new wonder,terrorist headquarters..

[Manny Kant]

First, let me say I'm for wonders. The more the better. I just don't see why, outside of very-Civ specific Conquests games one would want a Terrorist training HQ. As for the idea that flying valuable airplanes into valuable buildings and ending thousands of lives is something we should be laughing about ...I don't think so. This isn't an instance of partisans using a sacred bit of ancient history as a hideout and blowing it up (accidentally) with their own munitions...it is mass murder. But that is really a splash issue. I would want a much better idea of what this is supposed to do in game mechanics before I would want to use it. :thumbdown
Sorry.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Right, and then even more terrorists were made, in linear reaction to the bombings, just like the bombings were merely a linear reaction to terrorism. At least we arent in war with some alien terrorist planet, imagine them sending suicide-comets against earth

Your naivetae is quite scary. You need to wake up and see reality. Most people want peace in this world, but not the expense of getting us all killed. So what if more terrorists appear because of our retalition? They will get whats coming to them as well. You say we are creating terrorists? In a recent article in Newsweek magazine, it stated that Terrorists WERE not created by being poor, but that most of them were either middle-class or rich. They are driven by an Idealogy, not economics. And that idealogy chants "Death to America". Not because of our relatation, because they hated us before that, we didn't create the Terrorists, they created themselves.

 

[Kyriakos]

Your naivetae is quite scary. You need to wake up and see reality. Most people want peace in this world, but not the expense of getting us all killed. So what if more terrorists appear because of our retalition? They will get whats coming to them as well. You say we are creating terrorists? In a recent article in Newsweek magazine, it stated that Terrorists WERE not created by being poor, but that most of them were either middle-class or rich. They are driven by an Idealogy, not economics. And that idealogy chants "Death to America". Not because of our relatation, because they hated us before that, we didn't create the Terrorists, they created themselves.

Wow, there must be really a lot of smug, posh, middle-class kids in pakistan, iraq, afganistan and palestine. Need i really say more? Let alone the fact that this is a game forum, and not a field for you to parade your donkey attitude.

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Wow, there must be really a lot of smug, posh, middle-class kids in pakistan, iraq, afganistan and palestine. Need i really say more? Let alone the fact that this is a game forum, and not a field for you to parade your donkey attitude.

Actually, since I've been there, I'll aggree with Sword of Geddon. Most of the Big-time terrorists who are driving the masses are filthy rich (the bin Ladin family is one of the richest in the world, and they dominate the construction and other industries throughout the Mid-East), and they just use the poor, ignorant people in these countires as their cannon fodder. They really don't give a good crap about the toxic ideology they spew out on a daily basis. The only thing they want is world domination, and to enslave the entire planet to their wills. All it really comes down to is rich fat-cats on all sides (US, Europe, Mid-East, etc) using the poor as pawns in their global power-game, and I'm getting tired of all of it. That's all I'll say on this issue.

As for the actual Training camp Graphics/game implementation: I say have it make a Guerilla or Muhadeen infantry every 5 turns (preferrably guerilla, since that would make it more of a universal thing). Of course, you'd have to give the cruise missile an increased bombardment and "precision bombing," so that you can blitz the training camps Oh, and lose the bin Ladin splash. Either (a) do a more centered version of the alternate splash, (b) create a terrorist collage (so that bin Ladin isn't hogging all the "glory") that includes the likes of Fidel Castro, Yassir Arafat, etc, or (c) a splash of a generic "mad bomber" or terrorist dude (preferrably one that doesn't make the terrorit's nationality readily appearant).

Edited to remove inflammable content

 

[Juka The Dumb]

if anyone wants to make an alternative splash they're welcome to post it here,i dont feel like working in photoshop right now.
and sorry hikaro but i dont see why should i remove the laden splash,he is the most important terrorist(maybe of all time).and as i said you can edit my second splash and post it,if you wanna..

ps:castro and arafat are not terrorists.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Yeah they were. Arafat started the entire movement to attack and kill Israelis. He was a Terrorist and a Murderer, and instead of having a flag drapped over his coffin, he should have been taken to a junkyard and dumped in with the rest of the trash.

 

[Kyriakos]

My view is that, in its basis, terrorism isnt formed for vastly different reasons than street gangs are formed. For example most (not that i am an expert on this issue, and i could very well be wrong) street gangs in the usa seem to be formed by either black people, or hispanic, and this is because they feel that they are getting a rotten deal anyway so what the hell they may as well try to get by selling drugs or being petty thugs. In the case of the middle east terrorism one has to make a distinction between palestinian terrorism (and lately also iraqi, it would seem), and the rest of the arab terrorism, since the first ones are acts of brutal violence commited against regimes that do not allow them to be free (this doesnt mean ofcourse that if they were free they would instantly have a democracy, they would probably have some sort of islamic state). The second (rest of the arabs) could be likened to the street gangs in the us, although ofcourse it is on a global scale.
ps: you may (and ofcourse be right about it) scoff the arabs who idealise bin laden, but this doesnt mean that bush is much of a statesman. Future generations will laugh at a leader who thinks that he speaks with god. Also i doubt that the usa is protecting anyone other than its interests, not even the interests of the american people probably, otherwise you wouldnt have had such a bi-polar climate after the elections. Since the major powers all have nuclear weapons it is simply impossible that there will ever be a major war, like ww1 or ww2, so there is no real threat for international wars. The usa's choice to bomb countries left and right is just its own policy, and no need dictated it, unless you believe in "humanitarian bombs".

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Bush isn't the only one that speaks with God. As I've said on the other forum, anyone who truly knows Christ hears his voice.

There is a extreme difference between the European Elite Secular Humanisism and Evangelical Christianity, which the United States was largely founded upon.

As Newt Ginrich put it on Oreilly yesterday, the United States is based a Covenant, while European Countries are largely based on a Contract.

"The Government of the United States was intended for a Religious people, it is wholely inadaquite for any other" -James Madison

 

[Juka The Dumb]

Bush isn't the only one that speaks with God. As I've said on the other forum, anyone who truly knows Christ hears his voice.

wow,sword of geddon pm me your photo,maybe i'll put you in the splash...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Why? What does speaking with God have to do with Terrorism? Hmmm? Answer me that now. And you can't say that "Its sounds like Bin Laden", because alot of what the Dala Llama says is similiar as well(Divine Enlightenment), but nobody accuses him of being a Terrorist

 

[Juka The Dumb]

no sog,you can speak with the tooth fairy as far as i'm concerned.
i was just kidding..

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Your hopeless....

 

[Kyriakos]

Sword of Geddon, i do not mean to be negative, much less to antagonise, but if you arent in your late teens, or even early twenties, yet you are so involved in christianity, i would really suggest that you look a bit more deeply into
a) why you feel that christianity is so important to you
b) what are your emotions, what purpose does your undestanding of god serve in the dynamics of your own self, character, psyche etc.

Af for the voice of god being heard, you know there were/are people who heard voices, they didnt ofcourse hear any other entity, but suffered from schizophrenia. I hope/guess though that you didnt mean that kind of hearing,

Kyriakos

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Diffinitely not schizophrenia, trust me. I'm glad you have benign intentions. I'm very on-guard lately though, because there are alot of people who aren't nearly as nice as you are varwnos.

I'm only 21, I've reached where I am now after a long, emotion-filled journey. When I was 13 or so, I had serious doubts that there was a God, much less an all-loving compassionate creator of the universe. I was terrified of death. When I was 15, I went to a Christian Convention event for youth called "Acquire the Fire", where I had a very emotional expierence, and for the first time in my life, I seriously preyed and called out to God. A few days later, I had alot on my mind one night, and I couldn't sleep. I was thinking to myself about what happened and for some reason, I got into a conversation with myself, but unlike usual, the one arguement wasn't me, because it forced me to consider things I never had, and reveiled things about me that I never knew, but I knew they were true. I said "I don't know if I'm ready for that kind of life"(Religious-ness), and the voice(which I knew at that moment wasn't me at all, but something I read about in the Bible called the Holy Sprit) said "Whenever your ready". At that same moment, I could feel a powerful pressence in the room. I can't explain it totally, but it felt like peace itself. I felt like a new person afterwards. Alot of my pre-conceptions, beliefs, attitudes and even thoughts were reveiled to be wrong.

I regret it, but I haven't gone to church in months. But its more important to LIVE Church everyday, rather than once a week.

 

[Kyriakos]

Sword of Geddon, in reality you have just - due to isolation i guess, and a tough childhood- sunk inside your own subconscious at that time. This happens to A LOT of people, provided that they are somewhat sensitive, and isolated. It doesnt have anything to do with a god, although, ofcourse, it can seem to the individual that it absolutely does. The "holly spirit" was you, seperating yourself from the situation, so as to think even in a more distanced way. All such experiences are psychological, a "religious" experience is just a confused idea of what happened. Many writers of past centuries used to go in a sort of trance when writing, ie just were sinking into their subconscious. But it is a dangerous road, and it becomes even more dangerous if you think that you are getting closer to a god, because then you will begin to sink more and more inside yourself, and that can even lead to madness. I would therefore, very seriously, suggest that you talk to some psychologist about that. Talking to psychologists isnt something to be ashamed of, only illiterate people regard it as such,

in earnest,

Kyriakos

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Well, It wasn't my subconsious, trust me. It has told me things I didn't know at the time, which I later found to be true. It speaks to me in other ways then words, most of the time it isn't words, but actions and events in my life. But you are correct that there are counterfeits. The difference is that the Holy Sprit will often tell me what I don't want to hear. Whether I listin to it or not is up to me, but in the past only bad things happened to me when I didn't.

 

[Plotinus]

Now I can't answer for Sword of Geddon, and I know that I disagree with pretty much everything he says, at least in Off-Topic, as he will no doubt testify, but I do think he's a pretty reasonable character and the best kind of evangelical Christian who does at least seem to think about what he believes. Since I don't believe in God I must agree with varwnos that what he experienced that night didn't come from outside him, but it hardly follows that insanity must be the result. Jerome didn't go mad after his dream about God and Cicero, and neither did Augustine in the Milanese garden, Luther in his tower, Wesley listening to Romans being expounded... you get the idea. Amazingly, it is possible to be religious and fairly normal; it's even possible to be a conservative evangelical and fairly normal, although I'll admit that that is harder.

As to Bush, I think the point is not that he claims to hear God - which, as SoG rightly says, is hardly uncommon among even sane religious people - but that he seems to think he speaks for God. Now, perhaps the famous comment by Abbas that Bush said he invaded Iraq because God told him to was a misquote, so we will give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. But Bush has said quite enough in his public speeches about God to leave us in no doubt about his views, and they're worrying whether you believe in God or not, and whether you support Bush or not (bearing in mind that most Christians outside the US are probably more left-wing than right-wing). I don't believe that democracy is a gift of God to humanity, and I don't believe that the United States has a divine charge to bring it to the rest of the world, and I wouldn't believe those things even if I believed in God, or even if I thought democracy was an intrinsically good thing. History shows that one should be very wary, at the very least, of politicians who claim some kind of divine sanction.

Now that's just my thoughts and I don't want to turn what is already a massively OT and contentious thread further OT when we already have a splendid OT section specifically for this kind of spleen-venting. I think any more discussion that's not about *this graphic* should go right there!

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Sometimes these topics pop up when you least expect them to. Believe me Plotinus, it means alot to me to hear you say that.

 

[Plotinus]

Just saying it how I think it is, SoG. You're right that many people respond to comments like yours in a less than benign fashion, so I thought I'd do my best to mitigate them a bit.

 

[aracuan]

Your naivetae is quite scary. You need to wake up and see reality. Most people want peace in this world, but not the expense of getting us all killed. So what if more terrorists appear because of our retalition? They will get whats coming to them as well. You say we are creating terrorists? In a recent article in Newsweek magazine, it stated that Terrorists WERE not created by being poor, but that most of them were either middle-class or rich. They are driven by an Idealogy, not economics. And that idealogy chants "Death to America". Not because of our relatation, because they hated us before that, we didn't create the Terrorists, they created themselves.

ARE U SERIOUS MAN?U FORGOT WHO WIPED OUT THE RED RACE(INDIANS) FROM YOUR LANDS??????????
HAVE U FORGET THE BOMBINGS ON SERBS?????????
DO U HAVE IDEA HOW MANY INNOCENT PLEOPLE DIED??????????????
WHY BOMBING IRAQ TWICE??????????????
PROFITS,U LL SAY...
WHY 3 BILLION PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE HATING U "PROUD"AMERICANS??????????????
WHY U INTERFEAR IN THE INTERNAL POLITICS OF OTHER COUNTRIES??????????????????
WHAT HAPPENED IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER I DIDNT LIKE CAUSE INNOCENT LIVES WERE LOST.
BUT...
HOW MANY INNOCENT LIVES OF NON COMBAT POPULATION WERE LOST BY BOMBING RAIDS AGAINST "MILITARY TARGETS"??????????
IN THE LAST IRAQ WORLD,U KNOW THAT AMERICAN TANKS ATTACK THE HOTEL IN WHICH JOURNALISTS WERE STAYING SO IN THAT WAY TO FORCE THEM LEAVE FROM IRAQ,TO PREVENT THEM SHOW IN WHOLE WORLD THAT US MISSILES HAVE THEIR TARGETS PUBLIC MARKETS???????!!!!!
FOR ALL THESE ABOVE I LIKE WHAT WAS HAPPENED IN WORLD TRADE CENTER.