Next step building adjustments

If you are agreed that the military academy may need a boost, that's the easiest way to achieve that.

I could see bumping the XP value of MA so you always get tier 3 promotions on build. But I wouldn't see the need to weaken the barracks or armory xp.
 
Observatory: 10% science, +4 science per mountain tile within 2 of the city. No mountain location prereq.

What do you all think?
 
In my opinion it should balance that somewhat in setting up the map yes. I don't think the 2x cost solution will work yet (willing to be proven wrong), and in that case, some adjustment to the resource spread will be needed.

I don't think it factors in though as "you have oil, therefore you will get less wheat".
 
Don't like it. For reasons I said, I want it to stay tied to mountains rather than universally available. That's also probably too much science on mountains. +2-3 is sufficient.

I don't think the proposal was to weaken the armory. The armory would get more XP, I think it's supposed to get 20 actually. The barracks would have less (but still enough for a promotion, so it is basically the same).
 
I don't think the proposal was to weaken the armory. The armory would get more XP, I think it's supposed to get 20 actually. The barracks would have less (but still enough for a promotion, so it is basically the same).

My thought on this:

The barracks is just fine
The armory is just fine.
The MA...maybe a bit on the weak side.

So I could see just making a flat adjustment to the MA...but we can do that and simply leave the barracks and armory alone.
 
Btw If we are going to import the English-UB factory from CEP we are going to need to move the factory or add another effect to the english one, considering it was one of its key selling point (being available earlier)
 
Don't like it. For reasons I said, I want it to stay tied to mountains rather than universally available. That's also probably too much science on mountains. +2-3 is sufficient.
Same here. I think I saw it floating around before - an observatory proposal I liked was something like: "Requires a mountain within 2 tiles. +2 :c5science: and +25% :c5science:"
 
Same here. I think I saw it floating around before - an observatory proposal I liked was something like: "Requires a mountain within 2 tiles. +2 :c5science: and +25% :c5science:"

Alright, sounds like we should keep it to mountain then. Though I still say this effect is too strong.

+2 science and 10% science is more like it I think. Probably should be cheap to build with little maintenance.
 
It would still be available sooner. Tech tree adjustments are probably last in this phase as they apply to all sorts of things.

Stalker. Think of the logic this way on the barracks line
1) Barracks gives enough for 1 promotion (and no more than that)
2) Armory gives enough for 2 (and no more than that)
3) MA gives enough for 3. That seems pretty straight forward as a design to me. Right now the barracks has this extra 5 floating and the MA doesn't have enough for a 3rd. I think we agree on the latter being an issue at least.
 
Stalker. Think of the logic this way on the barracks line
1) Barracks gives enough for 1 promotion (and no more than that)
2) Armory gives enough for 2 (and no more than that)
3) MA gives enough for 3. That seems pretty straight forward as a design to me. Right now the barracks has this extra 5 floating and the MA doesn't have enough for a 3rd. I think we agree on the latter being an issue at least.


My counterlogic is this:

I think the MA is weak...so let me effect the entire early and mid game to make this building worthwhile.

vs

I think the MA is weak...let me adjust the MA.


Now you might argue "is it that big a deal...I mean the barracks and armory still give their promotions" I would argue...its not that big a deal, to just leave them as they are.

I like scalpel changes that effect the exact issue that we agree on and as little else as possible. Your fix, even if it only has slight impact to other areas...is still more than we need.
 
My commentary so far:

1) Plus yields on luxuries need to be distributed evenly, but every ressource should just get one (except the +1 faith ones, those could get a second one). These can be moved around later on to balance between 'geography' and 'technology'. That said, do the modern strategic ressources really "feel right" on the forge?

But, that makes the mod not compatible with more luxuries. I don't use that one, so I don't care. Are there people that do? (to the silent majority reading ;))

2) Observatory requiring a mountain within 2 tiles, 2 science and +10 (15?)% science is fine, flavourful and good :) However, yield inflation may be a problem very generally. It doesn't strike me as particularly big of a problem right now.

3) I'd like for the barrack line to be viable in other cities as well. It's kinda sad that you only ever build one per game. Barracks are ubiquitious in real-world cities after all.. However, yield inflation. Thus I'd propose:

Barracks: Garrisoned units cost no upkeep (or 1 free unit per barrack?)
Armory: Culture if a unit is garrisoned in the city
Military Academy: Science if a unit is garrisoned in the city

I know the experience boost is already strong enough and this could make them overpowered. I just wanted to bring the proposal forward :)
 
Barracks aren't that ubiquitous in real world cities. Just in militarized civilizations.

Was the XP strong enough? I don't find them that useful in the mid-late game (they're probably fine for peaceful play, but nearly useless for military play, which seems backward).

While I like the garrison tie-in as a concept, I suspect the weakness of the building is they quickly stop being that useful for aggressive conquest, and not that they aren't useful for peaceful play as a garrison bonus might imply. This is the other reason to scale the XP, 10, 20, 30 is the barracks is probably "too strong" for early conquest or peaceful defense.

I also don't think the goal should be that we may want a military academy in every city. One or two will suffice (one on coast if we don't have a good hero epic spot there, say).
 
They are, they're just mostly cultural event places nowadays. (this may just be Europe speaking out of me). Modern "barracks" however are most often found outside the cities and less the classical image we have. The American Mid-west may be an exception since it is a very peaceful area, but barracks do exist wherever you have a military, where else would the soldiers sleep? These military bases were in the media just a few months ago on the Krim for example, but I don't want to debate them. I just have the feeling that "barracks" as a term is one that you do encounter quite often. That does have no implication on the gameplay though :)

The problem with barracks may be that they don't benefit the old units. How many units do we really build the more a game goes on after all? That has been the weakness of the barracks and my proposal is far from ideal. Nor am I sure it's really needed, after all, not everything needs to be useful everywhere (but 'flavour' ;)).
 
I'm right next to a military base and there's lots of base housing or apartment complexes with numerous contractors and officers in them around. It's not that uncommon in the US for "barracks" to be all over the place like that. But we also have a huge military for some reason in the US. Not everyone does.

I'm fine if the barracks is something you build fairly often, the armory is something you may build a few of (3-4 maybe) and the academy is something built 1-3 times per game (depending on map size or the size of enemy militaries to cause casualties to replenish). Just worried that that proposal makes them closer to things we might build everywhere.
 
Alright, sounds like we should keep it to mountain then. Though I still say this effect is too strong.

+2 science and 10% science is more like it I think. Probably should be cheap to build with little maintenance.

Should probably give more flat science since the tech is rather late.
 
Regarding the barracks: I think they're fine as they are. They're good and useful, why tinker with something that already works?

Fixing the barracks line shouldn't add yields either, if we go beyond XP-only, they should rather tie into city defence somehow like increasing garrison and city heal rate or allowing units to add more strength to the city defence (with the provision that we implement the drops in city bombard strength).
 
That also isn't the change we agreed to on the seaport. FYI. They kept the sea tile bonus on our last agreement.

I find the descrepency.

In the last version, they kept their GOLD bonus for sea tiles but not the hammer bonus...we made that a flat +2.

So it should be:

+2 production, +25% naval production, +1 gold to sea resources.
 
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