News: Game of the month for Civ V - feedback appreciated

[Monthar]

While replaying one of the older Science Victory games, I thought of a question that I don't recall being answered.

All games state the VC and that we can win by any other means if we so desire. Such as this one.

In this game, the designated VC is Science. You may win by any VC you wish, as all VC's are enabled, but the results will be posted with fastest finish by Science victory and then all other VC listed below by fastest time.

Since you can continue playing after achieving one type of victory and the game will grant any other's you complete my question is this. Do we have to submit the game with the first victory condition we meet, or can we continue playing until we achieve the designated victory?

Taking the Science Victory game I was replaying as the example. If I win the game via Domination, can I then continue playing until I launch the space ship, submit on the turn the space ship is launched and have it count as the proper VC, or will the parser catch the Domination victory and list it as the wrong VC for the game?

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

as ive never tried for multiple VCs in one game i dont even know if once you get a victory it will give you another victory recognition after that. that is a complicated scenario and i dont know if that has happened. but i will ask in the staff pages to see if AlanH knows.

 

[AlanH]

I am pretty sure you will only see one victory announcement in each game.

I haven't looked at the code for Civ5, but this has always been the case in previous Civs. At various points in each turn, the victory conditions for all of the enabled VCs are checked. The first one that matches is declared, and the victory ceremony is played out. When this happens, the game is marked as Finished, and no more VCs will be checked either during or after that turn. Any save you make after that records the first VC, which leader got it, and the turn when it was achieved.

It sounds as if you have actually played on to launch after a domination victory? If so, you may have seen the effects of the launch (the movie etc), but did you see another victory ceremony?

 

[Monthar]

Most of the time I've completed a domination victory after one of the others, just to blow off some steam. I do recall at least once where I won a Diplomatic victory a few turns after a Science victory, because I built the UN with a GE just before finishing the last part and had all the CSs as allies. I may have even gone on to wipe everyone out after for a 3rd victory in the same game.

IIRC, the game does give the splash screen for subsequent victories like it does for the first victory of that game.

 

[Halcyan2]

When I first started GOTM, I often tried to do multiple victories (though all on the same turn).

It is possible to get different victories, but some of them do disable the others.

If I recall right from my experimenting in TSG37:

You can always still do Domination after any of the other wins.

If you do a Cultural win, you can no longer add spaceship parts and the UN election does not trigger, so you can't do Science or Diplomacy wins any more. (However you can still do Domination).

If you do Science first, you can still do Domination. You can also do Diplomacy (at least on that turn). I don't know if it disables Diplomacy in future elections. I also don't know if you can build Utopia later on.

If you do Diplomacy first, you can still do Domination. However you can no longer add spaceship parts. Don't know if you can still build Utopia.

If you do Domination first, you can still do Diplomacy (at least that turn). You can no longer add spaceship parts. Don't know if you can do Diplomacy in future turns or build Utopia.

So for my triple trophy win, I needed to do Science first, followed by (in any order) Diplomacy and Domination. I also had Utopia ready (at 1 turn away) but as mentioned, Cultural is incompatible with most of the others (on the same turn).



From my experiences submitting games to the system, if you do multiple victories on the same turn, the basic GOTM submission system focuses on the last one that you achieved. (I don't know how it reads things if you get multiple victories on *different* turns).

 

[AlanH]

If you have an example of a save containing multiple victories I can investigate how the submission system treats it.

The submission system now reads the VC and winner as binary data straight from the save, and there is only one record.

It used to read the event log and look for the victory turn events, where victory turn is a parameter in the save. It then extracted the text from those events to determine who won and how, but that meant it had to be able to translate multiple language descriptions of the win. When Korean saves appeared, we also had the source code for the DLL, and I was able to switch it to use the binary data, rather than trying to work out what "Alexander has won a science victory" looks like in Korean.

 

[Halcyan2]

If you have an example of a save containing multiple victories I can investigate how the submission system treats it.

The submission system now reads the VC and winner as binary data straight from the save, and there is only one record.

It used to read the event log and look for the victory turn events, where victory turn is a parameter in the save. It then extracted the text from those events to determine who won and how, but that meant it had to be able to translate multiple language descriptions of the win. When Korean saves appeared, we also had the source code for the DLL, and I was able to switch it to use the binary data, rather than trying to work out what "Alexander has won a science victory" looks like in Korean.

Check my submissions for TSG36 (two victories) and TSG 37 (three victories). Do you still have access to them?

 

[AlanH]

Thanks.

Everyone has access to the old saves - they are linked in the results pages.

[UPDATE]
Your TSG 37 file has Victory Turn = 398, VC = 4, which is Diplomacy. The event log shows:

Turn=398
Wu Zetian has won a Science Victory!!!
Time spent: 12 hours, 53 minutes
Turn=398
Wu Zetian has won a Domination Victory!!!
Time spent: 12 hours, 53 minutes
Turn=398
Wu Zetian has won a Diplomatic Victory!!!
Time spent: 12 hours, 54 minutes

Your TSG 36 file has Victory Turn = 273, VC = 2, which is Domination. The event log shows:

Turn=273
Catherine has won a Diplomatic Victory!!!
Event=Time spent: 5 hours, 42 minutes
Turn=273
Event=Catherine has won a Domination Victory!!!
Event=Time spent: 5 hours, 42 minutes

So in both cases, the last VC you triggered is the one recorded in the binary value. That's the one that the submission system reports now. I seem to recall I had to manually edit your result to show the correct VC at the time you submitted those games. I don't really want to have to do that on a regular basis for lots of players!

 

[Monthar]

I'll see if I can get you a save with at least a 2nd victory on a later turn than the first victory.

 

[AlanH]

Thanks. I'm guessing it will be no different. Civ5 seems to treat each VC reached as a separate event with its own time played, and it overwrites the previous VC in the binary data. I doubt if it will be any different if they occur in different turns. In the unlikely event that you win, and then play on, and another civ subsequently destroys you, I suspect the final result would be shown as a defeat.

I haven't played a Civ4 or Civ5 game to completion since the very early days. In Civ3 there was a sequence of screens after you or an opponent achieved victory. This showed the responses of your opponents, a sort of rating of your performance, and a replay. This sequence could only occur once as far as I know. Does any of this appear in Civ5? If so, do you get it after each VC you achieve in the same game?

 

[Monthar]

I did confirm that no other VC's can happen after domination. SS parts can't be added. After the UN is built the vote timer doesn't start. Building the Utopia Project doesn't trigger the cultural victory.

After a Science Victory, a Domination victory will still trigger normally. However, Diplomatic acts the same as it does after Domination.

That's as far as I've gotten with the testing so far.

I've attached the replay of TSG48 where I completed the Domination victory a turn or two after the Science victory.

 

[AlanH]

That file has Victory Turn = 291, VC = 2, which is Domination. The event log shows:

Turn=290
Haile Selassie has won a Science Victory!!!
Time spent: 9 hours, 29 minutes
Turn=291
Haile Selassie has won a Domination Victory!!!
Event=Time spent: 9 hours, 35 minutes

This confirms that the VC and turn number for the last victory were registered in the binary data, overwriting the earlier one. I have also confirmed that the binary time played value matches the later victory event information.

 

[Halcyan2]

Looks like the remaining G&K civs which haven't had a second game are: Byzantium, Carthage, and the Huns.

The DLC civs which haven't had a single game are: Denmark and Polynesia.

Would love to see another Deity "Any Victory Condition" game, maybe with Byzantium since the extra follower belief allows for more interesting varieties. ::crosses fingers::

Would also like to see a game some time with the Ancient Wonders DLC.

 

[leif erikson]

Doubt you will see a Deity game this time round, but will take it under advisement. Preparing Deity games takes some extra care.

 

[Maxym]

Yeah I would like to see Danes, I have yet to play them...

A deity Danes game perhaps?

 

[bc1]

Thanks for your wonderful maps!
I would kindly suggest disabling promotion saving for domination victories, with insta heal it's too OP
Cheers

 

[Halcyan2]

With Brave New World coming out soon, approximately when will GOTM start to incorporate BNW content? Will the first GOTM after it is released immediately start using BNW? Or will there be a cooling off period (i.e. a month or two) first?

Also, as a special request: Could game editors try and incorporate achievement objectives into given GOTM's? For example, if a given civ has a particular achievement that requires certain other civs, victory conditions, or specific conditions, it would be convenient if the GOTM map factored that in.

Thanks!

 

[Hyperion529]

the first GotM post-BNW would be only 6 days (even only 3 days for "rest of the world") after release, i doubt that is enough time for them to create and test a map.

nevertheless, i would actually like a quick transition to BNW content and civs. facilitating achievements is also a good idea imho!

 

[Maxym]

Yes that would be nice, I don't actively hunt achievements but if opportunity presents itself I try to go for it. Like building the sea beggar and looking for a Spanish city to snipe in one of them. I remember in first Dido game I attacked a roman unit with elephant but did not get achievement.

I am in no rush to play BNW as gotm until some of the most blatant issues are worked out as I am sure there will be plenty. We still got Denmark and Polynesia to cover.

 

[leif erikson]

Can we have a little patience please?

We are currently discussing the situation. 6 days is certainly not enough time, so we are thinking that 1 August will be the first game using BNW. From that point, we are considering alternating between BNW and G&K for a while so that those who did not get BNW yet can still participate.

We will probably create a couple of polls to get input on at least the first couple of games to get us rolling. No need to post the poll too early as there is so much we are not entirely sure of. We also need to see what changes there are in the save file so we can get the submission system up to snuff.

I know everyone is anxious, so we will do the best we can to get moving as soon as we can.