Nobles' Club 216: Suleiman of Ottomans

[gavenkoa]

I want Ramsy as my neighbour every game.

In my first attempt he built several sweet Wonders, but in another attempts none.

I replayed because I was intrigued by your tech opening: AH -> Writing.

I finished Ramsy at T150 with Elepult but it was painful as he got Longbowmen. Also I think he was ready to capitulate with lots of juicy techs but I didn't have Feudalism.

 

[krikav]

@gavenkoa

Spoiler :

In my first attempt he built several sweet Wonders, but in another attempts none.

I replayed because I was intrigued by your tech opening: AH -> Writing.

I finished Ramsy at T150 with Elepult but it was painful as he got Longbowmen. Also I think he was ready to capitulate with lots of juicy techs but I didn't have Feudalism.

He does have 10/10 wonderconstruct, so he is about as crazy about building shiny wonders as Monty is about building units.
I hit longbows too and lost a huge amount of units, with enough catapults you can still push onwards but it's crucial to really commit.
I lost motivation with the game after wilhelms capituation, eager for a new game tomorrow.

@Everyone

Spoiler :

Did anyone try a alternative settlement of capital? Wondering if it could pay off to settle near the wheat (or perhaps even rice?) and go early BW+pottery instead?

 

[gavenkoa]

I made save just before attacking Ramses. I decided to wait few turns to have larger assault forces (came from two sides). Ramsy chose different tech path (went to AH instead of Feodalism) and my forces took a city by a city.

I regret that:

* I didn't built Boat to meet other AIs for trade. As one AI settled on my continent shore is open for pre-Optics sailing. I missed so important trade / diplomacy.
* I didn't have early super-medic. I don't know how can I arrange mini-offense before elepult. I've got Iron working after Construction.

Probably I haven't needed to capitulate Ramses as I have -10 from "You razed one of our city".

 

[krikav]

@gavenkoa

Spoiler :

Regarding workboat.
WvO sent a workboat my way very early, which alerted me that there was other AIs around.
I also saw that he put nearly no espionage points on me, so it seemed likely that he had some neighbours.
But generally, it's important to get a few workboats out quite early, to get a feel for the layout of the land.
Also important to get them out early, as the coasts will rather soon be infested with barb galleys.


Regarding super-medic:
It can be good to build a scout in anticipation of the great general, so that you can send the super-medic up to the front early.
But trying to make some play to get it before your large scale assault I don't think is practical.

You can also have a chariot with c1+medic1, or trying to get a unit to woodsman3.
A tactic that I think many miss out on, is to save promotions for healing. If you get 93% odds attacking with that elephant, and you can promote it to both c1 (and get 95%) and c2 (and get 97% odds). It's likely better to just attack with 93% odds, because that will give you two promotions available for healing, and that elephant will be ready to attack sooner.
Sure, you lose more units in absolute terms this way, but in reality you actually gain units that you have available as more of the survivours will be able to fight sooner rather than later.

 

[crashmon]

Going to play this one as side game while I play the Emperor Shadow game. Looks more of a challenge than the Augustus game I just did, and its also another leader / civ I've not played before. So will start to post updates here on how I get on in coming days

 

[keaaa]

look forward to see it @crashmon ! Will also give it a try, as I have not played with the leader before, and looks like an interesting start

 

[crashmon]

First checkpoint

Monarch / Normal speed (NH/NE)

Turn 65

Spoiler Info :

• Have Rexxed to 5 cities, will probably build one more before switching to Ramesses to take him out
• Only have met Ram for now, but its only Monarch so AI is slower than Imm / Deity
• Have found horses, but the copper is too far north and I think Ram will get it first
• Tech Path so far is AH => Mining => BW => Pottery => Writing => Masonry (so I can get fail gold for wonders)
• Now going for fishing for 5th city, then Alphabet as will probably have to self tech it, then see what Ram has to offer
• Have Lib's in three cities, and am running 2 sci in Istanbul, and 1 in Edirne

Spoiler Maps :

Spoiler Plan :

• Will Probably bulb maths when I get Sci in 7 turns
• After Maths will probably need to head for HBR, then HS's to take out Ram

 

[crashmon]

Turn 101

Spoiler Info :

• Horse Archer rush is underway on Ramesses
• Have taken Heliopolis and Thebes, only Memphis left
• Might do a Ceasefire for 10 turns to get his techs then wipe him out (he has CoL and Theolgy)
• Tech Path was Alpha, then bulbed Maths, then HBR
  
• Traded Maths with Egypt and Dutch to get IW, Hunting, Sailing, Archery
• Sent WB up North
• Traded Maths, Alpha with India to get Myst, Poly, Priest and Mono (over a couple of turns)
• Then met Pacal, used Maths and Alpha to get Monarchy

Maps

• Plan is following
• Ceasfire Egypt to get CoL and Other techs
• Switch to Rep
  
• Then take out Egypt last city (should be able to do this while in Rep)
  
• Focus on getting to Music for the Great Artist
  
• Then will use Great Artist to start Golden age
• Will build up cities on my Continent for Lib rush, then will use Lib to bulb Astro
• As the other civs are all together it seems will see if I can start some mischief over there, and get them to attack each other

@keaaa how is your game going?

 

[crashmon]

Turn 122

Spoiler Info :

• Egypt is no more, he would not give me CoL in a cease fire so killed him
• Now Teching towards Music, but looks like Ghandi will beat me to it
• Used a GS to bulb Philo, next GS will probably go for a Golden Age if I miss Music
• Am in Caste system, so all cities are growing / running Scientists.
• Have Teched CoL, Currency, got money from HBR
• Still have one more Civ to meet
• Right now only Ghandi is concerning me, but should still be able to take him later with Cuirs

Spoiler Maps :

This is actually a fun map to play

 

[crashmon]

Turn 155

Spoiler Info :

• Since last update, won race to music, used GA for a Golden Age
• In the Golden Age, got out a GM, which went to India for 1K gold, and a GS which I saved to bulb Edu
• Expanded to North as well with more cities
  
• Done some trades with AI to get MC and Mach
• Won Lib AD 900, used bulb for Nationalism
• Now teching Gunpowder => MT => Optics => Astro
• Switched to Pacifism as well, now the play is to get to MT and astro, build cuirs and galleons, and then Cuirs rush the AI

Spoiler Maps :

https://i.imgur.com/sFuLSBl.jpg[/img]']
https://i.imgur.com/ErF2uUn.jpg[/img]']

• Am well ahead here, if I win this it will be 4th Monarch win on the spin after my Monarch Shadow game, might step to Emperor on Next one

 

[crashmon]

Lesson 1 :- Do not get over-confident
Lesson 2 :- If one of the AI's vassals a couple of the others, while your at war with a different AI, don;'t try Cuirs, but Tech to Cannons

Turn 261 :- Not quite there yet, but now I can feel it close

Spoiler Update :

• Since Last update I started a Cuirs rush at Willem.
• However while sucessfully executing this, Sally vassaled Pacal and Gandhi.
  
• Here I should have stopped after Vassaling Willhem and gone for Cannons, but stupid me decided to go for Ghandi and all.
• I then ran into several Huge 20+ stacks of heavily promoted Saladin Elephants and Camal Archers, which tore a lot of units out of my army (I was killing 2 for 1, but considering I was having to deal with this, and Ghandi longbows as well), even wilth 40+ units, and a train of others coming on ships, I just lost too many to conquer quickly enough.
• I did get Cav's and took a few more Indian cities, but Sally had 12 cities, and I needed to go through India to get to him, and by the time I got to him, Pacal had also teched Rifles, traded it to Sally, so now I had stacks of Rifles I was coming up on...
• At this point I also had Major War weariness owing to Pacal having Statue of Zeus
• So I took a peace treaty, while bribing Ragner to attack Sally instead
• Teched to Steel, build up cannons, shipped them to Frontline, and re-declared (also build a bunch of Jails)
• This time I got Sally (he has Vassalled), now going to finish off India, then Pacal
• So almost won but its been a slog

https://i.imgur.com/LhmnbW8.jpg[/img]']https://i.imgur.com/lEnQ63r.jpg[/img]']
https://i.imgur.com/LhmnbW8.jpg[/img]']https://i.imgur.com/yPrxmal.jpg[/img]']

• Should be over in next 15 turns, but boy has this been a learning experience on how much you need Seige, and can't just rely on Cuirs

 

[krikav]

@crashmon
There is other alternatives to siege too, say if you have a bunch of cuirs from a earlier conquest, but generally you need some sort of advantages that secures a very unfair war.
But if you have the commerce, you can work wonders with say... spies to do revolts on cities, or keep attacking coastal cities which are bombarded to 0% culture if you got naval superiority.
Airships can work too, to soften up the top defenders abit.

And later ofcourse, tanks instead of horses and fighters/bombers.

Many many many deity games end up being lategame warfare slogs for me too, although fewer of those games make it to the forums compare to the sleek and elegant victories.

 

[crashmon]

I did consider a strategy of going for space, and keep gifting Techs to Ragnar to keep him at war with the Pacal / Saladin clan, but I would have had to mass build Uni's, Observatories, Factorys etc etc etc which would also have been painful, and with Pacal teching away merrily as a vassal of Sally, no guarantee I would have won that or culture (even if its on Monarch), so it was more a regroup effort....

They say you learn more from your mistakes than your victories, so this was a god experience here, if a little fustrating when you take out 20+ units, then next turn he hits you with 10 catapults, plus Camal-Archers which kill your elite cav's

 

[crashmon]

Turn 269 :- Domination Victory (Finally)

Spoiler Final :

So after Sally capped, it was a cakewalk, took out India to 2 cities, then went for Pacal, 2 cities later he capped, and I had the victory
Happy I won, but lots of Improvement needed, I think I can win Emperor on Pangea maps, but Continents / Islands type maps might stay on Monarch and get more Practice

Screenshots

https://i.imgur.com/fnqGpPE.jpg[/img]']
https://i.imgur.com/bCArfKh.jpg[/img]']
https://i.imgur.com/4lFJTpo.jpg[/img]']
https://i.imgur.com/LsNpJuC.jpg[/img]']

@elementoffear :- Really fun map, even if I got fustrated near the end with my bad play