make Salt an overall weaker resource that makes sense given how easy it is to "get online" as compared to Citrus. They're both "food-centric" luxuries historically and mechanically, but currently Salt is the far superior lux to control. Citrus also suffers from a relatively late enhancer building (Gardens) and lower yields than other comparable plantation lux's like Cocoa. So looking back to the table of luxury yields, Citrus only offers 2 Food and 1 Gold (and then another Food/Gold with a Garden), and given that not all yields are equally valuable, it could really stand to gain +1 of something (likely Food?) either unimproved or improved.

The same can be said for Coffee, Sugar, Spices, and Tea (all plantation resources that only offer some combination of Food/Gold/Production and 3 total yields once improved).

 

[tu_79]

Looking at a table of all the resources and monopoly bonuses as they currently sit, does it not make sense to move all of the (+%) monopoly bonuses to resources that are harder to improve (quarries and plantations) and move the (+Yield) bonuses to mines and camps? So, for example, swapping the monopoly bonuses of Citrus and Salt would make Salt an overall weaker resource that makes sense given how easy it is to "get online" as compared to Citrus. They're both "food-centric" luxuries historically and mechanically, but currently Salt is the far superior lux to control. Citrus also suffers from a relatively late enhancer building (Gardens) and lower yields than other comparable plantation lux's like Cocoa. So looking back to the table of luxury yields, Citrus only offers 2 Food and 1 Gold (and then another Food/Gold with a Garden), and given that not all yields are equally valuable, it could really stand to gain +1 of something (likely Food?) either unimproved or improved.

The same can be said for Coffee, Sugar, Spices, and Tea (all plantation resources that only offer some combination of Food/Gold/Production and 3 total yields once improved).

I've made a small analysis too. Check it in the post, please.

 

[Rafs]

Is the discount on organized religion not working for anyone else?

 

[Padre19]

The game always crashes on the 2nd turn.

Same.

 

[Giza]

Increased bonuses from influence at all levels

• Growth bonus now 40/30/20/10/5 (was 15/12/9/6/3)
• Gold bonus now 15/12/8/6/3 (was 10/8/6/4/2)
• Science bonus now 10/8/6/4/2 (Was 5/4/3/2/1)

Sorry, what influence? Tourism? Is that trade route yield? Maybe not because international trade route give no growth bonus.

Is this influence from Tourism ?

 

[bigcat88]

Same.

I have the same issue. CTD after first turn. Total we are 3 ppl that got this. But I only on some settings in advanced setup. Playing with no advanced menu or resetting advanced menu panels to default - works fine. Currently have no time to found where is the problem.
Better to create post on GitHub and discuss a problem there.

 

[saamohod]

>Fixed Great People instant yields being too low for Great Writer and Scientist

I thought I was the only one who thinks those yields are a bit low.