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Now THIS is a bad start!

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by tR1cKy, Feb 13, 2005.

  1. tR1cKy

    tR1cKy taking over the world

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    Why so negative about that? Don't you like some variation in the general trend of things? Anyway, don't worry. It's just one chapter of this log written that way. I'm not turning it into a fictional story. Next events will be told in the usual style.

    Note that the chapter is not 'pure fiction'. What i have done is taking the elements worth reporting now and turn them into a small 'story in the story'. You see the different opinions about the best way to lead the attack (the conflicting reports), the concerns in taking a difficult decision (the dialogue between the Caesar and the Counselor), and a possible battle plan for the capture of New York and Chicago.

    I'd like to thank Vanadorn for the inspiration. Without reading its magnificent Pax Romana story, i would never have thought about writing a chapter like this.
     
  2. BlackJAC

    BlackJAC Prince

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    I thought the "holy crap" caption was somewhat amusing to say the least. Many a time have I marched into a city with a stack of cav's (thinking it's going to be a walkover), only to find the AI now has Infantry and tanks garrisoned within the city. :D
     
  3. tR1cKy

    tR1cKy taking over the world

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    @BlackJAC: don't you just love the AI when it awards you with such a wonderful surprise? :gripe:

    ---------------------------------------------

    1140AD - The die is cast

    Nothing happened in the interturn. Once again, no city revolted. But the quelling process of insurgent citizen proceeds slowly. Too slowly. Bob has captured the small settlement of Niniveh, and now only Babylon remains loyal to Jason. The fate of this inept ruler seems obvious.

    The agreement with Alex of Greece has just expired, and it's time to renew it. I offered him 20 turns of peace, iron, horses and 50 gpt in return of Chemistry. My goal now is to achieve Metallurgy. Let's go to talk with that worthless "president". Hello, you smelly bag of puke. How you doing in that pitiful rock in the middle of nowhere? Whatever, i couldn't care less. I was asking just to be nice. Ok, would you like to renegotiate our treaty? No? Whatever, we'll renew it anyway, you don't want to be visited by some roman legions, don't you? Ah, i see you are more reasonable now. Moron.

    After all, Alex turns to be a good guy. He handed over Metallurgy for peace, iron, horses, saltpeter and 42 gold per turn. Not a bad deal. Now catapults can be upgraded to cannons. Alas, i cannot upgrade them in a single shot. I need some artillery parked outside Philadelphia and New York. So i'm sending them in Forte Diavolo in 2 separate shots. Six are upgraded now, the remaining 9 will have to wait next turn.

    Another knight has just been pooped on the pillaged wheat tile north of New York. The damaged archer that was stationed there has moved back into American territory, exactly in my planned attack route! Did those vermins become telepathics? However, i weaken it with a catapult, just to be sure. The remaining shots are delivered to the knight unit. 2 hp removed, enough to have him retreat.

    The town of Nuova Roma has just been founded on the territory of the former Tenochtitlan. An aztec slave is sent inside. Next turn some greek and egyptian people will follow. Slaves are redeployed as usual.

    A total of 17 mounted companies are available for the planned attack. A veteran cross the border, attacks that rotten archer, kills him with no damage and is promoted elite. The others follow along. An awesome force of 10 elite companies and 7 veterans is ready to strike at Washington and, maybe, Chicago. Other units will be in range next turn. This is the moment in which i'm more exposed to a flip, since all my knight units, except for 3, have been sent attacking and cannot go back to recapture a flipped city. One turn more of grace is all i need... will i be blessed once again by the RNG Gods?

    I end the turn...

    --------------------------

    In the shot: the mood of the Roman troops engaged in the American front.

     
  4. tR1cKy

    tR1cKy taking over the world

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    1150AD - The good, the bad, the ugly

    No town has flipped, but some american vermins have been sent harassing my troops. One knight kills one of mine without losing a single hitpoint, and is promoted elite. A rifleman attacks and redlines a second knight, but is killed. Two units less for me, and a rifle less defending Washington.

    Anyway, the population of Washington has dropped from 12 to 11. Why? Rampant unhappiness or drafted rifleman? I must consider the worst option. With 2 attackers less and 1 defender more, although conscript, my chances of failure would be even higher.

    Let's do some math. Presuming no less than 5 veteran rifles, and probably 1 conscript, it will be 22 hp for the scumbags. On my side, 8 elites and 7 veterans. 68 hitpoints. They were 78 before the skirmish. Attack, 4. Defense: 10,5-12. The dreaded words "failed attack" are sounding in my mind.

    Chicago is size 12. No drafted units then. Abe thinks that i would attack in Washington. Should it mean that Chigago is less defended? From the gathering point, i can attack both cities. If defenses in Chicago are weaker, say 3 rifles, the hp count would be 68-12. A good chance to conquer it.

    I send my troops to Chicago.

    Cannons. 2 units. They fire and hits. The first knight is killed and the 2nd retreats redlined, while the defender stays undamaged. The 3rd retreats redlined, but finally tear off 1 hitpoint from the rifle. Two other knights retreat at 1/4, and both of them tear off 1 hp from a veteran rifle. The wounded rifleman remain visible.

    3 riflemen at 3/4 hitpoint. Bingo!

    Another attack. Knight killed, american vermin promoted to elite. The last veteran attack, manage to reduce that damn vermin at 2/5 but it's killed. The elites go in. Rifle redlined at 1/4, knight killed. Rifle weakened at 2/4, knight killed. They should have an higher retreat chance, damn'em!

    The rifle at 2/4 is still visible. Another charge, and it's killed. The rifle at 2/5 appears and is killed. A veteran knight appears! 4 elites at full hitpoint are still to be used in the attack. A charge, and the knight is killed. The redlined rifle must be the last one. Another charge, and the last defender in Chicago is sent to hell. City captured, a frigate and a galleon sunk, but the harbor has been destroyed. No contact with the other cities then. And no barracks. Healing will be slow. Casualties: 5 knights killed, 4 redlined, 6 less damaged and only 2 at full strength. We'll need reinforcements, and the artillery. The 6 upgraded cannons are sent north, escorted by 2 muskets. Two more have been captured in Chicago. More knights are on the way.

    A combat settler would be useful, and i was hoping to carve it from San Francisco, but those scumbags refuse to be sedated. I rush it in Forte Pizza (size 3 next turn). But it won't be in the combat zone before 3 turns.

    It's been a pyrrhic victory for Rome. 5 divisions lost are a damn lot. No immediate attack on Washington. Another city at risk of revolt. But choosing Washington would have meant almost certainly a failure.

    I've raised again the WW points of Abe. If i bring America on a revolution, those vermins could not build reinforcements for 2-3 turns. We are both struggling in this fight. Abe is almost doomed, but the cost of the final victory is yet to be defined. It could be greater than expected.

    The two cannons bombard the American frigates harassing the city. 2 good shots, and 2 lousy boats damaged. I hit enter. The bastard knight fortified on the mountain SW of Washington charges my stack and kills a elite. Then it retreats damaged in Washington.

    In the New World, Bob of the Iroquois has conquered Babylon. The last city of the ex Babylonian Republic is fallend in the hand of the Iroquois. Bye bye Jason. You've been so dumb that you deserved it.

    The good news are that, once again, no conquered city has revolted.

    --------------------------

    In the picture: a full screenshot of the northern front after the end of the turn. Only 3 core cities are still loyal to Abe. But America can still bite.

     
  5. Communisto

    Communisto Condottiere

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    shouldn't this go in the story and tales forum by now?
     
  6. Admiral8Q

    Admiral8Q Prince

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    Haha! True, I remember when this thread was new! :lol:

    Looks like you've done really well there tricky! :hatsoff: What skill level are you playing on BTW? :confused:
     
  7. BlackBetsy

    BlackBetsy Chieftain

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    How did Philly lose a pop point between the last two screen shots? In 1140, it shows 11 population and growing in 18 turns. In 1150, it shows a 10 population and growing in 16 turns.

    Was Philly no longer in resistance such that you were able to pop rush something? I thought even San Fran was still in resistance.
     
  8. tR1cKy

    tR1cKy taking over the world

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    Hi! Glad to see some new people posting here!
    :beer:
    Now some replies:

    @Communisto: yeah, i think it's time. This thread started as something different, then turned into a game log. At first time, i was reluctant to ask this thread to be moved. I wasn't sure at all if i could win this game and, well, making its debut in the S&T zone with a loss... ahem... :blush:
    Once i'll wipe out America, i'll ask the mods if they can move the thread.

    @Admiral8Q: hehe thanks! The difficult level is Deity. It's the vanilla civ3, 1.29f. Modded, but not made easier. I didn't expected to do so well, it's only my 6th deity game so far.

    @BlackBetsy: Good spotting! It's something i forgot to mention in the game log. There are some pesky frigates around Philadelphia and New York. They are bombarding the cities, and in the last interturn they manage to kill 1 pop unit in Philadelphia. All the american cities are still in resistance.

    Tonight i should post another log. Ciao ciao!
     
  9. Zelda's Man

    Zelda's Man A Link to Something

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    Perhaps you should send someone to pillage the ivory. They only have one of those while they have 3 furs so the loss of ivory would definitely make them unhappy.

    Is that your caravel on the bottom left corner? Isn't it dangerous out there with all of America's frigates?
     
  10. Jopedamus I

    Jopedamus I Immortality is reality

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    Nicely written, enjoyable to read and well played so far... :goodjob:
     
  11. k-a-bob

    k-a-bob Waiting patiently.......

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    Quick note tR1cKy,

    If you leave America on an island- still watch for culture flips. I had Washington flip (at peace) when their only city was on an island about 30 tiles away! And Washington wasn't even on the coast!
     
  12. Peck of Arabia

    Peck of Arabia Sociable Recluse

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    Good question! where am I?
    Great Game log, I've been following it more or less from when it started and I, for one, like the variation in the logs, made (i.e. where it was a bit more "story-like") a bit of variation didn't hurt anyone. However I would like to made the point (I'm quite picky like this) That there have been several references of praying to Zeus. I would like to point out that Romans did not worship Zeus, but worshipped the Roman equivilant of Jupiter. And, surely since a lot of war is going on, a prayer to Mars the god of war, could not go amiss?

    Well that's all I have to comment on, a bit of variety and which gods should be prayed to, sad isn't it?
     
  13. tR1cKy

    tR1cKy taking over the world

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    Hi U all, fellow posters! (and lurkers, of course)

    @Jopedamus: thanx! (what else can i say?)

    @Zelda's: yes, it's the only ivory source. I thought about negating it, and rejected the idea at first, because the knight would have been surely killed. But now it wouldn't be bad to send an already redlined knight to negate this resource. 2 happy people less could mean some cities rioting at this point. And the suicide knight would divert american troops from attacking my stack.

    @Peck: why sad? any comment is appreciated. First, thanks for the positive comments! About Zeus, well i know that Jupiter would be more accurate. To be precise, Zeus and Jupiter are the same god, the first being the greek name and the other being its latin equivalent. I used Zeus because 1) it's more well known (the statue of Zeus...) and 2) in my opinion, the name sounds more "god-like" than Jupiter... a matter of personal taste and no more. About Mars, i've refrained from using other gods to reflect the fact that Rome became monotheistic almost a millennium ago (in the game time, of course!)

    @k-a-bob: you've been badly screwed by the whims of the RNG gods!!! I can imagine the curses... :D Yes, there's that problem. And i need to leave America with at least 1 city to extort techs from it. There's a colony half world away, i think i'm safe enough. Anyway, i'll purge the conquered towns from the indigenous population (they'll be fine slaves) and replace them with nationals. This will lower the flip chance almost to zero... perhaps...

    ---------
    psssst... next update coming soon!
     
  14. BlackBetsy

    BlackBetsy Chieftain

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    Actually, you'd have to send a substantial force to pillage the ivory. A knight could not reach the ivory and pillage it in the same turn - it is 2 movement points away. It would have to sit there, survive a counterattack, and then pillage. Sending a redlined unit would just mean you would have one fewer unit, unless the Artificial Stupidity didn't counterattack. A cavalry unit could do it, though, if you got MT.
     
  15. k-a-bob

    k-a-bob Waiting patiently.......

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    I'll have to put up a screenshot of the location of Miami to Washington. :crazyeye:
    I guess they didn't like my warring ways (an Iroquois city flipped the same turn - but I was at war with them.) It didn't take anything to get it back - I waited 4 turns till my peace deal expired and retook it - this time razing it and refounding in a better spot.
    I'm just mean that way! :devil:

    Keep up the good work!
     
  16. Zelda's Man

    Zelda's Man A Link to Something

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    I had figured that it would take two turns, but I thought it might be a worthwhile venture to send a couple of units that direction. Depending on whether or not America is trading for more luxuries, the ivory could be making several citizens happy per city which would have a substantial effect if lost (I am sure all 3 cities have marketplaces). However, if the idea is to take a full-scale attack on Washington within a turn or two, then perhaps all units need to be stationed together. Just something to ponder and strategize with.
     
  17. tR1cKy

    tR1cKy taking over the world

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    Update coming, but first some quick replies.

    @k-a-bob: good move. Razing and refounding is greatly effective, since the newfound city would have zero enemy culture.

    @BlackBetsy: no MT, and no cavalry then :( - i have to do the job with knights. Your views on the ivory affair are correct, but it's the whole situation that is quite complicated and potentially dangerous. I've addressed better the matter on the following update. Feel free to post an opinion about my choosed path, even if its negative :D

    @Zelda's: alas, the turns needed are 3, supposing the city of Chicago remains loyal, and then we'll have do deal with a slow healing process (remember: no barracks around). I've pondered a lot the situation, and examined the possible alternatives. None of them are pleasant, including the choosed one... just see and judge by yourself...

    -----------------------------

    1160AD - Walking on a minefield

    The situation is potentially dangerous. To focus more on the critical stuff, non-critical issues are addressed first :) The last catapults are upgraded into cannons, and those cannons already available are sent in support of the "insurance troops" stationed outside Philadelphia and New York. I cannot do much for Chicago, just leave inside a knight an hope for another turn of grace.

    A knight is rushed in Forte Diavolo - it's costly but i'm a little short of those beasts at the moment. Slaves are redeployed. Reinforcements are sent through the communication line. 2 extra muskets are available in Forte Pizza, and are sent to San Francisco to (try to) speed up the quelling process. The combat settler moves north and reach Atlanta. The stack of cannons and muskets proceeds north (another obvious move).

    Now, it's time to deal with that lone ivory tile. Cutting off that luxury would mean 2 happy citizens less in all the American cities, a situation which is likely to cause civil disorder at least somewhere. Abe is already suffering heavy war weariness, and this move could be the decisive blow to its production potential.

    A precisation is necessary: while the most effective move would be pillaging it, it's sufficient to have an unit sit on that luxury to negate it at least in this turn, and this would be enough to wreak havoc in loyalist cities. Even if occupation forces are killed in the interturn, next turn they can move there again and repeat the process.

    There are 2 basic ways to negate that resource. The 1st would be sending a suicide unit, like an already redlined knight, to sit on it. The second would be sending a substantial force, strong enough to withstand the skirmish, and pillage the tile in the successive turn. Normally i would opt for the 2nd, but in this particular situation i don't think it's the best course of action. It would take 3 turns to move, pillage and return, in which no unit could heal. If i send a suicide unit, the others can stay fortified and have a chance to regain some hitpoints, or instead move SE to benefit of the protection of cannons and muskets.

    Then, there's the Chicago problem. The grace period has expired. Now, with 8 tiles under foreign control, 11 citizens resisting, a distance of only 3 tiles from the American capital (opposed to the 30 or so from Athens), a substantial enemy culture and a global culture ratio of 2 and a half to 1, what are my chances to see it still in my hands in the next turn? It doesn't need an expert of the culture flip formula to give an answer.

    Ok. There's a suicide knight that is supposed to fulfill 2 tasks: negate a luxury for one turn and divert skirmishers from the healing stack. But... how about offering a better bait, like the undefended city of Chicago? The knight could survive enough to pillage the ivory tile, at the cost of a city that is likely to be lost anyway...

    An alternative would be betting on Chicago not revolting, give the stack a chance to heal, and sacrifice the suicide knight instead. Then we could have a luxury negated for one turn, a knight killed, and probably a city less.

    I'm seriously considering the idea of leaving Chicago open to the American recapture. The wounded stack could move back to my territory, reach Forte Diavolo in 2 turn with a movement left to fortify, then be healed quickly. And if i don't sent one redlined knight to the ivory tile, but 2 units at (almost) full hitpoints, the probability of pillaging it would raise significantly.

    Seeing how things look like, probably the best move would have been to delay the attack and wait for better support by muskets and cannons. I'm really tempted to reload the game and behave that way, but honestly... i've played this game fairly so far... cannot do that, not after i've posted such a log. If i was playing a strictly private match, and no one would never know... perhaps...

    I move the stack SE, then south, send a musket in support, move the 2 units defending Chicago on the ivory tile, then send the 2 cannons captured in Chicago to reach the stack.

    That little triangle in the top-left corner of the screen is tempting. To hell with it! The game will be played fairly and, if i'm screwed up, i'll change my personal title in "complete idiot", as someone did before...

    I open the city screen of Chicago, sell all the improvements, toss an unrepeatable sequence of profanities, then finally hit enter.

    A frigate tear off 1 hitpoint at the defender in Philadelphia.

    A knight walk into the undefended Chicago and recapture it.

    A knight charge from Boston and kill my full-strength elite knight.

    Another knight charge from Boston. The 2nd knight is redlined but victorious!

    I've achieved my goal, for a measley hitpoint. And no city has revolted. The curiosity to reload just to see how things could have gone if i choosed a different course of action is great. But it would be too tempting, and i want to continue playing a fair game.

    Chicago is lost, but Abe is left with 2 happy faces less and some WW points more. It could have gone worse.

    In the picture: the actual situation on the northern front, at the start of the 1170AD turn, with the next planned moves.

     
  18. mrtn

    mrtn Shaven not stirred

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    I'm fairly sure that you have to pillage a resource to remove it, not just stand on it. That's what pillaging is for, after all.
    I'm not sure how to understand you, but just fortifying your units won't make them heal faster, you have to let them stand still for that.
     
  19. tR1cKy

    tR1cKy taking over the world

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    I may be wrong but... in my past memories, when an enemy walked on a resource owned by me, that resource was negated, or at least this is how i recall the events. Anyway, a knight has survived and it's my turn now, so bye bye ivory.
    I know it. Actually, if they don't fortify they don't heal at all. What part of the log are you referring to? I may have been unclear somewhere... :confused:
     
  20. Aleph-Null

    Aleph-Null What Would Optimus Do?

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    tricky, you are correct. placing an enemy unit is enough to cut off the trade. the reason to pillage is so that you don't have to keep the unit there or if that unit is killed the trade remains severed until a worker can rebuild the road.

    Oh, and I've been reading the thread every day. :)
     

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