Nobles' Club XCVIII: Huayna Capac of the Inca

Inspiried by AZs video I tried a different approach then usual to get my six cities:

Spoiler :

never thought a Quecha rush could be so effective. Since it is "only" immortal, the gold let me keep the pace and I oracled CoL while getting rid of Mongolia. I settled a couple of cities and bribed Mehmet to war with JC, he convinced Toku to join him.
This is the north of the empire:

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the middle:

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and the south:

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I have never been that far so early in the game, so my question is, how would you go on from here? Music? Diplo? Religion? Go for lib? Tech path and war approach (machinery and maces, cuirassiers or rifles)?

I think my position is comfortable here, but I am not sure how a smooth mid game would look like. Thanks for your input.
 

Attachments

Spoiler :
With so many warmongers in the game, diplo's unlikely to work without war. Sure, you can give away a bunch of techs to get the AIs to friendly, but then when they war with each other, they'll want you to join in and you'll lose points with someone whatever you choose.

JC's probably going to come for you eventually, and you don't have his borders exposed. You need to scout that area asap, and probably park a unit there to watch for him sending a stack your way. Culture is a possibility, but you'll have to keep your power really high to avoid getting DOW'd or kill the stack that comes after you get DOW'd despite keeping your power high, which means hammers that aren't going towards culture. So if you're going to have to build soldiers anyway, may as well go for conquest. That's my advice anyway. :queen:
 
Immortal/normal from 775 b.c. continued to finish

Spoiler :
After Mehmed, I noticed that Ghengis only had one source of metal, so I stomped it and then drove him off the continent. This would prove to be very annoying near the end.
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Teched up, only had capital as a "great" commerce center. Used the Ottoman capital as a great people farm and Mongol capital as a production center. Won lib and took military tradition. Was able to trigger a triple golden age with Music GA, Taj and then two other random great people.

Without a lot of commerce sites, my production was pretty awesome and soon I had a huge stack of curs. Stomped JC, Boudica, Darius and Toko w/ a combo cur/cav. Ghengis has 9 island cities including australia. So i had to go back to astronomy and then attack. Finally was able to cap him.

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decent score, would have been a lot higher if not for genghis on his island.

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Finished it early last night, on Noble, after a meagre 38 hours :lol:

Not read any of the posts about people's progress, so will be interesting to see how you fared.
Spoiler :
Early scouting locates Ghengis Khan to the south and Mehmed II of the Ottomans to the west. Pump out some Queshuas with the intent of taking out Khan. But odds are crap and forces too light, so have to postpone it. Scouting with them instead. Found two cities by 2000BC; horse to the south-west and copper to the west. Then a city further NW with sheep and corn and hills, which becomes the main production city. Meanwhile a solid Queshua force has been assembled and we walk on Ghengis Khan's 3 cities. They are sacked by 950BC. We now control the whole area east of the Ottomans. I found more cities in this area, but am content with the land and progress to get the economy up to speed again.
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The land is reasonably good, but with loads of plains tiles and thus limited food supply outside of food resources. Therefore I decide to farm much of the area to make sure the cities can still grow from the new 2-food plains on the back of food surplus elsewhere. Also discover this is a rather good civilization to spam wonders with, and start with this fairly early. It isn't really a conscious choice, rather one of necessity, but when Civil Service comes in (chain irrigation) and especially Biology, the early farms groundwork is excellent for a specialised economy. Couple that with wonder spamming and ensuing culture points, and it is a great foundation for going for a culture win - something I have never attempted before.

Darius in the far west is not at all well-liked, so when my friendly neighbour Mehmet asks me to dogpile on him I oblige and DoW him. The army is already stationed in the south west border (between iron and fish, just east of the incense), so we can get there reasonably quickly. As it turns out that is good luck, because despite Mehmed's cities being closer, we get to the frontlines quicker. Mehmed does take one small city, while we march around the coast capturing 4 good cities, the latter two just 2 turns before his army would have (Knights got me the last one, most likely, as the slow infantry and siege wouldn't have gotten there in time). Boudica takes cities off Darius too, and when I take his four coastal ones in 1160AD he is only left with one out at sea, and is vassaled to me.
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Meanwhile I spam wonders thick and fast and begin to crouch upon Mehmed's lands, putting serious pressure on several of his cities, though none flip (but a small Roman one up in the Arctic does). Mehmed asks to become a vassal in 1625AD, which I don't understand as we're not at war - but I'll take it.
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With access to Cuirs and Cannons, I begin to assemble a second army (the first camped out west in the new territory) from the production cities and automatically assemble it in the SW city. The goal is to take out some good Celtic or Japanese cities. The stack grows to some 45 Cuirs, 20 cannons and a handful of grenadiers and various defenders - but it does not march on any one - surely to the delight of Boudica and the stone-faced Tokugawa.
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With a culture win the goal, I spam missionaries and Temples, and build the +50% religious buildings whenever they become available, in the 3 main culture cities. The prioritising and odd artist's great work comes together very neatly, and all three cities reach Legendary status with only 2 turns between them. I win on Culture in 1750AD :) It's the first time I've even tried that. It was very pleasing and I learnt much from the experience, not least about the usefulness of religion (which I basically just saw as a diplomatic tool until now).
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Have attempted a specialised economy a couple of times before, and failed miserably, but now when it wasn't really a goal, it came together very well. With founding of Sid's Sushi also contributing to massive excess of food, by the game's end I was running 97 specialists in the 18 cities :eek:

This is from the city with most specialists, Machu Picchu, with 12. It doesn't show too well due to how the game marks 5 specialists, but there are actually 10 artists, plus a priest and engineer.
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Info screen (see the farms count)
Spoiler :
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Wonders (built 30 of 35 Wonders, including the two in production)
Spoiler :
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Specialists (97!!)
Spoiler :
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Culture from City Overview
(Good commerce and research in Vilcas, and pleasing city size overall.
1090 :culture:/turn out of Tiwanaku must be decent too)
Spoiler :
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Thought this ended up as a really good game and I liked the map. Could probably have won sooner with those big stacks, but this was fun too, and with less lagging towards the end than with huge battles and moving armies.
 
Immortal/normal from 775 b.c. continued to finish

That is quite a finish date, congratulations to the victory. I went a similiar route:

Spoiler :

only that I did not went after both Mehmet and Mongolia, but I still figured a Cuirassier/Cav war would be the fastest solution later on. With ten cities I had quite some potential and the capital was refinancing the process decent, along with some fail gold - too bad we did have neither marble nor stone.
Mehmet attacked me after he finished warring JC, but that was 3 turns before I got cuirassiers and went in production mode. He went fast.
JC was teching like hell and was approaching rifling but I could vassall him the turn he got them. Then it was only a quick run over Boudicca, Darius and Toku, who did not even have printing press.
This was the end:

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and the score:

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It helps to have war mongers in the game, the constant war among the AIs really slows them down. Still, I was surprised to see JC got rifles around 1350 AD, but he had 11 cities himself, which kind of explains that


Nice map, thanks for hosting, Dalamb.
 
Monarch/Normal. Huts&Events. 500 AD.
Spoiler :
A third Quechua rush would have been more that a tad late and only Istanbul had access to horses or metal. So, this became a building era.

Tiwanaku, 2N1E of the gems. Machu Picchu, 1NW of the stone. Ollantaytambo, 2W1N of the incense. Cuzco, the Heroic Epic. Karakorum, the Moai Statues. Istanbul, the Pyramids, the Great Library, the National Epic. The economy is okay - CoL in place, currency in 6Ts. Number one in land and population. A close last in soldiers.

The tech situation is poor but Aesthetics should provide for decent trades as soon as the Shwedagon Paya is built in Istanbul.

The problem is a four letter word - ROME. Prats, five great wonders, runaway tech lead - Julius Caesar is a monster. The plan? I'm workin' on it.
 
@GGS:
Spoiler :
Wow! I wonder how JC got so far ahead. Did he conquer somebody early on?
@all:I've read most of the posts, and so far:
Spoiler :
Looks like everyone is ignoring the new world; I suspected few would go there, but thought someone might. I guess conquest, diplomacy, and domination were easier? Maybe I'll try new world + space if I feel up to a game in a day or two.
 
@dalamb Re: The Monster.
Spoiler :
Not sure how he did it. He was not involved in any recorded war. He has a co-religionist and two more, closer to his capital, cities than the Incans. Apparently, that's enough.
 
Noble, Epic, Conquest victory 1722 AD. Ok so I shoulda played this one a level up I guess.

Spoiler :


Rushed immediately, Kahn goes bye bye 2750 BC.
sent the units west with the shiny new axemen following as they could and saw an opportunity to get the Ottomans who had only 2 cities, Both mine in 1450BC.

Game over, really... I expanded as aggressively as I could, stayed up on military which I sent west and was able to fight off an attack by Caesar starting in 215 BC, taking two of his cities.

Trapped everyone in Europe and Africa, fought off another attack from Rome in 960 AD. Vassalized Darius as I took his religion earlier and he was friendly... researched to Lib but stopped a couple turns short in 1365 and went ahead so I could take Steel as my free tech when I took Lib. Upgraded to canon and stomped Rome into the earth beginning in 1480 AD.

Went south, Boudica capitulates 1635, and Toku in 1720.

No need to head for the new world.

 
I plan to (1) SIP (2) Quechua rush a near neighbour or two (3) head for the New World and Space.
Spoiler :
I built worker then just quechua, with a pause for a terrace to speed up recovery from whipping, and started the Great Wall for barb protection when I figured I had enough quechua to take Mehmed. That was the 3rd attempt, though: I failed to chop/whip the first time around, and lost 6 quechua vs 3 archers in Karakorum, then 8 quechua versus 3 archers on a retry. Finally I backed up to the start and went whole hog with 11 quechua to 3 archers -- but lost fewer quechua than on either of the other 2 attempts. Luck of the RNG, I guess. Then I took out Istanbul, and Edirne auto-razed. I'm now aiming to finish the GW, then Oracle Code of Laws (which seems essential with such a spread-out empire). Here's the battle statistics; note 8 lost quechua this time for 3 cities, versus 8 lost against Karakorum alone on an earlier attempt.
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Tech path: mining, fishing from a hut, BW (for chop/whip), AH, wheel, pottery (for terrace for better recovery from whip), masonry (for the GW -- with so much territory I didn't want to rely on getting enough axes out soon enough), meditation, priesthood, now working on writing.

JC is worrisome -- he's at par with me in just about everything. Next turn I should have enough EP to see Boudica's demographics, but it'll be a while for Darius.
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The world as I see it, with dotmap:
Spoiler south :
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Spoiler north :

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I figure on going with the GP farm NW of Karakorum, then the copper/horse/maybe commerce city W of Cuzco. At that point I need courthouses before any more cities (there'll be 5 at that point, with Istanbul and the southern cities rather far away.

I got a scout, gold, and Fishing from huts. The scout explored a lot but finally got killed by a Barbarian warrior.
Spoiler world :

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Immortal until 700 AD

Spoiler :
Well, I tried immortal since Inca are easy to play with. I didn't care for rushes so instead built SH, Oracle and got CS. Mehmed didn't have great land but he expanded like crazy.
Got Conf founded on a border city which smotered one of his cities. Gengis on the other hand had gems but I wasn't that interested in war. But I really pressured him culturally so both was getting pissy. I then sent conf missionaries to their cities and all of a sudden we were in the same religion. Both were at the time gathering huge stacks in the border cities and both were weorn so I knoe I was in trouble. I started building lots of armies just in case in both border cities. But Mehmet got to please and DOwed Boudica. This meant I could move all my amries towards Gengis. Did he care? Nooo. He instead dowed me when I had been waiting for quite some time and got Feu in the meantime. He got slaughtered. Then I figured why not tech mach to get Macemen. So I upgrade my axe and swords and just sent a counteroffensive. Gengis fled out to the islands and I too cap at 700 AD since I didn't want to bother about the islands. So now I am sitting at 1100 pts and Mehement is 2nd with 880 pts. He is only cautios since he is making demands all the time about Boudica and Juilius which he is constantly warring with.
I am looking comfortably with gems, gold,, silver and over 10 cities. I could sit tight and finish Edu and cavarly stomp all or just take my 25 maces and attacj boudica or Mehmet. Probably Boudica since she is weaker but I am practially only border with Mehmet so sitting tight in the tech lead and waiting it out seems nice. Also helped that GK had engineneering.
 
Continued until 1800

Spoiler :

Well, I was forced to attack Mehmet as ROme and Boudica double dowed him.
I took a few cities but he refused to talk and instead vassaled to Julius. That was trouble. Caesar was gaining on me pts wise but not in tech. As him and Boudica were friends he wasted no time in declaring vs darius and he capped quickly.
Now Rome was climbing to top spot with 2 vassals and his buddy Boudica.
Meanwhile I was going for cavs. At 1200 I declared with 25-30 cavs. Even though Julius and all his vassals only had muskets and knight it was a very long battle.
I had to move through Mehmet 1st to reach Rome and it took forever until he broke free.Then he capped right away. Next up was the real target. He had like 50-60 units at least, everywhere small and big stacks. And I had to take every damn roman city as the vassal bug prevents him from capping as long as he has a vassal. Whn rome was down to 2 cities Darius broke free and rome capped right away. Long and tedius war ending around 1550. Boudica had rifles now but Toku did not. I quickly just wiped Darius of the planet and went after Toku. His protective muskets are still a pain but sheer number made him cap after losing his 3 city. But now the tedius part. Boudica had settled a few cities in the new world and then created a vassal Elizabeth to rule over there. Sigh. So I dowed Boudica and after a little while the resistance fell and she lost city after city. But beacus of the master vassal bug once again she can't cap. So I take all he cities in the old world and she has like 2-3 cities scattered across the world. She even offers one of them for peace. Now I am sitting at 5000 pts and Elizabeth has 1000 pts. I am still only at 59 % of the land so I am thinking about calling it game or take some tanks over with a few transports and killing her.
My stupid vassals sure won't help.
 
Immortal / No lucky huts :lol: Conquest 1535 AD...
Spoiler :
Not going to lie...watched Absolute Zero demolish this map on deity. Anyway, started by choking Mongolia right off the bat. Poor fella never got a second city but hey, I needed the workers. :D I got bored toying with him ~600BC and killed him off (as a merciful gesture mind you). REXd out to 14 cities and won Lib kinda late (960 AD iirc) taking MT.

Dowd the Ottomans with cuirs and capitulated him after taking 3 cities. Since I wanted a strong vassal to take on JC (the only real threat), I gifted him all his cities back. I noticed that JC could research Rifling (which I was researching already) so decided to attack before reaching cavalry. Took 3 cities on the first turn of the war and had to heal a few turns. JC got rifles the turn before me but I had enough gold to upgrade my veteran cuirs. The rest of the Roman war was bloody but cavalry in mass still powers through so while losses were high I had more than enough juice.

After JC capitulated, the remaining scrubs fell easily enough. They were still rocking we/longbows/etc vs rifle/cannon/cav (although I just used cav exclusively).

Victory is mine...
Spoiler :
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Not a bad score either...
Spoiler :
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Really fun map. Qnoobs FTWzzzz!
 
dalamb, since you're itching for some hot player on New World action, I'll try this map again under Always Peace and play a colonization game with yay settlement.
 
i dunno whats wrong with the AI on this map but its horribly slow in the beginning... i played on immortal and watched AZ's deity video. in both instances the AI's tech rate was way below normal
 
I did the Always Peace game last night. I don't feel like doing a full-on creative write-up since I'm about to do one for my own game, but it was really easy--should've taken it up to Emperor.

Spoiler :
The AI really doesn't know how to handle Always Peace. Caesar and Khan in particular had these monstrous stacks just chilling in their size 10 cities. I was tempted to turn on Random Personalities just to see if poor Genghis and Toku could get a fighting chance, but I figured it was just as likely somebody else would end up with their personalities.

With 'mids, Parthenon, and Great Library assuring super-powered GPs more often (and with the Great Wall keeping out barbs), I was able to head to Astronomy and get settling parties out to the New World without much trouble while at the same time grabbing Communism with Lib. Settled about six cities along the coast and a few more in the interior (including taking a few barb towns--one with a Tank because it had been giving me fits and I was being lazy) to bring my total at endgame to 29. I got most of the good sites in the New World but didn't grab everything due to poor planning; Caesar and Boudica got a couple of useless colonies out of it, while Genghis spun off Australia as a colony (Qin, which I thought was hilarious).

I usually say "______ was my primary rival," but by building cultural wonders for the purpose of denial, I was able to assure that no one was a rival. Boudica made a very late cultural push after trying over and over to win by AP cheese (easily stopped by spreading her faith around to my massive New World holdings), but no one could touch me. Got to space in 1913 and learned that Huayna's other 80 zillion city names are really, really weird ("Tambo Colorado"? And yes, nerds, I looked it up on Wiki, I know what it is now. :p ).
 
Noble epic 235ad.

Spoiler :

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Stayed at pop1 building quechas for quite a while. Killed Mongolia 3175, razed Karakorum. Killed Ottoman 2750, kept Istanbul. Killed Celtia 1925, razed Bibracte.

Built Gwall 2175 in Istanbul. Went for peaceful growth c 2000-600bc. Built a third city between Cuzco and Istanbul, researched HbR/archery, grew cities.

HA rush: Rome 600-275bc, Japan 140bc-10ad, Persia 40-220ad.

Cities built 2, razed 20. Quechas built 16, lost 13. HAs built 53, lost 19.
 
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