[BTS] Noble Shadow Game: Wow, Joao

[keyboard-rider]

Wow, I need to reconsider how chariot rushing is supposed to work.

Got Seoul in 2080 BC. Needed 4 chariots. It seems the AI went Worker after about 3 Warriors.

Time to do some post-war recovery and go and cottage some flood plains...

 

[Gumbolt]

Wow, I need to reconsider how chariot rushing is supposed to work.

Got Seoul in 2080 BC. Needed 4 chariots. It seems the AI went Worker after about 3 Warriors.

Time to do some post-war recovery and go and cottage some flood plains...

Nothing I did was normal for a civ game. Mainly due to lack of food resources. Will look at save tomorrow.

4 cities by 2000bc was very possible here. Who really goes double worker at size one in both cities after settler first.

 

[soundjata]

@Gumbolt I do it and I love it

Not always of course but as a way to transform a heavily constrained start (say Isabella with sheep as food) into a flexible one: by the time I have completed settler + worker in cap, I can do whatever I want: pasture / road / chop and thus optimize my worker turns better.

 

[Gumbolt]

Sweet!!! Koreans built Stonehenge for you. You have too many chariots now.

With imperialist 1-2 mines for settler production is good here. Only so many roads you really need. Might as well build one in each city.

City for flood plains is important here. Pigs/gold too? You need to scout more around Korean's old capital. At least one flood plains to the East?

How to split up all the land you can see. What are you thinking?

 

[keyboard-rider]

• We have no cottages yet. Pottery research will not finish for another 4 turns, at the same time that Seoul will be pacified. Seoul only has a single immediately cottageable spot. We can build some Mines meanwhile, as you suggested. Once Pottery is done, we should cottage as many Flood Plains as soon as possible, as well as the grassland spots around Lisbon and Oporto. This will finance the costs of founding and maintaining the fourth city, which should pay for itself relatively soon.
• Scouting. We can use Chariots to scout since they have 2 movement. The following areas look interesting:
  • the Vicinity of Seoul,
  • the vicinity of the 3F/3F Pig and Gold spot,
  • SE Cow,
  • West and NNE of Lisbon.
• Fog bust the large area to the lower left.
• One city should go between Oporto and Seoul, possibly in the suggested Desert spot - although, we would be missing one Flood Plains to the southwest. We can then cottage around it handsomely.
• Masonry should be researched soon to quarry the Marble NE of Lisbon, as well as Writing to build some libraries. I would even consider researching Writing first, so that Lisbon and Oporto and/or Seoul (not sure what Seoul's beakers will look like once the city is pacified?) can start on the libraries ASAP. We can skimp on Mysticism for now since we have Stonehenge.

 

[soundjata]

This is a good result.

Please put your next city on the south gold, not besides.
You will hate the worker turn its takes to improve desert gold. You will also hate the yield they bring
Also flood plains can feed several cities.

 

[jorissimo]

The weird resource distribution made me think this was a Fractal. I don't think I've ever seen a Pangea generate so little food. But good job anyway!

 

[keyboard-rider]

Please put your next city on the south gold, not besides.
You will hate the worker turn its takes to improve desert gold. You will also hate the yield they bring

+6C is a lot, though. Is +2 immediate commerce really better?

Also flood plains can feed several cities.

Are you speaking of the ones next to the Gold?

T56. Pottery researched, started cottaging while researching Writing for libraries, scouting okayish. I have been reading up on city maintenance costs , trying to get a general feel for what the maintenance costs of any expansion would be.

The Deer spot looks cheap since it is very close to the capital. It is not urgent since nobody is in that direction.
The first flood plains city, which will complete our four-city band, will pay for itself quickly.
What about the other possible flood plains city? It would be very far away from the capital, incurring massive city distance cost. On the other hand, I would be denying Huayna that land. Plains Hill spot would be optimal but is too close to Huayna, necessitating a compromise.
Pig spot city could go in several places. I am tempted to grab the four-resource spot since the Banana is in Jungle and would need Calendar to become useful.
Wheat+Horse+Ivory spot is interesting. Ivory enables War Elephants, but we know that Shaka will be nearby with Impis.
There is also a Corn which I am not sure how to exploit.

So, we have:

- Deer spot
- Rice farm spot
- Wheat+Horses+Ivory spot
- Pigs+Gold(+Banana+Spices) spot
- Cows+Rice(+Sugar) spot
- Gold + Flood Plains closer spot
- Flood Plains farther away spot

Rice farm spot can be a decent backfill later.

Here is how I would rank the spots:

1) Gold + Flood Plains closer spot
2) Flood Plains farther away spot
3) Pigs spot for 6F potential
4) Wheat+Horses+Ivory and - Cows+Rice(+Sugar) spots
5) Deer and Rice farm spots

Of course, the AI may grab one or more spots. I am okay with that since I expect to end up with around 8 cities.
I have marked some alternative city locations with different colors on the dotmap. I do not think they are worth it, though. At best, I can settle about 1-2 tiles closer to the capital, foregoing resources that can come online with Calendar. I do not believe such a trade-off to be worth it.

Masonry will come after Writing so that I can Quarry the Marble north of Lisbon.

 

[soundjata]

well, I know it looks really ugly but I can see a city ON THE CORN after ON THE GOLD lol.
I can't see any smarter way of using that tile

 

[a pen-dragon]

1W of the corn seems fine
If you're lucky, Judaism will spread from Seoul and you'll get an easy border pop. Otherwise (and in any case), the city can go Granary -> Library with relative ease.
Also, I read Gumbolt's post and understand you have the Stonehenge, no problems

With SH, I would prefer 2W of the corn. Granted that gets the corn 10T later, but allows to immediately improve a gold for happiness to grow other cities. Also it does not waste a floodplain and makes use of a desert tile, making for a better medium-term city.

 

[soundjata]

These are kind of small technicalities though.
We should be discussing the GRAND PLAN

 

[Gumbolt]

It's Noble so the tech situ should not be that bad. He has quite a lot of gold. Pottery already teched.

Slider at 100% is 23 science. -8 gold. 124 gold. 11T to PH. 3 turns to writing. Not looked at city micro.

Use lisbon as a worker /settler spam. Cottaging Lisbon seems a waste at present. Focus on flood plain cottages once cities settled..

Seoul looks good for wonder spam.

Maybe settling next to corn is okay. The wait for growth would be annoying but gets the sea food too. Albeit 10 turn border pop for sea food.

A city for the cow/Rice too looks good. There are 3 flood plains to be had but the south gold site should grab these.

You have the rice city but all it has is the rice.

Other side of Seoul has options but might have higher upkeep till you move the capital.

Don't forget most Ai here will still be on 1-2 cities. Where you should be planning 5-6 cities pretty quickly here.

Spamming 3 settlers here is good. Fill the void between the captured empire.

 

[keyboard-rider]

Hmm, I am wary of expanding too quickly and crashing my economy...

If you want to Oracle Code of Laws, you should research Priesthood before Writing, for example.

ps : please don't crop screenshots A lot can be seen that can affect judgement and feedback, even if it isn't what's under discussion (commerce situation, minimap, date).

I would rather have Writing now. Although, if my cities will be spamming Settlers and Worker for a bit, Writing can wait.

ps : please don't crop screenshots A lot can be seen that can affect judgement and feedback, even if it isn't what's under discussion (commerce situation, minimap, date).

Noted, thanks.

I have little idea of the commerce situation. Perhaps it is so desperate that the earlier commerce from the gold tile is necessary

I have attached an image that should clarify the current commerce situation.

GRAND PLAN: Tech up, don't crash
Oracle -> Code of Laws on 4-5 cities, get Maths, Civil Service on 5-7 would seem pretty standard to me.
Pyramids can be built with Stone after Bureaucracy is adopted (Palace in Seoul).
Backfill Horseback Riding, invade another neighbour with Horse Archers

This is where seeing the slider would be helpful.

HA invasion would mean invading someone to the east, since Impis destroy HAs.

 

[jorissimo]

HA invasion would mean invading someone to the east, since Impis destroy HAs.

I wouldn't get too hung up on UUs, since any spearman is stronger than a HA. Most important criteria for choosing a target are: do they have metal, how many metal units do they have, etc.

 

[Gumbolt]

Plus the AI needs to actually build the UU. HA have good odds in the open if on the open. As proven by the person who trounced map with HA. If this was immortal sure the AI might have big stacks, Here at this date i would expect mainly archer defends.

Science should be 100% not 60%.

 

[keyboard-rider]

I wouldn't get too hung up on UUs, since any spearman is stronger than a HA. Most important criteria for choosing a target are: do they have metal, how many metal units do they have, etc.

You're right, Impi "just" have Mobility.

Speaking of metal, I note that the only available Copper is right next to HRE (not Huayna! his Quecha unit confused me) border, in likely border conflict territory.

Plus the AI needs to actually build the UU. HA have good odds in the open if on the open. As proven by the person who trounced map with HA. If this was immortal sure the AI might have big stacks, Here at this date i would expect mainly archer defends.

Science should be 100% not 60%.

I have read elsewhere also that Science should normally be at 100%. I take it this means being conservative with expansion and that new cities should always be improved ASAP with as many Workers as possible?

For example, I assume you researched Sailing before capture Seoul, so that you would benefit from the trade route
The issue is it's only 1 commerce and you delayed Pottery for this. 1 commerce is the exact same yield as that from the first cottage. But Pottery allows you to lay down several cottages and their yield would improve after a mere 10 turns and then 20 turns (hamlets, villages).

Good point

You can actually get Writing in 2 turns if you focus commerce in Lisbon and Opporto (work cottages and quarry instead of mines and silk).

I can do 3 turns with positive Gold income or 2 turns without.

Stack your workers next turn to part-farm the riverside grassland then cancel.
Worker farms 1W next.
Hopefully gets a farm when it gets about there.

I have yet to research Agriculture. Should I switch from Writing, delaying Libraries? IMO yes, since Libraries provide increased beakers, which are downstream from commerce. Nevertheless, city expansion should begin ASAP.
I also have yet to switch to Slavery.

 

[Gumbolt]

Even on immortal you can expand quickly. Your expansion here is not that fast. 100% science is more about game rounding science down. Why be 60% when you have all that gold? You have pottery and soon writing so your economy here will be good once cottages are worked.

 

[jorissimo]

I have read elsewhere also that Science should normally be at 100%. I take it this means being conservative with expansion and that new cities should always be improved ASAP with as many Workers as possible?

It's called binary research. The slider should either be at 0 or at 100 at all times. Has to do with rounding errors. That usually means waiting at 0 until you can research your next tech in one go at 100%.

I have yet to research Agriculture.

If you have use for it, you're going to settle that corn city right?

I also have yet to switch to Slavery.

This is a mistake imho.

 

[keyboard-rider]

If you have use for it, you're going to settle that corn city right?

Yes! It is in my top 3.

Played another ~10 turns.

Contemplating some alternative city sites near HRE border, depending on how they settle. I may HA HRE once my three most important cities are founded, we shall see.

5 more turns until Oporto Settler is out.

~~~

T56 end:
- Switch worked city tiles to maximum commerce, start doing binary research.
- Switch to Agriculture.
- Seoul switches to train a Worker.

T57:
- Oporto border pop.
- Lisbon completes Settler, starts work on Granary.
- Worker by Lisbon starts chopping riverside green tile.
- Oporto top worker accompanies Settler to new city site.
- Oporto bottom worker starts road to new city site.
- Eastern Chariots are sent to explore border of HRE further. I am curious what my chances are of settling in those Flood Plains to the east.

T58: Worker near Seoul finishes work on Flood Plains, starts cottaging another FP.

T59: Agriculture done, switch back to Writing.

T60:
- Settler and Worker arrive at new city site at Pigs+Gold. Settler founds new city, starts work on Granary.
- Nearby Worker starts pasturing Cows.
- Riverside forest near Lisbon is chopped for Granary.

T61:
- Met Gilgamesh, opened borders.
- Writing done. Picked Maths next for improved chopping.
- Opened borders with Shaka, Huayna, HRE.
- Granary done in Lisbon, starting work on Library.
- Nearby Worker starts constructing Farm.
- Chariots start exploring HRE territory.

T62:
- Oporto Worker done. Settler next.
- Worker heads SW to chop green tile Forest.
- Second FP cottage near Seoul done, moving riverside Grassland to chop.
- New worker moves to eastern Flood Plains to cottage it. Seoul starts building Library. The plan is to switch to a Settler at size 4.

T63: Moving Worker onto nearby Gold.

T64:
- Worker starts chopping near Seoul.
- Pasture near Guiamares starts delivering. Worker starts mining Gold.

T65:
- Moving second Worker onto nearby Gold.
- Farm complete near Lisbon. Switched Quarry tile to Farm.

T66: Worker near Seoul chops for Library. Worker near Lisbon starts cottaging another riverside Grassland. Forest near Oporto is chopped for Settler.

 

[Gumbolt]

Why is Lisbon not running the cows? It's the best food tile in the city. Best production too. 34 turn library is too long.

Oporto could build settler in 5 turns if you ran the mine tiles. 5 vs 9 turns. Better to have a good settler pump city than have several cities build settler. Right now you have a lot of juicy flood plain cities not settled why are you focusing on so many libraries in cities that are food poor?

You will likely lose land to HRE to the east. Are all these libraries needed now? You can afford to expand much faster.

Seoul needs to start clearing some of that forest. Chops into settlers give 50% bonus here. The cow resource should be improved first. Great food/production tile.

You are focusing on commerce when you are +18 gold at 100% tax. With a gold resource to be improved soon. You need 2-3 more settlers here to grab the land and stop barb spear/axes spawning. Metal or archers could be useful for defences.