Noble's Club 1- Elizabeth

Well done J4Ck.

I like the fact we've shown that how its possible to go for the different victory types on the same map with the same leader. I'm very happy with my first cultural win, but reading some of the other posts here makes me wish I'd pushed for a military victory! Some of those AIs were really annoying me so Its good to see they got their just deserts!

I particlary liked bleys's costal trade economy idea. Whilst I've seen it done before - Mad Scientists Victoria game - it just wouldn't occure to me to do it on a non archapeligo (spelling?) map, even after I saw the twisty nature of the map!
 
Looks that I peeped in a little late...

I think that I'll try the game, just for the fun of it ( this if you accept a Emperor player in here ;) )

P.S No prob about the checkpoint system... the idea is not even mine.
 
Not late at all! I'll be nice to see what a regulare emporer player makes of the map.

Also any feedback you have would, no doubt, be very much appreciated by all involved!

As for letting an emporer player have a crack well send a check to.... ;)
 
Having got my arse handed to me in my last couple of games, I thought I'd give this a go for some relief. I very rarely go for cultural victories (last one was about 6 months ago iirc), so this was a nice chance to brush up.

Anyway, I thought I'd post my saves so you guys can take a look, if you like.

And, since I've just enjoyed reading all of your reports, here's an overview of my thoughts and actions for anyone who's interested:

Spoiler :

Settle in place. Build workboats, tech Bronze Working.

Mean neighbourhood. Murderous Monty to the south. Charles De Backstab and Sitting Bastard on the mainland. Shifty Sal and Freddy Dogpiler to the NW. Need a roadkill - show 'em I mean business. Monty is nearest and has a holy city. :hmm:

Copper in terrible spot. Settle a junk city? No, too slow. AI is weakest early, during initial expansion. Plus I need to get wonders built soon, so the quicker I get this war done, the better.

Random event: archers get combat1. Archer rush? Too weak on their own, but horses have appeared to the south and Horseback Riding can be done as my settler arrives.

York settled on the horses, while workers build road and London spams archers. Chop/whip horse archers. Rush Monty. Suicide cover-promoted archers to weaken his defenders; HAs finish the job.

HAs go exploring and manage to capture four (!) nicely placed (!!) barb cities, which grab all the territory I'll need for the time being, and a quite remarkable range of resources.

Oracle for Code of Laws, Pyramids for Representation, GS lightbulbs Philosophy - the old ways are often the best. Settle island near former-Montyland to grab marble.

Charles and SB have the mainland to themselves, and will become very powerful if they ever start to co-operate. I could invade SB, but that's too big a war, and risks letting Charles become too strong. They don't like each other atm, so I bribe Charles to attack (twice). Now they'll hate each other forever. Sorted.

Thinking about culture cities. My capital and Monty's ex-capital will be perfect, but I will need a third. Weakling Freddy's capital looks ideal. And he's settling those islands to the west - all that seafood could be very handy later on...

Golden Age with unwanted GPs, run Caste/Pacifism and as many Artists as I can in my two culture cities. Save the resulting Great Artists to kickstart Berlin. Spreading my four religions (three of which I have shrines for, thanks to low-odds Prophet pops), and building up for war.

Conquer Freddy's mainland cities in no time. I vassalise him, partly so I can have his seafood later on, and partly to make me look more threatening to the others. Saladin loves me, so I can move the whole army to my chokepoint city on the mainland, next to the isthmus. SB won't be coming through that lot in a hurry, and Charles can't reach me at all. I am secure.

Proceed with Operation Templespam. Religions are spread, Temples are built in all non-culture cities, Cathedrals in the big three (Berlin gets the Hermitage too). Workshops, farms and mines are the order of the day.

Four tech-targets: Liberalism (Free Speech), Economics (free Great Merchant), Biology (+1:food: from farms), Medicine (Sid's Sushi), in that order.

AI civs are teching so slowly I end up selling them twice as many techs as they research themselves, and still maintain a big lead despite runnning a hammer-heavy economy.

Once enough Cathedrals are up and running, I give the Artists free rein in my culture cities. Earlier Great Artists were settled, but now I start to bomb them. Biology gives a big boost, but more to my overall economy than to the culture cities.

Cities are settled wherever necessary to pick up more seafood. The desert city I took from Monty (the one several of you guys razed) is the better of my two non-culture shrine cities, so it gets workshopped up in preparation for the mighty Sushi Corps.

After the GM I saved from Economics has done his work, I quickly blast out three executives and send them to my culture-cities. The Sushi city then gets Wall Street built to cover costs. I beg, buy and bully every seafood and rice resource I can from the AI.

With the help of the massive food and culture from the corporation (20:food: and 85:culture: iirc), all three culture cities are soon generating more than 1000:culture: each.

Victory comes in 1738, for a 54k score. Not bad, given it's so long since my last culture game. But I made a few glaring errors - for example, London went most of the game without a Granary (so careless!). And I reckon I could've shaved off at least 100 years if I'd planned things better, cut a few corners, taken more risks, and micromanaged a little more thoroughly.

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I always play noble, but I also noticed that the AI seemed to tech very very slowly for some reason.
 
It certainly will be interesting seeing this game played from higher level players,

@Winston Hughes

Spoiler :


Just read your report, I totally forgot about sids sushi adding culture (doh!) plus the extra food allowing for more artists, really missed a trick there.

 
@rolo:
Spoiler :
If you think Hannibals LHC had a strong TE with the GLH-Colossus combo, wait til you see this map, LOL.
 
@ Bleys

Thanks for not spoiling my game :p

I see that you already played your game and have better insight, but TGL works better with higher levels, where the AI has bigger cities earlier. Of course that this is big and small ( wacko maps... only fractal beats it sometimes ) and if this is a ragged map things can tilt that way.....especially for the Collosus

I'm still very open-minded about what to do... and I never played BtS noble ;)
 
Not much of a spoiler rolo, heh, it is a bit of one though, sorry mate, my bad. You will see the layout fairly quickly though, so I know its going to be a "strongly possible" given your starting location, and the fact that I have seen your style quite a bit, albeit under much different circumstances. Very fun map, thats for sure.
 
@Groogaroo

Spoiler :

This being a B&S map, from the moment I saw the start I knew I'd be able to pick up tons of seafood, so I always planned to grab Sid's. Expanding into the prime fishing grounds of the north, south and west (rather than eastwards into the mainland) served this purpose, as did making friendly with Saladin (who gave/sold me loads of extra seafood - the AI really digs its own grave sometimes, doesn't it?).

Good job on your victory, btw. You clearly have a strong grasp of diplomacy, managing to stay out of trouble with such a small empire and those neighbours. That kind of thing becomes really important as you move up to the higher levels. Although, as you may have guessed, I prefer to take a more aggressive attitude towards potential troublemakers, there are times when only the softly-softly approach will do.
 
@Groogaroo

You clearly have a strong grasp of diplomacy, managing to stay out of trouble with such a small empire and those neighbours.

I think its more a case of me have a strong grasp of givinig in to AI demands :blush:

Looking at other peoples games I regret not going to war atleast once, my poor redcoats never got to have any fun.
 
I think its more a case of me have a strong grasp of givinig in to AI demands

You'd be amazed how many players don't give into the stronger civs' demands (or do anything else to make them happy) and then come here asking why they keep getting dogpiled. :rolleyes:

my poor redcoats never got to have any fun.

Mine neither. I thought about sending them on a score-boosting rampage once my culture cities were set up for the win, but by that point I just wanted to see that victory screen.
 
Who come your final score was so high Winston? Does score increase with earlier victories. One thing you did that I wish I'd done was to get Sids but I took to much time spreading my religions so did't go for SciMeth, as I was still producng missionarys late on. Is there a point where the extra food of Bio and a corp would out weigh the extra cathedral?
 
Earlier wins do yeild higher scores but also land mass is a big factor I think, which is mhy domination/conquest victories have such high scores.

I obainted my victory earlier than you Grandad1982, however your score was higher than mine. I think that was down to your % of land mass.

As for the extra food from sid's sushi, probably wouldn't made a big difference in my game, winston hade captured qhite a few of the required resources so I think it did help alot. Being able to run more artists doesn't just add wetra culture, more importantly it should get you more artists and sooner allowing you to artist bomb your way to victory at the end.

I had about 9 artists for bombing at the end of my game, which was handy.

As to whether an extra cathedral is worth more than getting sid's and biology, I don't know. Your cities seemed to be producing a lot of base culutre from all those wonders so perhaps the +50% of the cathedral was better.
 
Yer after I posted I realised that, as with most things in life, its pretty situational as to which method works best. If I started planning a high food strat early then I guess I would have gone Sids, Bio and got a benifit from it.
 
Who come your final score was so high Winston? Does score increase with earlier victories.

Yep, time is crucial, although land area is also important. This is why early domination victories get the biggest scores. Also important are difficulty level and map size (not 100% sure on the latter, but all of my 200k+ scores have been on larger maps).

Is there a point where the extra food of Bio and a corp would out weigh the extra cathedral?

Well, my culture cities were chosen because they had the highest food yield from the fewest tiles (mostly seafood). And I didn't grow them as much as I should have earlier in the game, so the extra food from farms didn't have a huge direct effect (though it probably shaved off a couple of turns).

What it did do was give a big boost to the rest of my economy, speeding up research to Sid's - even after Biology I had 10000+ beakers worth of prerequisites to get. It also allowed me to run lots of merchants elsewhere, and thus to keep the culture slider up for a extra boost to each culture city (again, probably shaved a few turns).

The problem with building extra cathedrals is that you have to slow down your culture and GA generation to get them built. In the end, after a period of intense building, I had three cathedrals in my wonder-heavy capital, all four in my second city, and two plus the Hermitage in my third.

I thought about using Universal Suffrage to buy the extras with gold. But rush-buying is frightfully expensive, and means losing the free beakers from Representation. I wanted to maintain a strong tech-rate throughout, so I could grab Sid's and then shoot for some military techs (taking no chances - this was a culture win backed up with muscle). Extra turns of anarchy did not appeal, either.

The corp, on the other hand, was massive. It instantly chopped 30-40 turns off each city's 'turns until Legendary' counter, and probably shaved off another 10-20 as the cities grew and added more artists.
 
HiI am probably nowhere near ready for prince. I am still about 50/50 win/loss on noble. And I really didnt have a plan other than get them before they get me hehe.
I read your write up Kaytie, and I think you are EASILY a Prince level player. Your ideas and plans were plenty solid, and you executed them well.

Half the game at the higher levels is usually about being able to rush a neighbor to secure enough land to settle, while keeping peace with your other neighbors at the same time. You did VERY well, dont sell yourself short. This map was not that easy, in all reality, we were surrounded by civs that are difficult to have strong diplomacy with (other then Steady Freddy, really). I bet you would have won just as easily if this was Prince difficulty.

The problem with Noble is you can fall into some bad habits and patterns, because the AI is so slow. Prince isnt too bad, to be honest, but the AI isnt quite as inept, so you just have to be a little bit more "solid", if you get my meaning. The switch to Monarch and Emperor is a lot harder IMHO. Personally, I think every player who wrote up their game played well enough to beat Prince. Heck, the very fact that you all come to these boards and read them regularly is enough right there. You may lose a couple Prince games, but it will be because of poor habits developed playing Noble, not "bad" skills.
 
Have to agree with Bleys, I think I'm to reliant on the sloppy AI at Noble level.

Also, Kaytiekat, it wouldn't be to hard to save the start in worldbuilder and load it as a scenario, that way you can play along at your native speed of marathon, which as you said would make big difference to your game.

I see no reason why we couldn't post the intital save in both epic and marathon for future games.
 
^^That doesn't work very well... the WB saves how many turns you have until the end of game... that means if you generate a game in Normal, save it to WB and load it to Epic you will still have 550 turns to play ( and game ends in 1900ishs )

Most likely there will be a way to do that ,but I've been too lazy to dig in the creation an costumization forum.... :p
 
Too bad :(

I suppose its just aswell as people playing on marathon, would be quite behind everyone else playing on epic, nevermind.
 
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