New Wonders!

[Tyfighter77]

Has anybody considered renaming Wonders to something else (as was done with culture bomb > great work)? The term Wonder is fine if you're talking about the Sphinx. But Wall Street? And then when you get into things like the Red Cross you can see where we really leave the Wonder title behind.

It would be great if the different types of wonders could have their own categories in-game, but that's maybe not possible or too difficult.

In lieu of that, maybe someone can think up a more inclusive term instead of Wonders.

 

[EmperorFool]

How about a national wonder for Aqueducts that provides a boost to food savings when growing to its city? We could make it general or pick one of the many ancient aqueducts from around the world.

 

[Carnid]

Not sure what would be applicable to this, but there have been a few posts about wanting another spy early on. How about some National(or world) Wonder that rewards a spy, if it's possible.

There's already a National Wonder granting a new spy. It also instantly promotes your currently active spies and reduces the rate at which other spies can steal your technology in your city by another 15%. Forgot the name, but you need a Police Station in all cities before building it.

 

[Tarquelne]

There's already a National Wonder granting a new spy. It also instantly promotes your currently active spies and reduces the rate at which other spies can steal your technology in your city by another 15%.

I'd love to see a Wonder that gives a civ a significant spying advantage. One possibility is having the National Wonder merely give an extra spy, while the Wonder does everything the National Wonder now does.

Another idea: Spy-Wonder that sets a minimum experience level for your spies.

"The KGB"?

 

[Thalassicus]

Adding +1 spy to the Great Wall would make that more useful, and fit the theme of a defensive player focusing on espionage. It doesn't really fit historically, though. Perhaps +1 spy from the Himeji Castle?

 

[sukritact]

Adding +1 spy to the Great Wall would make that more useful, and fit the theme of a defensive player focusing on espionage. It doesn't really fit historically, though. Perhaps +1 spy from the Himeji Castle?

It's a bit of a stretch historically (but that holds true for a good number of wonders; as far as I know the Porcelain Tower has nothing to do with science), but the great wall would be a much better choice, since it was weakened by the buffing of navies, it would also be a good way to make up for the fact that it obsoletes (Can it keep the spy after that?)

 

[mitsho]

What would happen if you get a spy in the ancient era? Would everybody else also get one that early? Or would it otherwise be overpowered as the system is specifically set-up to give everyone a spy when the first civ enters the Renaissance? Otherwise, I would suggest putting that effect with the Oracle and give it a lasting effect (=worth to conquer). It also would be historical as the Oracle was a place where information from all over the known world was gathered... The Great Wall already has a very specific function, I wouldn't change that probably. Other options I can think of is the Terracotta Army (culture + spy, but historical reasoning?) or the

Pergamon Altar

Historical Importance: Wonderful Work of Art, Tourist Attraction even in the antiquity.
Effects: +1 on luxury ressources, 1 Free Spy

(sorry, I don't find the existing mod right now)

Going back to the Industrial and Later eras which need more wonders, with Railway I could think of the

Trans-Siberian Railway
Historical Significance: Large Railroad projects were common in the 19th century and while we often hear about Americas Race to reach the Pacific Ocean, I think we already have a few American wonders and the Trans-Siberian Railway is longer, still around and still today a popular travel option for backpackers and adventurers
Gameplay Effect: Lower maintenance cost on Railroads, maybe movement points on railroads.

And the

Gotthard Rail Tunnel

Historical Signifiance: Like the Suez or the Panama Canal, railway projects were mega-projects involving a great deal of actors from various nations. The Gotthard is the biggest pass between North and Southern Europe and the opening of the railroad tunnel accelerated travelling alot. Suddenly, Rome could be reached quite easily from the Rhine Valley and vice versa. The building was done in record time, cost many workers their life, the first architect died due to heart attack in the tunnel and the army even had to put down a strike.
Game Effect: Requires mountain nearby, Turns that tile into a supertile, giving +8 , +8 and +8 , and lessens movement costs on railroads.

A similar world wonder f.e. could be the Channel Tunell.

A modern not-in-Europe wonder could be the

Maracanã Stadium

Historical Significance: It was the biggest stadium in the world, near up to 200'000 places, nowadays, for security reasons, other's are bigger, but the biggest is in North Korea (according to wiki) and I'm not sure what their stance on security is. But I do think Stadiums are the biggest buildings in the modern world, so I do think one can be a world wonder. Also, that would add another wonder in South America (it's located in Rio).
Gameplay Effect: +1 and +5 per stadium and colloseum.

Before I do another batch (not today), what do you think about a wonder that doubles the effect of a pantheon? Would that be too powerful? (probably).

 

[Lord Byte]

Not sure what would be applicable to this, but there have been a few posts about wanting another spy early on. How about some National(or world) Wonder that rewards a spy, if it's possible.

The problem with that is that if you create such a wonder you have an extreme lead over any opponents. Always keep in mind the balance.

 

[Gamerwiz]

Adding +1 spy to the Great Wall would make that more useful, and fit the theme of a defensive player focusing on espionage. It doesn't really fit historically, though. Perhaps +1 spy from the Himeji Castle?

Wouldn't The Kremlin be a better choice for providing an espionage bonus? I was kind of surprised they didn't change it for Gods & Kings.

 

[GenjiKhan]

Adding +1 spy to the Great Wall would make that more useful, and fit the theme of a defensive player focusing on espionage. It doesn't really fit historically, though. Perhaps +1 spy from the Himeji Castle?

What about making the Great Wall gives +1 spy when the player researchs Dynamite? With that,it seems a reasonable form to compensate the player that invested in this wonder and got punished for researching this technology .

I'm quite impressed that no one mentioned "The Motherland Calls",that can be a nice choice of World wonder on Atomic era,that have so few wonders . Its construction project is unique and it's a non-religious statue,which isn't something common for a world wonder of that type . One possible gameplay bonus that this world wonder can give is +2 /per turn for each city with a garrison .

two things:
There's already a mod for The Motherland Calls, so you could use that as a base.

I don't like ideas that request the player to take a very specific way,while penalizing those who haven't(but it's just my personal opinion) .

[*]If it's not a religious statue, why does it give faith?

Mainly because this statue represents the strenght of Red Army at defending Stanligrad from Nazis . The battle scenario to defend Stalingrad was one of the most bloodly battle scenarios that humanity has ever seen(with more than 2 million of people killed) . The statue would represent the belief that the Red Army can protect the city is defending,no matter how powerful/fearful is the invasor . This belief could be interpreted as +3 per garrisoned city .

 

[sukritact]

What about making the Great Wall gives +1 spy when the player researchs Dynamite? With that,it seems a reasonable form to compensate the player that invested in this wonder and got punished for researching this technology .

That's an excellent idea! It also keeps it from giving a spy too early.

I don't like ideas that request the player to take a very specific way,while penalizing those who haven't(but it's just my personal opinion) .

You misunderstand me, I meant just as a base for the art and all so we wouldn't have to make new icons and all that. the effect could still be totally different. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough...

Mainly because this statue represents the strenght of Red Army at defending Stanligrad from Nazis . The battle scenario to defend Stalingrad was one of the most bloodly battle scenarios that humanity has ever seen(with more than 2 million of people killed) . The statue would represent the belief that the Red Army can protect the city is defending,no matter how powerful/fearful is the invasor . This belief could be interpreted as +3 per garrisoned city .

Not sure this is a good idea. Faith in the game represents religious faith. In any case, it comes so late in game that faith would be more or less useless by then. How about a +30% bonus to combat strength when fighting near a garrisoned city.

 

[mitsho]

Well the Faith would mainly be used at that time to buy Great Persons from whatever Social Policy Tree is open. I do think that's quite a good indirect buff to Great Persons that's not available yet. I guess one could even enlarge the amount of faith a bit, as it will take quite a few to get Great People. Of course the wonder would also be good for religious empires which might be unintended.

Combining it with the Combat Strength near garrisoned city (or capital a la Ethiopian UU?) is also an option, but then there's the question of balancing. But it's definately a wonder woth including

 

[GenjiKhan]

You misunderstand me, I meant just as a base for the art and all so we wouldn't have to make new icons and all that. the effect could still be totally different. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough...

I see . I like the artwork you suggested for this wonder .

Not sure this is a good idea. Faith in the game represents religious faith. In any case, it comes so late in game that faith would be more or less useless by then. How about a +30% bonus to combat strength when fighting near a garrisoned city.

Modern warfare,with nuclear weapons and units with a very high mobility would make this bonus not so useful and powerful,if compared to other wonders from this era .

 

[Fusilliban]

I've thought, for a long time now, that Wikipedia is a genuine Wonder of the World.

I'm not sure what it should do mechanically, or even if it's a useful addition to the game, but I think it's a more significant achievement-of-humanity than any of (for example):

Big Ben, CN Tower, Kremlin, Pentagon, Statue of Liberty, Sydney Opera House

 

[Tarquelne]

I've thought, for a long time now, that Wikipedia is a genuine Wonder of the World.

I'm not sure what it should do mechanically,

+30% research, but only for techs all players already have.

but I think it's a more significant achievement-of-humanity than any of (for example):

What!?

Big Ben,

It allowed the British Empire to work out it's penis-envy peacefully.

CN Tower

Listed because of the "dancing bear" effect: It's not that the bear is a good dancer, but that it dances at all is amazing. (It's in Canada.)

Kremlin,

Previously people had thought the maximum onion-top density was only about 1/2 what the Kremlin demonstrates. It was a big deal in theoretical architecture.

Pentagon,

Generating all those graceless, soulless designations ("M1A1") for such cool stuff takes far more effort than you seem willing to credit.

Statue of Liberty,

World's biggest bosom.

Sydney Opera House

It brought Culture to Australia!

 

[Gamerwiz]

If wikipedia was a wonder I think it should do something like boost science production based on the collective science production of all civs. Like +2% of universal science production. If that's possible. And obviously the numbers would have to be tested so that it's balanced, but that would make it reflect the actual thing and be useful.

 

[mitsho]

Catch-up Science wonders (cheaper research of techs that others already have) are strong, but they face a simple dilemma: You need to win the science race to be able to build the wonder, but then can let it slide since you get other techs easier...). Also there's enough drive towards a scientific victory already, so I'm not sure it's a viable idea for a wonder. There's no gameplay need.

Now you could argue it's a cultural achievement and make it a huge culture wonder, either pushing you the rest towards cultural victory or allowing you to pick a few more of those social policies propelling you to your chosen victory. Something like +1 per population empire wide OR +5 per city depending on wether we want to make the wonder optimal for wide or tall empires. Now, which tech would you place it? One of the last I guess? (a commerce effect could be debated, but I guess there are a lot of other candidates for that role).

Thinking from in the game, what about a few wonders helping towards a Diplomatic Victory? F.e. one that guarantees that city states following your religion will vote for you (good also for denying victory), here the Abraj al Bait Complex in Mecca would fit. There's a mod on it also already.

Or one that increases chances for coups?

 

[Gamerwiz]

Or one that increases chances for coups?

The CIA?

 

[Moriboe]

Everything below is out there somewhere already:

I'm with sukritact on the Nazca Lines (second post). I implemented a (one-time) "culture per soldier in service" effect for the Terracotta Army, which I was pretty happy about

And if we're changing stuff, I'd like to see the Large Hadron Collider, which would take the effect of Hubble. Satellites can be beelined, and thus Hubble could be used as catch-up wonder: have it triple science from research agreements (everything for this is already available). Anything that increases victory paths is great in my book (edit: though it would become an obvious choice due to its position after Rocketry, hmm). The International Space Station would be a better fit, but Hubble already takes its position.

Lastly I'd like to see a dam. Plenty of choices so as to pick the one that fits the best in the tech tree. Regular hydro plants could use a "nearby mountain" requirement imho.

Runners up: Leshan Giant Buddha (river commerce, faith), the Apostolic Palace (diplomacy, faith) and the Sputnik & Apollo programs (space, science, diplomacy). The latter shouldn't be a national project (project longshot could replace it)!

 

[Moriboe]

My first (accidental) double post ever! Sorry.

The LHC needs more thought, that's all.