There's definitely a triage-like evaluation you're being asked to make. If an enemy is about to act and you can kill them to prevent that, it's a huge benefit. But if nothing you do will keep them from getting a turn (e.g., they have 6 hp and you do 3-4 damage), they're likely the lowest priority target because they won't get their second turn until after everyone else has had a first.
New XCOM game: XCOM Chimera Squad coming April 24
- Thread starter SupremacyKing2
- Start date
IMO - and with certain units, its usually best not to move. There isnt that far to go anyway. And most have a decent ability that can be used from where they begin and spam it every turn. Cherub can protect an ally. Terminal can heal. Blue blood can shoot twice. Claymore can throw a grenade. Verge can berserk one and stun another. Agents restricted in that matter are: Patch & godmother - although their abilities and/or dps far outweigh the others. There are other agents of course but i have not got them in my team.
Not sure on a tier list yet. Cherub seems really good IMO. Maybe even better than terminal. Heals are nice, but with cherub you can use your agents as a sort of mimic beacon and negate any damage. And thats so useful when paired with a DPS monster like godmother.
Not sure on a tier list yet. Cherub seems really good IMO. Maybe even better than terminal. Heals are nice, but with cherub you can use your agents as a sort of mimic beacon and negate any damage. And thats so useful when paired with a DPS monster like godmother.
SupremacyKing2
Deity
The turn coat grenade is super fun to use. If you find some enemies grouped close enough together, you can make them all go beserk at the same time. Then, watch them all start shooting at each other.
My other advice: don't underestimate breach mode. It can really change the dynamic of the rest of the mission sometimes making them easier, sometimes making them harder.
1) Use the breach items wisely to increase aim or increase crit. This can help you kill more enemies in the breach mode which will make the rest of the mission a bit easier.
2) The order that you place your units will be the same order that they will appear in the order queue. So placing them in an order that optimizes your strategy, is important. I sometimes put Verge first so that I can use his psi powers to make an enemy go berserk or stun an enemy first thing. Or I put Cherub first so I can get a kinetic shield up first before any enemy takes an action.
3) Lastly, look at the advantages and disadvantages of each entry point because they can also really help you or make things more difficult.
My other advice: don't underestimate breach mode. It can really change the dynamic of the rest of the mission sometimes making them easier, sometimes making them harder.
1) Use the breach items wisely to increase aim or increase crit. This can help you kill more enemies in the breach mode which will make the rest of the mission a bit easier.
2) The order that you place your units will be the same order that they will appear in the order queue. So placing them in an order that optimizes your strategy, is important. I sometimes put Verge first so that I can use his psi powers to make an enemy go berserk or stun an enemy first thing. Or I put Cherub first so I can get a kinetic shield up first before any enemy takes an action.
3) Lastly, look at the advantages and disadvantages of each entry point because they can also really help you or make things more difficult.
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PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube (retired)
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Maybe I am doing something wrong but some levels are just super mega difficult. Like how the hell am I supposed to beat a small room with 2 of those giant power armor dudes that die twice each and more warping in each turn?
SupremacyKing2
Deity
Yeah, some missions can be difficult. The key is using your units correctly. Try to maximize your abilities in the right sequence. For example, I like to put Cherub first in the breach since he will go first after the breach. I give Cherub the turn coat grenade. That way, my first unit that starts combat can use the turn coat grenade to make multiple enemies go berserk and I can give my most vulnerable unit a kinetic shield right out of the gate before the enemy has a chance to do anything. Hopefully, I've killed 2 enemies during the breach and the turn coat grenade causes an enemy to kill another enemy for me. It helps even the playing field a bit.
Like Supremacy says (and expressed in my rehashed very short format) - Spam your abilities. Use your consumables which are free (grenades - every unit should have 1 pretty much). And put your most damaging units in the breach point first (Claymore, Godmother, Axiom). That leaves your control units to go last (Verge, Torque, Terminal etc).
Im actually finding hard a bit too easy lol. Just about to kill off my second faction.
Im actually finding hard a bit too easy lol. Just about to kill off my second faction.
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube (retired)
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Er... I don't have nearly as many consumables or half the tech you are talking about and yet this is the capstone mission with like a named boss and everything. Did I maybe rush through these too quickly?
I actually think Terminal should be precisely second in Breach order. No sooner, no later. First in will be whatever hero you think can have the biggest immediate impact. Putting Terminal second means she can use her first action for Cooperation on that first hero, effectively giving them a second half-turn immediately after their first turn. If need be, you can follow this up with Team Up to give them another turn after Terminal finishes. Terminal can shoot (usually), Safeguard, Pin Down, whatever with her second action.
I also want to take a moment to sing the praises of Mach Weave. Amazingly powerful. I would say a better use of early credits than even grenades. Get four Mach Weaves ASAP, every agent should wear it all the time.
I also want to take a moment to sing the praises of Mach Weave. Amazingly powerful. I would say a better use of early credits than even grenades. Get four Mach Weaves ASAP, every agent should wear it all the time.
The drawback about mach weave is it has zero utility against any ability. Not that it matters too much really. You really want protection from enemy fire. And it has a 50% chance of turning a hit into a graze. That is right isnt it? A 50% chance (more if used on an agent like Torque who has innate dodge).
Thats not a bad shout on Terminal actually, might pinch that
. Ive been putting her last mainly for the heals. Cooperation is always useful. I was using it mainly on Claymore to get another grenade off.
Thats not a bad shout on Terminal actually, might pinch that
. Ive been putting her last mainly for the heals. Cooperation is always useful. I was using it mainly on Claymore to get another grenade off.I have had 2 losses so far in my game. The first was when a VIP got sniped in quick succession from half way across the map. Which was cheap IMO. And the second was equally cheap too. I evacced my squad and the 2 reinforcements that had just spawned in double shot Verge and killed him as my last squad member. With no ability to stabalise left mission was over and lost. I think this is probably the weakest part of the game for me. In previous XCOM games when you had to evac, it was no problem because you could get everyone out on the same turn. But it doesnt work when units take their turns in sequence. You are often running a risk that the last person standing might get tag teamed. I had a similar problem earlier in the campaign that almost went south. Blue blood got tongue pulled by a viper just before evac. On that occasion my only other squad member shot the viper, which then released blue blood, they then evacced, and if it was not for the relocation device blue blood was carrying i would not have made it to the evac zone. I just dont think its very well designed.
PPQ_Purple
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When do I get the cool toys in this game? Like are there any laser/plasma weapons or similar? Don't answer that. It's not a question because it'd be inviting spoilers. Just a rant.
SupremacyKing2
Deity
Yes there are plasma weapons. They are called "epic shotgun", "epic pistol", "epic assault rifle". You can get them in missions where you have to kill an arms dealer and them the weapons drop and you have to pick it up. Check the rewards on the mission and it will tell you.
You can also occasionally be offered the chance to buy an epic weapon in exchange for intel at the scavenger market. These are very good offers if you can afford them.
Things have gotten rather out of hand in my game recently, with all the buffs Blueblood has gotten stacked up.
Things have gotten rather out of hand in my game recently, with all the buffs Blueblood has gotten stacked up.
- Masterwork Pistols upgrade. Pistol shots do 5-6 damage base, 7-9 if he uses Deadeye.
- Special agent ability: Phase Lance. Damage to all enemies in a line.
- Senior Agent perk: Cascade Lance. Damage of Phase Lance is increased for each subsequent enemy struck.
- Max rank training: Free reloads at the start of the turn, do not cost an action.
- Max rank ability: Face Off. Once per mission, fire one shot each at all visible enemies, limited by ammo in gun. His pistol has a Superior Expanded Magazine bought from the scavenger market, so that's up to 8 enemies.
- Artful Fathom epic pistol passive perk: Shred. Shots remove 1 armor from target.
- Artful Fathom epic pistol ability: Lightning Hands. Once every three turns, can fire a free shot that does not use an action.
- Shock Grenade utility item. Once per mission, stun enemies in affected area. Bonus damage vs. mech.
- Terminal special agent rank: Cooperation. Once every three turns, pass one of her actions to a teammate to let them act again.
- Terminal utility item: Motile Inducer. Free action, once per mission give an ally two actions immediately.
- Generic ability: Team Up. Once per mission, move ally to the top of the priority queue.
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube (retired)
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So in other words there is no real cool weapon research. That makes me sad.
SupremacyKing2
Deity
Completed the Progeny investigation and the Grey Phoenix investigation. The starport mission was exciting and fun but I was never in any real danger. The references to Atlas make me think that there is a final boss mission against Atlas after you complete all 3 investigations.
Spoiler :
Well, I was having fun pushing along through the game and reached what I think was going to be the final mission (game text certainly seemed to indicate as much). Started the mission and got an immediate crash to desktop. Reloaded the save, started the mission again, another immediate crash to desktop.
I guess I'm stuck waiting for a patch to finish the game.
I guess I'm stuck waiting for a patch to finish the game.
Oh no. Thats a disaster. If you want you can give me your save and ill see if i can advance it on mine past the point it crashes then i can send it back to you?
Yeah i enjoyed the Grey Phoenix final battle. Apparently if you do that faction first a lot of people had a lot of difficulty on the final mission. I thought it was rather easy actually, although i did it 2nd. I found the Sectopod a bit of a pussy cat. Blue blood eviscerated it twice and patch finished it off.
That offer just helped so much. I saw it and figured "hey, I'll try passing him the save." So I started the game again, made the save, then figured "as long as I'm here, I'll try starting the mission myself one more time." And... it worked this time! Apparently restarting my computer in the interim, or maybe just random chance, was sufficient to fix it.
So... thank you again for the offer. Apparently I don't need that help any more though. And if anyone else runs into the same problem on that mission, keep trying.
I've now finished my first playthrough (Expert; will bump it up to Impossible next time around).
This game is flawed but amazing. Breach mode works really well. The significance of order in, different bonuses and penalties for entrances, prioritizing which enemies to focus in Breach based on overall importance, alert status, and distance... it still, at least to me, covers that pre-fight prep thinking you did in XCOM: EU and XCOM2, but just speeds it up and removes a lot of unnecessary problems. Individual turn order generally works well, although it can be really frustrating on evacuation stages with reinforcements popping into the middle of the queue. I think it would address a lot of the irritation here if they just tweaked map layout - put two high-cover hard points on every evacuation zone, so you could have two agents queued up ready to leave on a moment's notice but still providing safe covering fire for the other two as they pulled out.
The changes to HP and healing are also nice. In general, you assume you will take some damage almost every mission (whereas EU / WotC were mostly about lots of prep so you could alpha-strike a pod out of existence before it got a shot off), but it's not as punishing long-term to take that damage as long as you are keeping it within a reasonable level. The game could probably use a second hero with an allied heal ability though; Terminal able to heal every single turn, while other heroes can either heal only themselves or once a mission with medikits, isn't an ideal balance.
The story is... bland. Feels like a lot of missed potential there; one of the big benefits of these hero-characters was that it did give them more control over story and character development, but that seemed to be constrained pretty much to occasional reaction comments during missions and randomized banter between agents.
The strategy layer was fine at what it did, but simply didn't do very much. Limited tech tree, limited agent upgrade options, limited weapon variation, pretty straightforward and not terribly interesting mechanic for controlling anarchy. Nothing explicitly wrong with it, but it left me wishing there was more.
It's also really buggy. Really, really buggy. Two crashes to desktop trying to enter the final mission, getting "stuck" indefinitely on a loading screen once where I had to force-quit the program, one mission where it never actually proceeded to the next stage after the previous was clear and I had to reload, the enemy visibility preview graphic regularly going screwy, nanomedikits replicating in inventory, some unit model issues with units floating several feet off the ground, the wrong ability being used a few times (not the one I selected) or on the wrong hero (not the one I clicked on), some issues with transitions between agents, occasional teleporting enemies when they break in, a number of tooltip errors on gear in the armory, some camera glitches... the list goes on and on. And these are just the bugs I ran into; I've seen some comments from other people with bugs I never saw myself. I love the game anyways, and it was a very pleasant surprise to have it drop into my lap so suddenly, but it really feels like it could have used another month in QA before release.
Expert difficulty was a little lightweight for a long-time series veteran, except for a one escort-the-hostage mission fairly early on that destroyed me twice while I was learning how reinforcements worked. Definitely bumping it up to Impossible next time through.
Strategy thoughts...
Terminal is ridiculously good, best hero I tried. Definitely Pin Down at Field Agent rank, and I think Armor System is best at Senior Agent. Good use of cooperation is critical to getting the most out of her I think.
Blueblood is decent early game; I stuck some Tranq. rounds on him and found that helped a lot with making sure I got enough captures for intel in that early part of the game. By late game he becomes a monster. Definitely Warm Welcome at Field Agent; I'm honestly not sure which I'd prefer at Senior Agent. The better his gear, the better he does. I ran him with Dragon Rounds when I unlocked them, which was really strong, but it's possible that maybe Talon Rounds are mathematically better for him? Not sure.
I ran a lot of Verge. Crowdsource seems promising, but in practice if you don't have Collar he struggles to build up a significant bonus there. And he just doesn't have the necessary action points for Slam, while Network Healing can make him a respectable tank when fights go long. Overall he was... fine, I guess? He had good uses, but I think there are probably agents I didn't try this game that are better. Berserking enemies is also weird behavior; usually they shoot each other (even if one of my agents is closer), but sometimes I've seen them go after civilians or even just move without shooting. I wish it was more intuitive understanding how that worked. Puppeteer is a great once-per-mission ability at max rank, one of the best ones agents get.
Godmother was another one I used a fair amount and found bland. I think you want either two Shotgun heroes in your squad or none - if you're gonna run a Shotgun hero, you're gonna want shotgun weapon upgrades. But if you're getting those upgrades, the other shotgun heroes also become more attractive. I went with Last Stand with her, and then... she never actually activated that ability all game. Flush might have been more useful, although I guess the peace of mind from Last Stand is something. It also might be more useful on Impossible. I also went with Close Combat Specialist, and think I'd have preferred Untouchable.
Zephyr is a really good early- and mid-game agent. Definitely Pressure Point and Moving Target. She does not scale particularly well into the super-late-game, when you could instead by running an agent with an epic weapon and damage-boosting rounds, although she's a decent tank / disruption hero even there.
Cherub underwhelmed me. A very poor substitute for Terminal.
Torque has some nice control potential. I felt like Verge was already covering that spot in my game so I never really gave Torque a fair shake. Next time around, maybe. She might also be able to be a bit of a dodge tank later in the game, because I believe she can potentially have 90 dodge and 2 armor.
Claymore was one who looked really promising, but I just unlocked late enough in the game that I wasn't interested in pushing a fresh hero up when I already had a handful of agents at or near Principal Agent rank.
Did not unlock Shelter, Patchwork, or Axiom. I've heard good things in particular about Patchwork, so I think I'll be working her into my squad early on next game to see what's up.
I think Sacred Coil is probably the most valuable faction to take down; Bubble Grenades and Dragon Rounds are both really useful. The downside there is that I also think Sacred Coil's final mission was one of the trickier parts of the game, so you might not want to do that as your first faction.
Bottom line emotional reaction? This game was amazing. I was having a blast playing it, I think even more than with any previous XCOM game. Which is a pretty high bar for me; I love the series and have played some of the games in it over and over and over. But it's amazing in spite of some pretty major flaws.
This game is flawed but amazing. Breach mode works really well. The significance of order in, different bonuses and penalties for entrances, prioritizing which enemies to focus in Breach based on overall importance, alert status, and distance... it still, at least to me, covers that pre-fight prep thinking you did in XCOM: EU and XCOM2, but just speeds it up and removes a lot of unnecessary problems. Individual turn order generally works well, although it can be really frustrating on evacuation stages with reinforcements popping into the middle of the queue. I think it would address a lot of the irritation here if they just tweaked map layout - put two high-cover hard points on every evacuation zone, so you could have two agents queued up ready to leave on a moment's notice but still providing safe covering fire for the other two as they pulled out.
The changes to HP and healing are also nice. In general, you assume you will take some damage almost every mission (whereas EU / WotC were mostly about lots of prep so you could alpha-strike a pod out of existence before it got a shot off), but it's not as punishing long-term to take that damage as long as you are keeping it within a reasonable level. The game could probably use a second hero with an allied heal ability though; Terminal able to heal every single turn, while other heroes can either heal only themselves or once a mission with medikits, isn't an ideal balance.
The story is... bland. Feels like a lot of missed potential there; one of the big benefits of these hero-characters was that it did give them more control over story and character development, but that seemed to be constrained pretty much to occasional reaction comments during missions and randomized banter between agents.
The strategy layer was fine at what it did, but simply didn't do very much. Limited tech tree, limited agent upgrade options, limited weapon variation, pretty straightforward and not terribly interesting mechanic for controlling anarchy. Nothing explicitly wrong with it, but it left me wishing there was more.
It's also really buggy. Really, really buggy. Two crashes to desktop trying to enter the final mission, getting "stuck" indefinitely on a loading screen once where I had to force-quit the program, one mission where it never actually proceeded to the next stage after the previous was clear and I had to reload, the enemy visibility preview graphic regularly going screwy, nanomedikits replicating in inventory, some unit model issues with units floating several feet off the ground, the wrong ability being used a few times (not the one I selected) or on the wrong hero (not the one I clicked on), some issues with transitions between agents, occasional teleporting enemies when they break in, a number of tooltip errors on gear in the armory, some camera glitches... the list goes on and on. And these are just the bugs I ran into; I've seen some comments from other people with bugs I never saw myself. I love the game anyways, and it was a very pleasant surprise to have it drop into my lap so suddenly, but it really feels like it could have used another month in QA before release.
Expert difficulty was a little lightweight for a long-time series veteran, except for a one escort-the-hostage mission fairly early on that destroyed me twice while I was learning how reinforcements worked. Definitely bumping it up to Impossible next time through.
Strategy thoughts...
Terminal is ridiculously good, best hero I tried. Definitely Pin Down at Field Agent rank, and I think Armor System is best at Senior Agent. Good use of cooperation is critical to getting the most out of her I think.
Blueblood is decent early game; I stuck some Tranq. rounds on him and found that helped a lot with making sure I got enough captures for intel in that early part of the game. By late game he becomes a monster. Definitely Warm Welcome at Field Agent; I'm honestly not sure which I'd prefer at Senior Agent. The better his gear, the better he does. I ran him with Dragon Rounds when I unlocked them, which was really strong, but it's possible that maybe Talon Rounds are mathematically better for him? Not sure.
I ran a lot of Verge. Crowdsource seems promising, but in practice if you don't have Collar he struggles to build up a significant bonus there. And he just doesn't have the necessary action points for Slam, while Network Healing can make him a respectable tank when fights go long. Overall he was... fine, I guess? He had good uses, but I think there are probably agents I didn't try this game that are better. Berserking enemies is also weird behavior; usually they shoot each other (even if one of my agents is closer), but sometimes I've seen them go after civilians or even just move without shooting. I wish it was more intuitive understanding how that worked. Puppeteer is a great once-per-mission ability at max rank, one of the best ones agents get.
Godmother was another one I used a fair amount and found bland. I think you want either two Shotgun heroes in your squad or none - if you're gonna run a Shotgun hero, you're gonna want shotgun weapon upgrades. But if you're getting those upgrades, the other shotgun heroes also become more attractive. I went with Last Stand with her, and then... she never actually activated that ability all game. Flush might have been more useful, although I guess the peace of mind from Last Stand is something. It also might be more useful on Impossible. I also went with Close Combat Specialist, and think I'd have preferred Untouchable.
Zephyr is a really good early- and mid-game agent. Definitely Pressure Point and Moving Target. She does not scale particularly well into the super-late-game, when you could instead by running an agent with an epic weapon and damage-boosting rounds, although she's a decent tank / disruption hero even there.
Cherub underwhelmed me. A very poor substitute for Terminal.
Torque has some nice control potential. I felt like Verge was already covering that spot in my game so I never really gave Torque a fair shake. Next time around, maybe. She might also be able to be a bit of a dodge tank later in the game, because I believe she can potentially have 90 dodge and 2 armor.
Claymore was one who looked really promising, but I just unlocked late enough in the game that I wasn't interested in pushing a fresh hero up when I already had a handful of agents at or near Principal Agent rank.
Did not unlock Shelter, Patchwork, or Axiom. I've heard good things in particular about Patchwork, so I think I'll be working her into my squad early on next game to see what's up.
I think Sacred Coil is probably the most valuable faction to take down; Bubble Grenades and Dragon Rounds are both really useful. The downside there is that I also think Sacred Coil's final mission was one of the trickier parts of the game, so you might not want to do that as your first faction.
Bottom line emotional reaction? This game was amazing. I was having a blast playing it, I think even more than with any previous XCOM game. Which is a pretty high bar for me; I love the series and have played some of the games in it over and over and over. But it's amazing in spite of some pretty major flaws.
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