Nolition's CivIII Chronicle (Now Playing Game 3: Maya, Emperor)

[Nolition]

Very helpful response

I was not really aware that specialists were not affected by corruption. I did a bit of tinkering with that information, and will really use it in my gameplan next game. Lots of what I have done so far is sub-optimal, so it's a very good thing that I am playing on Regent! And the news about the Hwacha is annoying - I haven't seen many opportunities to get a kill in. I will admit - I'm a little unclear with the Wonder Golden Age aspect of the game. Korea is Scientific/Commercial. Does this mean I need to build both a "scientific" wonder and a "commercial" wonder? Or will a single wonder of either type suffice?

Are the optional techs the ones with the grey crossed out circle on the tech advisor?

Thank you for your very detailed post - I tried to keep it all in mind when I played these turns, and I really do value the assistance. I think that I made much smarter decisions than in previous wars, and was actually thinking about resources and AI behaviour and so forth.

Spoiler Part 12 (hidden for quick page load) :

This details my war plans. I send one force to Madrid (her capital) and a second, less-advanced force of Knights to Murcia. I also send a unit to pillage her only source of Saltpeter, and cut her off from building further Musketmen.



Formal hostilities are declared.



With this Saltpeter pillaged, and without metal, she is unable to adequately replace lost defensive garrisons.



She does have a single Cavalry defending in Murcia, which I slaughter in the city. I thought this was interesting. Perhaps it's a sign that this war came at a very fortunate time, before she was able to raise an army of Cavalry that would have been very expensive to defeat.



Murcia falls to my Elite knights. I was really hoping to get a MGL out of this war, but would not be so fortunate.



Madrid is also mine on the next turn. This is off to a good start!



This seems like a very powerful technology. Afterwards, I decide to push on to Sanitation so that I can build hospitals and overcome the 12 population cap.



The Army is complete. I'm still a bit annoyed by losing out on the ability to build a wonder now, but that's life. It's a mistake I hope to only make once, and isn't the end of the world.



Capturing cities really doesn't seem to give much gold at all in this game. City improvements seem to be destroyed completely, rather than being converted into gold upon capture.



Valencia is now also mine. Isabella is down to just a tiny portion of her former self.



I proceed directly to Sanitation.



Salamanca falls, but Seville repels my initial attack. I retreat with my wounded cavalry and heal up.



This gave me some alarm when I saw it, but nothing came out of it. A single transporting ship wouldn't have been too much to deal with, but I was in the process of trying to crush Isabella and didn't want to be dealing with the Dutch at the same time.



My Galleon lands troops on her desert island, only to find it even less defended than her mainland cities.



Her city is easily captured.



And Pamplona, on the same turn. She is down to just one city remaining.



Or not. Annoying to lose the elite unit, but I suppose I deserved this, having moved all of my troops out in the failed attempt to capture Seville and end the war. Her best available defensive unit is a spearman.



Finally, the ability to build Hospitals and grow beyond size 12. This feels very good to have!



Back in the right hands, again. No real trouble.



This, however, is a real annoyance. I transfer my shields to Newton's University.



Seville is now in my hands, giving me complete control of this entire continent and bringing this war to a close.



And, it's official. The Spanish Empire is no more. Now I turn my attention to the seas, and to the Hittites. Conducting a naval war is bound to be interesting.

 

[tjs282]

I will admit - I'm a little unclear with the Wonder Golden Age aspect of the game. Korea is Scientific/Commercial. Does this mean I need to build both a "scientific" wonder and a "commercial" wonder? Or will a single wonder of either type suffice?

Yes to the first, no to the second. To trigger a Wonder-GA, you need to have one or more Wonders in your possession which covers both your Civ's traits, and you need to build a Wonder of your own. The check for a GA is run every time you complete a(ny) Wonder yourself, so the Wonder you build as the GA-trigger could either be the second Wonder which completes your traits, or an unrelated Wonder which you build after you've already captured sufficient Wonders to match your traits.

Since Wonders may have more than one trait, for some Civs, only 1 Wonder is needed for a GA, e.g. Colossus [SEA, COMM, EXP] covers both traits for the English [SEA + COMM], the Portuguese [SEA + EXP] or the Hittites [COMM + EXP]; and the Pyramids [IND, REL, AGRI] works for the Egyptians [IND + REL], the Celts [REL + AGRI] or the Mayans [IND + AGRI]. But the only Wonder which is SCI + COMM is the Internet (which has all the traits), so when playing as the Koreans, you'd need one Wonder of each type to trigger a GA earlier than the Modern Age.

Are the optional techs the ones with the grey crossed out circle on the tech advisor?

Yes.

With this Saltpeter pillaged

There's no real need to pillage roads on resource-tiles which you can reach easily: just stationing a decent defensive-unit (or 2) on it, perhaps backed up by a bombardier (or 2), would probably be enough (at Regent) to prevent the AI from using it. Then you wouldn't need to rebuild the roads once it comes inside your borders.

If you'd had a Settler available, you could even have planted a new town on that Saltpeter-Hill. I'd actually still be quite inclined to do that, maybe just (rush-)building a Settler(Spanish) out of one of the adjacent towns.

She does have a single Cavalry defending in Murcia, which I slaughter in the city. I thought this was interesting. Perhaps it's a sign that this war came at a very fortunate time, before she was able to raise an army of Cavalry that would have been very expensive to defeat.

More likely that Cav had either just been built, or had just finished healing after being injured on an earlier turn. Since Izzy didn't have Iron (Pikes), and probably hadn't been able to (afford to) build/rush a Musket before you attacked, the Cav's D=3 would have outweighed the Spearman's D=2, making it the best 'defender' she had available in that town. And as you found out, Cavs don't defend very well...

Capturing cities really doesn't seem to give much gold at all in this game. City improvements seem to be destroyed completely, rather than being converted into gold upon capture.

Gold captured is related to the current value of the owning Civ's treasury, not the value of the improvements in the city. And while Culture-producing buildings are destroyed on capture for sure, most other buildings usually survive, provided there was no prior bombardment — and provided that the AI had the gold to maintain them...

 

[Nolition]

Yes to the first, no to the second. To trigger a Wonder-GA, you need to have one or more Wonders in your possession which covers both your Civ's traits, and you need to build a Wonder of your own. The check for a GA is run every time you complete a(ny) Wonder yourself, so the Wonder you build as the GA-trigger could either be the second Wonder which completes your traits, or an unrelated Wonder which you build after you've already captured sufficient Wonders to match your traits.

Since Wonders may have more than one trait, for some Civs, only 1 Wonder is needed for a GA, e.g. Colossus [SEA, COMM, EXP] covers both traits for the English [SEA + COMM], the Portuguese [SEA + EXP] or the Hittites [COMM + EXP]; and the Pyramids [IND, REL, AGRI] works for the Egyptians [IND + REL], the Celts [REL + AGRI] or the Mayans [IND + AGRI]. But the only Wonder which is SCI + COMM is the Internet (which has all the traits), so when playing as the Koreans, you'd need one Wonder of each type to trigger a GA earlier than the Modern Age.

That makes losing out on Smith's Trading Company even more of an irritation, then. I would need a scientific wonder (because capturing GLib wouldn't count, because it has to be built, right?) in addition, though.

Spoiler Part 13 (hidden for quick page load) :

The ability to irrigate without fresh water doesn't seem particularly useful right now, but this leads to multiple other technologies.



Sigh.



I was just one turn away. I transfer the shields to a temporary placeholder while I wait for Scientific Method to finish researching. I want to build the Theory of Evolution, because it seems like a great boon in my current situation.



I go for Replaceable Parts next. My reasoning is that it will increase the speed of my workers Railroading my territory, which is part of my plan to drastically improve production. I continue building factories + hospitals throughout my core cities, rushing the occasional infrastructure project.



I do get a new city into that spot.



I actually go for Atomic Theory.



Finally, that wonder completes. This has taken an insane amount of time, and I'm glad to be finished so that I can get some absolutely vital infrastructure up in that city. It's been stuck on wonders for so long that it's woefully underdeveloped.




I'm quite happy with these advances. The AIs still only show Nationalism and Democracy available, so I'm not sure what they've been doing. I suppose that they are busy researching along the Nationalism path?



Good for her. I can see where her capital is, and can now sign diplomatic agreements with her.



With Factory + Coal Plant + Hospital in Seoul, I pump out enough units to send out a force. I'm currently up in the air as to whether I should attack now or wait for more forces. I know that the Hittites have Nationalism, so I am expecting Riflemen. Depending on how many he has, this could be a very bitter war.

 

[tjs282]

I would need a scientific wonder (because capturing GLib wouldn't count, because it has to be built, right?) in addition, though.

Yes. If you had got Smiths, ToE would have been a perfect GA-triggering complement to it. Still, no point crying over spilt milk. This game is now as good as won anyway

The ability to irrigate without fresh water doesn't seem particularly useful right now, but this leads to multiple other technologies.

On a dry(er) map, Electricity is hugely useful to boost population in towns on or near Plains tiles, particularly those AI-towns which have spent the last 4000 years stuck at Pop6 or less, because they are surrounded by mined Plains giving 1 food per turn...

(The Conquests AI-Workers appear to have been set to 'Automate, leaving existing improvements', which means that they won't alter 'fully improved' tiles as further techs get unlocked. So they mine unwatered Plains tiles in the Ancient Age, but do not later water those 1-food mines after a later-founded adjacent city's tiles get watered, nor (re)Forest the Plains after they get Engineering, nor irrigate them after they get Electricity...)

I do get a new city into that spot.

Good move!

I would also suggest slipping a town into that large gap between Kazan and Ta-Tu, either 1NE of the Sugar on the river, or 1SE of the Sugar next to the lake: with thorough irrrigation, it should easily be able to reach Pop12 with all citizens fully-employed, and without crowding any of its neighbours too badly. (And with Hospitals, all those towns look like they'd be able to get [well] beyond Pop12; with Harbours, the neighbours can all work exclusive Coast- and Sea-tiles for 2 FPT, and lots of commerce).

I suppose that they are busy researching along the Nationalism path?

Very likely. The Civ3 AI looooves gov-techs, and Nationalism unlocks 2 of them (plus Espionage, which also gives a Small Wonder), so the AI-Civs tend to spend a lot of turns on that path, while the savvy human runs for Industrialization and/or RepParts and/or Scientific Method.

Occasionally a SCI-Civ will get Steam or Medicine as its freebie and then go for Industrialization before Nationalism, but that's quite rare. (There is an article called "What will the AI research next?" in CFC's Civ3 War Academy, which is also very helpful for figuring out good potential trade-bait techs)

I transfer the shields to a temporary placeholder while I wait for Scientific Method to finish researching. I want to build the Theory of Evolution, because it seems like a great boon in my current situation.

ToE is always a great boon, and it's one you should always try to build yourself if possible, since only the Civ that builds it gets the primary benefit (2 techs for free). On higher difficulties than Regent, where the AI researches quicker, this beeline is therefore recommended on reaching the Industrial Age:

Steam + Medicine -> Electricity [-> RepParts] -> SciMethod

If you're down to 4 turns per tech by that point, this would take 20 turns. Even before Factories/Hospitals, a Pop12 core-city on fully mined+railed Grassland can get 2-3 shields per tile, or ~25-30 shields per turn, so this town could start (pre)building ToE at the beginning of the beeline, and complete it just as SciMeth comes in, or shortly thereafter. Then you take AtomicTheory + Electronics as your ToE-freebies, giving you the 2 most expensive techs of the Industrial Age for (just) 600 shields. And if your Civ is SCI and you got Steam or Med as your freebie (as I usually seem to — it's rare to get Nat), the beeline would only be 16 turns, giving you time to go for Industrialization (or Sanitation) as well. And if you've been really savvy, you'll have a Hoovers (pre)build in progress as well, getting you that Wonder too, to boost all the Factories you're now building.

And in the meantime, the AI-Civs will likely have finished Communism, Fascism, and Espionage, and probably gone some way along the Industrialization branch, so you'll now be able to trade some of your shiny new (monopoly) techs for everything they've got.

With Factory + Coal Plant + Hospital in Seoul, I pump out enough units to send out a force. I'm currently up in the air as to whether I should attack now or wait for more forces. I know that the Hittites have Nationalism, so I am expecting Riflemen.

So upgrade all your Cannon (EDIT for brainfart) Hwach'a to Arty (needs no resources, only gold) and send them along with your Inf+Cav stack to bomb the (first of the) Hittites' towns from 2 tiles away before sending your Cavs across.

EDIT II (Son of Edit):
Or even better, keep your Hwach'a, add some Arty, export them both, and use the Arty's B=12, F=2 stats to redline incoming, followed by the Hwach'a's lethal land bombard for the kill (=GA!).

Also, I know you've already proven yourself untrustworthy, but if you're not fighting Willy and/or Cathy already, you might still be able to sign an RoP with one or both of them, if you tied it to an MA against the Hittites (you might have to give up a tech or two as well). That would allow you to land your stack on Dutch/Russian territory (I'm looking at that eastern town on the Hittite island(?), but I can't tell if it's brown or orange), which would then make it more difficult for the Hittites to attack your units on the interturn right after they land, before you've had a chance to move them. It would also help to filter out the Hittites' fast units from their slow ones, giving you the opportunity to winnow them down piecemeal before you begin pushing forwards. If you can't sign an MA with the Dutch/Russians, then maybe DoW that town's owner first and take it to use as your beachhead. Then thoroughly reinforce it (and maybe also pop its borders with a rushed Lib) before you DoW Mursilis.

But for any overseas invasion, you will need to be sending a constant stream of reinforcements. If your rail-net is now complete, consider setting a northern continental town, the one closest to your Dutch/Hittite beachhead, as your Continental Rally Point, to minimise the busy-work required to bring all your newly-built units north to load on your ships. (These should just be shuttling back and forth between your beachhead and your CRP, with your Frigates/ Ironclads/ Destroyers stationed on any obligatory stopping-points in the open sea).

 

[Toxicman007]

Lurker's note; That Dutch city on the east side of the Hittite island actually has a Celtic name. I assume it was conquered (or given up in a peace treaty) some time ago.

 

[Nolition]

I would also suggest slipping a town into that large gap between Kazan and Ta-Tu, either 1NE of the Sugar on the river, or 1SE of the Sugar next to the lake: with thorough irrrigation, it should easily be able to reach Pop12 with all citizens fully-employed, and without crowding any of its neighbours too badly. (And with Hospitals, all those towns look like they'd be able to get [well] beyond Pop12; with Harbours, the neighbours can all work exclusive Coast- and Sea-tiles for 2 FPT, and lots of commerce).Very likely. The Civ3 AI looooves gov-techs, and Nationalism unlocks 2 of them (plus Espionage, which also gives a Small Wonder), so the AI-Civs tend to spend a lot of turns on that path, while the savvy human runs for Industrialization and/or RepParts and/or Scientific Method.

The AI research priority is an absolutely brilliant guide to have. Do you happen to know if there's an equivalent for my Civ4 games? I'm often trying to guess what to research for trading purposes. The AI worker decisions have always baffled me in Civ. It's almost as if they want to make their territory so unappealing that you leave them alone, afraid to spend hundreds of worker-turns terraforming it. I jest...

Settling that city ultimately slipped my mind during these turns, but I will get one up there. I had also noticed that spot and given brief thought to it earlier, and decided to avoid it for some reason. Oops! The rally point would prove to be a life-saver in terms of preventing an insane amount of clicking and unit management. Excellent feature.

Lurker's note; That Dutch city on the east side of the Hittite island actually has a Celtic name. I assume it was conquered (or given up in a peace treaty) some time ago.

Presumably, it was an overseas colony, since I can't find any other Celtic cities on that island. There must be another island that was completely overrun by the Dutch somewhere.

Spoiler Part 14 (hidden for quick page load) :

I land my units, avoiding the mountain so I can get the Hwacha out. Operation: lethal bombard is on! Many of the improvements in the countryside have been destroyed. Odd. Perhaps during a war with the Dutch? Strange that they weren't promptly replaced. More AI strangeness, maybe? I attempted to use the Dutch's territory, but establishing the embassy to even bargain for it was a waste of 100+ gold and I reloaded. I really don't like to reload except in the event of a serious misclick, but I did accept some slight cheating.



War is declared. I have no idea what I did to earn his fury before even attacking him.



I am guilty of missing a few last-turn research reductions in this set of turns.



The Hittites are going for undefended Ulsan! I reinforce the city using the railroad.



But his landing is... very weak, to say the least. A single Medieval Infantry, which falls to my Infantry easily. The ships sail off.



Tired of his constant reinforcements, I used cavalry (covered by infantry) to pillage those roads and cut off the city. Then, after many, many turns of grueling warfare (riflemen fortified in a city are very proficient at shredding Cavalry, I discovered) and bombardment, I see that he has also conscripted some units. At numerous points in this saga my Army almost died (down to a single health) but managed to hang on and heal in enemy territory. Seeing how useful this ability is (the Army did most of the heavy lifting against the city) I decide to build Battlefield Medicine in one of my cities.



He has brought in some frigates, so I begin building a few of my own and am reduced to some stealthy reinforcing missions. I begin researching combustion in order to reveal Oil and begin building some real naval weapons.



My Army barely survives, yet again. I finally realize that I should have been building more in Seoul, instead of just cranking out regular infantry and artillery every two turns. Oops! Bad move, here.



This was my third and final close call with my army, who finally overpowers the last defender captures the city. The Hwacha's lethal bombardment failed at the critical juncture, but I am hopeful that I can engineer another good opportunity.



Look at all of those wonders! And I did end up with Smith's Trading Company, which seems like vindication and is providing a marked economic benefit. Tremendous!



He is willing to make this peace settlement, but is not willing to give me any technology. I did not accept, because I am currently of a split mind. My troops are all at 1 health left, except for one that has 2. I have no prospect of bringing in reinforcements because he currently controls the ocean between us, until I can get some frigates in and beat a path through this ships. A ceasefire would allow my troops time to heal, and to get more armies into the field to take out his other cities. I can now use Hattusas as a beachhead to launch a further conquest of the continent and eliminate the Hittites, which will put me very close to the domination cap. The World Map would also give me the location of any small islands (perhaps the home of the future Sumerians) where I could confront the Dutch or Catherine to put me over the cap, instead of trying to launch an invasion of the Russian homeland (far away from my island). So I'm up in the air about this one.

 

[tjs282]

Do you happen to know if there's an equivalent for my Civ4 games?

Can't help there, I'm afraid: you almost certainly know more about Civ4 than I do!

I have no idea what I did to earn his fury before even attacking him

Never made an Embassy with him, broke a whole bunch of deals with a whole bunch of people he knew, became much more advanced than him, and then landed an invasion-stack on his land, right outside his capital? That would probably do it...

I land my units, avoiding the mountain so I can get the Hwacha out.

And this was possibly premature. Hattusas was not only his capital, but it also has a bunch of Wonders, so it would likely have been his best-guarded town by some margin. That's why I suggested landing well outside his core, and letting him come to you first, before pushing forwards one town at a time. Even landing on the Hills near Hattusha might have been a better option (Hwach'a can move onto Hills without roads, so they can land on Hills directly from boats), since the Army + Infs + Hwach'a would have pretty much guaranteed that you wouldn't have got attacked.

Remember, for 'normal' towns with up to 1000 Culture, once your Cavs have captured it, any Infs stationed outside the town's borders before the attack started, should now be able to reach the city on the same turn. Rinse and repeat...

Tired of his constant reinforcements, I used cavalry (covered by infantry) to pillage those roads and cut off the city.

Cutting his roads was smart, but it might have been even smarter to use bombardment and/or your Army to do it, since C3C-Armies can pillage without using MP. A Cav-Army can therefore move+pillage 4 tiles per turn, so cutting off any inland capital takes 2 turns, max. (to remove the roads in the adjacent 8 tiles), and a Cav-Army is unlikely to be attacked by anything weaker than Tanks/Bombers on the first interturn, even if it's not covered by Infantry.

But cutting off the roads to/from his other cities (and blockading the Harbour) was all you really needed to do: that would destroy any import/export deals he has, making it harder for him to build stuff/ keep his people happy. You could have then used your stack to mop up his adjacent cities, before bringing it (plus reinforcements) back to bear on the Capital...

(riflemen fortified in a city are very proficient at shredding Cavalry, I discovered)

Yes they are, which is why a large(r) stack of Hwach'a/Arty (or Frigates) might have been in order.

I begin researching combustion in order to reveal Oil

You just got Refining, so you should be able to see Oil already.

If you have none anywhere in your current holdings, then Combustion won't help you until you buy some from someone else: if push comes to shove, it would be worth buying up Territory/World Maps from some/all non-hostile contacts, until you find someone who has Oil, and then selling/gifting that Civ up to Refining. Because they can't sell it until they can see it -- but the good news is, until they can use it themselves (Combustion onwards), they'll sell it for cheap(er)...

I can now use Hattusas as a beachhead to launch a further conquest of the continent and eliminate the Hittites, which will put me very close to the domination cap.

You need 66% land and 66% population for domination in C3C. The Hittite island will maybe get you to 50% land, but you'll likely need (a lot) more Hospitals for >50% pop. That said, founding farm-towns separated by 1 (fully railed+ irrigated) tile (CxCxCxC...) in corrupt areas is a much quicker/cheaper way to crank up your population, than turning Cities into Metros...

instead of just cranking out regular infantry and artillery every two turns.

Yeah... I wouldn't use any Barracks-town to build Arty, let alone your capital: build/rush them on the (semi)corrupt fringes, in towns which can't do anything else useful...

 

[Nolition]

Can't help there, I'm afraid: you almost certainly know more about Civ4 than I do!

Interesting! I have not played 5 or 6, but 3 has something of an undeserved poor reputation. I'm glad that there are some people out there that really appreciate it.

Never made an Embassy with him, broke a whole bunch of deals with a whole bunch of people he knew, became much more advanced than him, and then landed an invasion-stack on his land, right outside his capital? That would probably do it...

When you put it that way... Should I be establishing embassies with everyone? I'll admit that I didn't really see the point of it when I made that consideration earlier.

This conflict was mis-managed on my part. Maybe it was the wonder, maybe it was the capital, but the buildup was just too much to practically engage with. Going 1:1 with the AI and taking equal losses is not a good way to go about things in any civ game. While it was technically a victory, it was really not what I wanted to accomplish. Note to self in future: avoid beelining for the capital when fighting a war. And I definitely did tunnel-vision on the capital, even when I could see that it wasn't working. I should have pinned the city and then moved on, you're right. He was producing reinforcements in all of his other cities, and I should have been working to stamp those out while keeping his capital under my thumb.

I did have oil, as it turned out. I just had difficulty finding it (difficult to see over the mines), but I did locate where my source was eventually: on the desert island I conquered from Isabella. A diplomatic finesse was thus not necessary. Ideas such as yours would not have ever occurred to me - this is a level of strategy very far beyond me, at present. This is how one gets better, though - by playing and reading how others would approach the challenges at hand.

Spoiler Part 15 (hidden for quick page load) :

I did end up deciding to take that deal. My military force was just so depleted that no good would have come out of pressing on. I would have been sitting in his capital while he brought troops against me, and losing the war weariness for a few turns won't hurt my economy. The world map revealed a few things of note: there are more Dutch cities on this coast than I had thought, and even a lone Russian one. I'm not sure how the Dutch colony works, and have only a vague memory of building one myself once. More importantly, I discovered that this is actually a single contiguous landmass. I can march directly from Hittite territory into the Netherlands.




Um... okay! I'm not sure what he hopes to accomplish here, exactly. I would have thought that he would also be rebuilding his military to try to retake his capital. I suppose the AI is just an inscrutable mystery at times. Although I have a feeling that you may be able to explain this behaviour to me..



I want to build tanks. That will speed up my conquest of this continent greatly. You can also see the tiny land bridge in this screenshot.



Russia wanted to swap world maps. Since I already know everything, I decided to see if she would take a counteroffer. She was ultimately willing to pay me 8 gold for it. Okay. I also decided to see if she would pay me for me to join her in her war against the Hittites, but she would not.



I have reinforced my troops on the other continent and have made progress towards my goal of tanks. I decide that the time is ripe to destroy the Hittites.



This seemed a lot more useful when I was in the grind-out war with the Hittites before, when I started building it. I guess it doesn't hurt to have. I begin work on the Pentagon so that I can create even more durable armies.



My troops advance, while leaving a sizeable guard in Hattusas to prevent it from flipping back to Hittite control. I'm trying to be extra careful about this, because having to re-capture that city would be a disaster at this point.



War is declared. Let everyone distrust me. This is probably my biggest regret in this game - and I'm sure that diplomacy becomes more vital at higher difficulties. I've got to get these bad habits scratched, but I consider my reputation so thoroughly destroyed by this point that I cannot make it much worse.



Yet another set of failures to lethally bombard with the Hwacha. I believe I failed at 5 different attempts in this set of turns. Perhaps it is just not meant to be.



I am able to take Tarsus, even if the Hwacha fails me again.



I suppose that Mursilis sees just what a poor idea this war with Russia is?



I push up north and take Lugdunum while one of my Armies advances to the south. I have another landing occurring near Hattusha. I have a distinct feeling that the Hittites' days are numbered.



I got far too greedy when I sent my cavalry-army to assist with the upcoming attack on Hattusha. It seems I need to be even more careful than I had thought.



Other than that minor setback, the war is progressing well on all fronts.



Tanks! I get to work immediately. I want tank armies in the field. I end up deciding to research Flight in order to advance to the next era.



This was nothing but a minor annoyance. The biggest issue was that it gave Mursilis control of those railroads again, which he used to bother some of my siege units and workers that were lightly guarded.



Okay, now I'm puzzled. What does Russia hope to gain from this war? Lugdunum, presumably? Or perhaps they were bribed into the war by the desperate Hittites. I'm not sure how to tell. Either way, she attacked with that fortified Cossack, which died, and then landed a medieval infantry and another Cossack outside Lugdunum. These were bombarded down, but survived Hwacha bombardment. A very weak attack that was easily repelled.



He is down to a single city, which will soon fall to my Army.



His defensive cavalry are no match.



And it's done! There are only two AI civilizations remaining, now.



I decide to probe Yakutsk with my Cavalry army. It turns out that it was only garrisoned with a single Rifleman. Oops! This part of the continent is now a Catherine-free zone. She is still not willing to even talk to me, so I guess I will have to remain at war with her. At least the weariness from this conflict is minor compared to the aggressive wars that I've fought so far.



True to your prediction, I've hit the 50% world area mark. I'm way ahead of that in population, at 59% and steadily rising. I estimate that getting the last 7% will be easy, between the conquests and the natural growth of my cities.

My idea on how to achieve victory: allow a few turns to get this tank army assembled and ready, and a few more infantry to garrison these cities, and then declare war on the Netherlands. I expect that I could very rapidly clean up his eastern cities and then I think I can flood troops into the choke point.

The alternative would be to sail a fleet down to Catherine. She has something like 11% of the world territory. Once I eliminate her (and expand into the territorial gaps left in my new territories) I will be very close to the domination cap. This would reduce the amount of territory that I would have to take from the Dutch, who are going to offer a far more determined resistance than Russia is capable of. The downside is that it will require a very lengthy naval passage to reach her, and I do not like waging this kind of extended naval war.

What do you think?

 

[Toxicman007]

Interesting! I have not played 5 or 6, but 3 has something of an undeserved poor reputation. I'm glad that there are some people out there that really appreciate it.

I have played all the Civs, but 3 is by far my favourite. Really defined my adolescence, and I'm glad the Stories subforum isn't quite dead yet! Enjoying your tale, Nolition.
That Dutch Colony is a (fairly) rare sight, basically all it does it give you a resource that is outside your borders(and connected by road, of course). It can be destroyed by enemies though, so you need a defender or two. Usually this late in the game, all the land is taken already so colonies are impossible to create. Personally I only use them early-game, to get something very important like Iron that is a bit too far away.
Well done on taking out the Hittites! Not far off that Domination victory you have your eyes on, your plan to attack the Dutch should work nicely. Once you take that chokepoint city, Sumer (RIP Sumeria, we never knew you), you won't have to worry much about the eastern side of the continent any more. I assume the Dutch cities there will fall quickly, without reinforcements other than by sea.

I suggest a very useful little application called CivAssist 2. It should be available to download here on civfanatics, it provides a lot of detailed information that the standard game doesn't. For example, it will show you the %chance of a culture flip in a city, and show you what trade options the AI has without having to enter a diplomacy window with each and every one of them. I always use it during my Civ3 games, feels almost strange without it now!

 

[tjs282]

I'm not sure how the Dutch colony works, and have only a vague memory of building one myself once.

A Colony allows you to use any non-claimed Resource which is currently outside everyone's Cultural borders, but to be able to use that Resource throughout your empire, it has to be hooked to your entire trade-net. So a Colony on your own Continent would just need a continuous road (ideally) to your capital, which can go through other Civs' lands even without an RoP (but you will lose access to the Resource -- and probably also the Colony! -- if you go war with those Civs). For an overseas Colony, though, you will need a Harbour in a nearby town of yours and the ability to cross any intervening water-tiles 'safely' (i.e. Astro to cross sea-tiles, Magnets/Navi to cross Ocean tiles).

I rarely use Colonies in the epic game, but they can be useful e.g. for grabbing Iron/Gems on Hills/Mountains just beyond my borders, provided I can replace the lost Worker quicker than I could road that Mountain. The Colony acts like a road in itself, so a Colony brought within someone's borders simply turns into a road.

Colonies are much more useful in Mods in which additional terrain-types (e.g. Deserts/Tundra) have been made non-Settle-able (preventing towns being planted on/near resources associated with those terrains), and/or where fewer terrains are irrigable (so a town planted to grab a resource can't grow big enough to be otherwise useful).

Um... okay! I'm not sure what he hopes to accomplish here, exactly. I would have thought that he would also be rebuilding his military to try to retake his capital. I suppose the AI is just an inscrutable mystery at times. Although I have a feeling that you may be able to explain this behaviour to me..

Mursi's just been significantly weakened by your attack, and cannot compete with you (or the Dutch), but Cathy has a land-accessible town adjacent to his borders (and presumably also a relatively weak military, given her territory-size), so I would guess he DoW'd her to expand his meagre holdings.

I also decided to see if she would pay me for me to join her in her war against the Hittites, but she would not.

She probably can't afford to. Weak AI-Civs rarely have sufficient gold/techs to pay a 'fair' price for protection, especially at Regent. Did you try offering an MA for nothing (or an MPP, if you have Nationalism)? She might have gone for that.

My troops advance, while leaving a sizeable guard in Hattusas to prevent it from flipping back to Hittite control.

This was risky. Like I said before, eliminating flip-risk may require an inordinately large stack, and if yours isn't quite big enough to zero the probability, you risk losing all the units in it. Better to leave 1-2 decent defenders in the town, and station the 'anti-flip' troops outside. You might also want to consider rushing a Lib to pop the town's borders, since the AI's tendency to found towns at CxxxxC means that just 10 Culture-points might be sufficient to get control of the entire BFC (i.e. no tiles controlled by the AI), which does go a long way to reducing the flip-risk.

Tanks! I get to work immediately. I want tank armies in the field.

Game over, man, game over!

Okay, now I'm puzzled. What does Russia hope to gain from this war? Lugdunum, presumably? Or perhaps they were bribed into the war by the desperate Hittites.

If you didn't get a "The Hittites and Russians have signed an MA against us!" pop-up, then no, Cathy did this all by herself -- likely because she 'thought' she could take Lugdunum on that turn (did you have only 1 Cav defending it?). The AI responds to relative troop placement on a turn-by-turn basis, and does not plan ahead as such.

At least the weariness from this conflict is minor compared to the aggressive wars that I've fought so far.

War weariness is calculated on a Civ-by-Civ basis, so any WW you saw right then was likely the result of your resuming hostilities against the Hittites -- which should be gone with their defeat. If Cathy attacked you, then you actually now have 'War Happiness' which -- provided you prosecute the war against her efficiently -- will stave off WW for a few turns, possibly longer. Hurt Cathy a lot worse than she hurts you (try not to let her Frigates bombard your coasts, kill everything she lands), and you might even be able to stay at war with her until the end of the game, without the glorious Korean empire ever suffering any significant ill-effects from (Russian-inflicted) WW.

I expect that I could very rapidly clean up his eastern cities and then I think I can flood troops into the choke point.

I agree. If you have 50% land already before you've popped the ex-Hittites' city-borders, then you may be able to get 66% just by controlling the eastern section of that Continent. So before DoWing Willy, I'd first stockpile Tanks/Infs near the borders of all the eastern Dutch towns. After you declare war, you should then be able to take all those towns within 1-2 turns (1 turn to move the Tanks adjacent to the town, maybe 1 more turn to take it): Tanks have Blitz, so against Rifles, you'll likely only need 3-4 Tanks -- i.e. 6-8 attacks -- per town, plus 1-2 Infs to guard it once it's yours. Taking Kish should be a priority, since it connects by rails to the rest of the Dutch empire, but DON'T go for Sumer -- yet -- because taking Sumer will block off the choke-point entirely, which you may not want/need to do, yet.

Rather, I'd recommend a variant on the 'Funnel of Doom' tactic. This relies on the AI's 'preferences' to invade by land if it can see a clear path(s), and to target 'soft' cities even if it can't reach them in 1 turn, over more accessible but 'hardened' cities, tough defensive units, and especially over Armies. The way the trick works is, you station your (Infantry-)Armies + fast-units (Cavs/Tanks) + Arty(/Hwach'a) alongside that 'preferred' path(s), such that all enemy units are 'forced' to go past it/them to get to your conquests. Every incoming unit will then run the risk of taking 'Zone-of-Control' damage (from the Armies and Cavs/Tanks), which may/will encourage some of them to immediately retreat -- getting ZoC'ked again on their way out. The few units (initially low-D fast-units, later foot-units) that do manage to get through the FoD relatively unscathed can then be bombed/killed, before they can do any damage.

So if you garrison each of your more easterly coastal conquests with >=1 Inf, and Kish and Ugarit more heavily with 2-3 Infs (+Arty), but leave, say, Tarsus ungarrisoned, the Dutch should head for that rather than anywhere else. That inland tile 2E of Sumer, plus the 2 tiles NE (Horses) and SE are therefore a great prospect for building a small FoD: (Infantry)Army-stacks stationed on those 3 tiles can't be bombarded from the sea until Willy has Battleships; you should also pillage the coastal (rail)roads to Kish and Ugarit, to slow down Willy's fast-units (he probably has dozens of Cavs by now -- but your Cavs and Tanks should make short work of them).

(Conversely, if you block the choke and guard everything 'equally', Willy will just send his troops by sea instead, and you'll have less influence/control over what he'll pick as his target.).

The majority of the war should be over within the first 3-5 turns, during which Willy might have taken so much damage that he's already willing to make peace. In the meantime, your Hittite conquests can be (rush-)building Libs -- or cheaper and possibly better, Settlers(Hittite) -- to fill in the gaps in the eastern section. If that's still not going to enough to exceed the Domination-limit, then once you've smashed the bulk of the Dutch land-forces, you'll be in a great position to push further west into the Netherlands via Sumer.

I wouldn't bother going after Russia. Just kill everything Cathy sends at you (by sea, since her troops can't get through Sumer), and keep your Russian WH...

 

[Nolition]

I have played all the Civs, but 3 is by far my favourite. Really defined my adolescence, and I'm glad the Stories subforum isn't quite dead yet! Enjoying your tale, Nolition.

I'm really glad to hear that! I know what you mean. I'm still playing some dying flash games that I played when I was younger, even though almost everyone else has gone on. Somebody's got to keep things alive. This thread has now passed the 500 views mark, which is far, far, far beyond my wildest hopes when I set out and created it. I didn't think a single person would respond, and I've had a wealth of great advice and help from multiple people. I've said this a bunch, but everyone reading this will have to forgive me for saying it once again (I am Canadian): thank you!

I suggest a very useful little application called CivAssist 2. It should be available to download here on civfanatics, it provides a lot of detailed information that the standard game doesn't. For example, it will show you the %chance of a culture flip in a city, and show you what trade options the AI has without having to enter a diplomacy window with each and every one of them. I always use it during my Civ3 games, feels almost strange without it now!

Is it a mod? I have had legendary problems installing mods in the past. Will it work with the Civ3 Complete I bought on steam? I will try to figure out how to install it when I begin my next game. I'm pretty technologically challenged.

She probably can't afford to. Weak AI-Civs rarely have sufficient gold/techs to pay a 'fair' price for protection, especially at Regent. Did you try offering an MA for nothing (or an MPP, if you have Nationalism)? She might have gone for that.

I did - and she would have accepted it. I chose not to do it and just declared war anyways, figuring that it was the same result in the end. Is there a bonus to these alliances?

This was risky. Like I said before, eliminating flip-risk may require an inordinately large stack, and if yours isn't quite big enough to zero the probability, you risk losing all the units in it. Better to leave 1-2 decent defenders in the town, and station the 'anti-flip' troops outside. You might also want to consider rushing a Lib to pop the town's borders, since the AI's tendency to found towns at CxxxxC means that just 10 Culture-points might be sufficient to get control of the entire BFC (i.e. no tiles controlled by the AI), which does go a long way to reducing the flip-risk.

Ah, I see. You're saying: let the flip happen, but just immediately retake it so that it isn't a big deal. That does make sense. And as for your war advice: well, take a look!

Spoiler Part 16 (hidden for quick page load) :

I go about filling my armies to their new capacity. I really like this wonder.



This is my interpretation of the plan. I have marked rally-points with the lime boxes and the red lines are railroads to pillage with my armies. I didn't end up pillaging that one disjointed one because it wasn't necessary. I had some minor difficulty with the compass directions, as the game is at a 45 degree angle. Just to clarify: the tobacco is east of Kish?



While getting the necessary infantry and tanks set up for the rapid invasion, Russia lands some cossacks. They fall easily.



Miraculously, my Hwach'a manages to kill one of them! This finally triggers my golden age. In fact: this hwach'a would kill three units in this turnset. When it rains, it pours! A message also popped up saying that it had been promoted to elite status. Does this actually do anything for siege units?



Finally, I am in the Modern Times. I received Computers as my free technology, which seems to be one of the better options to get. Mechanized infantry seem pretty great to me!



With everything finally in place, the war begins.



Alesia is the first to fall. Full steam ahead!



Camulodunum is also mine on the first turn.



Entrement presented much more difficulty. I had to bring in the cavalry army that had captured Camulodunum to finish it, since William's Swiss Mercenaries actually wrecked some of my tanks. Bad luck!



Lots of wonders here, too! And the pyramids! I didn't realize that they gave a free granary in each city. That's pretty amazing - and saves a lot of shields over the long run.



Kish is also captured on the first turn, according to plan. Just now (as I'm writing this) I realized that it began in 1914.



The killing corridor is established and Tarsus is emptied to serve as bait. When I think about it, I perhaps should have left the regular roads for greater effect.



Pollution is proving to be a serious annoyance, so I am focusing on technologies that will allow me to limit its hold on my territories.



I don't think I strictly need it right now, but I get another Great Leader from combat. His troops have slowed to a trickle and I expect that I will go on the offensive in a few turns. I just need a few more percent, and I fully believe that I can close this game out with one more session.

 

[vmxa]

Kibitzer:

CA2 is a utility that can be found on CFC. At times I have had trouble installing in different versions of Win. The latest version is fine for me on Win10.

The Korean UU is not so good as the game goes later. Better to use artillery and not worry about the lethal ability or the rare chance for a leader.

I to am a C3C bigot and have all the version of civ.

The number one issue for the AI and for most players is they do not make enough workers and do not use them well. Hence all the unimproved tiles you see.

 

[tjs282]

This is my interpretation of the plan. I have marked rally-points with the lime boxes and the red lines are railroads to pillage with my armies.

This wasn't quite what I'd had in mind. For a 'classic' Funnel of Doom, it should be your (12+ HP) Army-units stationed on the lime boxes (because they have ZoC, and they almost certainly won't get attacked directly), rather than stacked 4-5 HP units (but D=18+ZoC MechInf are almost as indestructible vs. the AI's A=6 Cavs/Infantry, so that's almost as good!)

I'd also intended for the third lime-box to be the tile SE towards Ugarit (making an 'arrowhead', pointing towards Sumer), rather than NE of the Horses. But your placement is good too, and I would have recommended putting an Army there as well, if you had one spare: I just wasn't sure how many (Inf-)Armies you had by this point.

Just to clarify: the tobacco is east of Kish?

I would call that north-east. Don't get put off by the isometric projection, just treat the top of the map as 'due north'

The Korean UU is not so good as the game goes later. Better to use artillery and not worry about the lethal ability or the rare chance for a leader.

Yeah, that was a mistake I made in my first game as the Koreans*: I didn't upgrade my Hwach'a as early as I could/should have, simply because I didn't want to lose the lethality.

*

Spoiler Shameless self-promotion :

Emperor, All-Random geography + MyCiv + opponents; the story is in the 'pRNGods' thread linked in my signature, if anyone's interested...?

But (@Nolition) Artillery bombard 50% harder (B = 12 vs. 8), 100% further (R = 2 vs. 1), and 100% more often (F = 2 vs. 1) than Hwach'a, so Arty are much more effective units. Next time I play Korea, if I haven't engineered a GA before RepParts comes in, I'll maybe keep just a couple of Hwach'a, and upgrade the rest. Then the Arty can do the redlining, and the Hwach'a can make the kill*.

*

Spoiler Probably unhelpful musings :

I vaguely remembered reading that eHwach'a can also generate MGLs, but I'm not sure where I read that. If true, then contrary to what I said earlier, building (vet) Hwach'a out of Barracks-towns, and getting them promoted (if possible) does actually make more sense. Of course, the first kill made by a (v)Hwach'a will trigger a Korean GA (and thus prevent further Hwacha from being built if Korea already knows RepParts), regardless of whether or not that unit also gets promoted...

 

[Toxicman007]

CivAssist 2 isn't a mod, it functions as a separate application from the main game, but it will automatically overlay into your Civ3. A little icon will appear in the top left corner next to the menu, advisors and civilopedia icons. I have had issues with the most recent version, my antivirus doesn't seem to like it very much so it will often disappear, but to counter this I just downloaded the previous version instead (also available here on CivFanatics).

Well done on winning (almost)! I hope you'll make a second story, this has truly been a joy to read.

 

[Nolition]

CA2 is a utility that can be found on CFC. At times I have had trouble installing in different versions of Win. The latest version is fine for me on Win10.

The number one issue for the AI and for most players is they do not make enough workers and do not use them well. Hence all the unimproved tiles you see.

If anyone has problems installing it, I am sure that it will be me! Let's do this. And yes, the lack of tile improvements in the AI territory is slightly alarming.

I'd also intended for the third lime-box to be the tile SE towards Ugarit (making an 'arrowhead', pointing towards Sumer), rather than NE of the Horses. But your placement is good too, and I would have recommended putting an Army there as well, if you had one spare: I just wasn't sure how many (Inf-)Armies you had by this point.
I would call that north-east. Don't get put off by the isometric projection, just treat the top of the map as 'due north'

Now I can see it a bit better. I wish it were possible to rotate the game by 45 degrees so it was laid out a little more like a board game. The setup did manage to do the job, thankfully.

Does the p in pRNG stand for pseudo? I'll admit that the name confused me quite a bit! I will definitely be checking it out. I don't currently have a Civ3 story to read and I will slot it in between RB civ4 stories. Maybe I'll even play a map and see what I end up doing with it.

Well done on winning (almost)! I hope you'll make a second story, this has truly been a joy to read.

I'm so glad that you've enjoyed it! It's been a ton of fun to play and write up, and I definitely intend to make another. I will be traveling to be with my partner in April, and I will be teaching him what I've learned about Civ3 at that point. If there is some interest, we could post our Civ3 succession writeups. It would be a lot of work to get our completed Civ4 games into a decent state to be read by others, but any future games could be written in a style for others to read.

Spoiler Part 17 (hidden for quick page load) :

After the Dutch units slow to a trickle, it is time to begin my advance. Sumer is now mine.



The Mausoleum of Mausollos! The dutch sure controlled a huge portion of the wonders in this game.



I land one of my own. War weariness is not a significant problem for me at this point, but I'll take the wonder anyhow.



I figure that this is my best bet. I don't expect to be able to research it before I win, but I wouldn't complain about an upgraded form of tank.



After losing an almost fully healed tank army to an infantry in Lagash, I capture the city, along with the Great Wall and the Hanging Gardens.



Since I am extremely close to the domination cap and have access to enough Russian cities to put me over, I conclude this war with the Dutch in order to speed things along.



With Novgorod, I am over the cap! I do a bit of research into what determines score, and transfer all of my spending to luxuries to make my citizens happy. I'm still not totally clear on what factors contribute to score. I'm not a hugely score-focused person, but I do want to get as high of a score as I can. I also feel quite vindicated about Newton's University - capturing it on the final turn sure feels like justice!



I complete my palace on the final turn. Here's a picture of it, just for fun.



And the victory is mine! I didn't realize I'd spent this amount of time on the game over the last few weeks. I've left it open in the background for some of that, so it's not entirely accurate. I enjoyed every minute of it!



I'd forgotten about this screen! This game is so quirky.



For interest, here are the best cities. Presumably it sorts by culture - I'm glad that Seoul is number one.



And a final overview of the victory screen. It took me 432 turns to pull out this domination victory.



I have achieved a rank of Great! Good to know![/quote]

Concluding Thoughts:

This was an enormously fun venture, both in playing the game and writing it up and discussing it here. Thank you to everyone who read this thread, commented, liked my posts, encouraged me and provided excellent feedback on my play. I'll start up a game with a different civilization in short order, and will be taking a different approach to city-settlement and diplomacy. I'm wondering if people think that I should increase the difficulty level to Monarch.

 

[vmxa]

Kibitzer:

Just wondered why you would trade basically even money for two wortheless techs and give them SciMeth? It does not matter at that stage, but it could in a tough game. Demo is a bad gov in what is essentially a war game. Nat is not needed. You already have infantry and no real need to conscript. Your techs are optional and SciMeth is not, hence it moves them farther along the tech tree.

 

[Nolition]

Just wondered why you would trade basically even money for two wortheless techs and give them SciMeth? It does not matter at that stage, but it could in a tough game. Demo is a bad gov in what is essentially a war game. Nat is not needed. You already have infantry and no real need to conscript. Your techs are optional and SciMeth is not, hence it moves them farther along the tech tree.

I was thinking along the lines of maximizing score by obtaining as many techs as possible, no matter the cost to myself. You're correct - those techs are pretty worthless to me at this point. It was more of an endgame ploy.

 

[vmxa]

Kibiitzer:

I figured that was the case. Big things that impact score are land you own, happy and content faces, specialist and lower turn count. Items are added to score per turn are multiplied by difficulty. Then divided by turns played. This means things done late in the game tend to not be as valuable.

 

[tjs282]

Something I noticed when you posted a screenie of your F8-screen earlier, but didn't bring up at the time: 1000 turns for the game?

It might have been helpful to note at the start that you were/are technically playing a mod, rather than the epic game (which has a default 540 turns). Also, AFAIK, if you're playing using a modded .biq, your score is not recorded in your Hall of Fame anyway.

(Unless there is some hidden means of changing "turns in game" during the setup stage for the epic .biq, that I don't know about...?)

 

[Toxicman007]

Something I noticed when you posted a screenine of your F8-screen earlier, but didn't bring up at the time: 1000 turns for the game?

It might have been helpful to note at the start that you were/are technically playing a mod, rather than the epic game (which has a default 540 turns). Also, AFAIK, if you're playing using a modded .biq, your score is not recorded in your Hall of Fame anyway.

(Unless there is some hidden means of changing "turns in game" during the setup stage for the epic .biq, that I don't know about...?)

You can change the amount of turns in the standard game preferences before you start. In the same window that controls how many cities are required for Elimination, for example, or how much gold a Princess will give you (even though Princesses are pretty bugged as far as I know)