Now THIS is a bad start!

[tR1cKy]

"swordarmy"
The AI has really used a leader to create an army, filled it with units and used it?
That`s awesome. Never happened to me.

Probably you're playing conquest. In vanilla the AS quite often build armies and fill them properly (not always!). Sometimes, they also use leaders to do some clever wonder rushbuild.

I've heard that in C3C the AS are quite incapable to do anything constructive with leaders. Strange thing. Firaxis took something that worked, messed up with it, and came out with something totally broken... probably their pusher sold them some crappy stuff

 

[Grogs]

Probably you're playing conquest. In vanilla the AS quite often build armies and fill them properly (not always!). Sometimes, they also use leaders to do some clever wonder rushbuild.

Which is sad because armies are SO much better in conquests. In Vanilla/PtW, the only thing I will use an army for is defense (and winning one battle so I can build heroic epic.) I've never seen an AI army (personally) but I've heard tales of them being filled in horrible ways, like 1 spear, 1 archer, and 1 horseman.

 

[tR1cKy]

Hiya dudez!

@Coolio: those pesky pukemen cannot stand the awesomeness of the mighty Roman army! There won't be one left alive

@Grogs: sometimes, i too saw absurd combinations, like 2 cavalries and 1 rifleman (!) - but also good armies, like 3 infantry or 3 cavalry units. Probably it depends from the units available at the moment. If there aren't enough units of the same type, the AS screws up with crazy choices, like the one you witnessed

AND NOW... THE NEXT 2 TURNS

---------------------------------------------------

1420AD - Operation Sitting Bull, phase 2

In the interturn, little happens except for some naval engagement. An enemy frigate come to attack my fleet stationed on the last node, but is sunk. Another frigate comes and manage to kill one of mines. Some pesters move on my territory: 2 pukeman on a dye tile and the veteran rifleman on the irrigated plains north of Ashur.

Mario of the Persians asks for a MPP + right of passage... why not? Now Bob cannot seriously hope to sign peace with Persia. Good for me... but i thought that i had already an alliance with him against the Iroquois... instead there were no such agreement. WTH?

Ok, after a few inquiring i figured it out. Someone a few turns ago suggested me to sign a MPP or an alliance with Persia. I thought something like: mhh, good idea, let's do it once war starts... and then i forgot to sign that treaty... and actually, in my previous updates, there's nothing about signing an alliance with Persia.

A settler has been pooped from Ashur, and it's iroquois. Now, what to do with it? My first idea was to build a fort in the spot marked as (1), to provide an efficient route for the capture of Babylon. I've also considered the spot (2), for faster connection. But there's a problem: Uruk. That city is rank 3 now. Once captured Babylon, Uruk must be captured quickly, or else its cultural pressure would be a big problem. That's why i have choosed the spot marked as (3) for my new fort. The white border marks the territory it will claim and the light yellow arrows are the attack vectors for the capture of Babylon and Uruk. These 2 cities, and the incense tile west of Babylon, are the objectives of Operation Sitting Bull, phase 2. The attack will be a coordinated strike, in which 2 stack of cannons and riflemen will move in the enemy territory, then next turn the cannons will weaken defenders and cavalries will strike.

It will need 3 turns from now to move all the available cannons in the attack zone. Too much. But if i use only the 4 cannons around Forte Augusto, they can be in range 2 turns from now. Well, i think that 4 cannons could be enough, but the wounded cavalries cannot arrive in time! No problem, i'll send reinforcements from the shipchain and see if i can do the job without waiting for all the redlined units to heal and move.

In the meantime, i move half of the cannons to the designated spot for the fort, along with the settler and some riflemen. The other 2 are used to bombard the rifleman harassing my plains (they can reach the spot anyway). Cannons in Forte Cesare weaken the 2 enemy pukemen. Cavalries sent through the shipchain finish them off. Another enemy frigate has been sunk, at zero cost.

The shipchain is ok in numbers, but won't be functional for 2 turns. Some galleons need to be sent back. I'll have to attack with only the units available at the moment... but they will probably be enough.

A worker is rushed in Pasagardae. The other 3 stay fortified in the city. If i manage to acquire Steam Power next turn, they'll be immediately sent to build a rail line in the conquered part of the New World. For the same reason, workers and slaves in the Old World are moved toward the core cities.

I end the turn. No more iroquois pesters enter my territory. Abe offers me a mutual protection pact for 13gpt. I refuse, unwillingful to give some war happiness to Bob, but since Abe is here i offer him to trade world maps. The resistance in Susa is over. Good, we can start immediately to rush workers. Oka and Kaname are still resisting.


1425AD: The iroquois have fallen into anarchy, at least. Well, it would have been better to have them stay in republic a little bit more, but it was ineluctable that all those war weariness points would have led to the fall of the Republic. And since their turn came before the american, signing an alliance with Abe (thus giving Bob some war happiness) would not have avoided the revolt.

Anyway, i can still give a serious blow before monarchy is established. All my cavalries in Forte Cesare have healed, and i can count on 15 divisions for the attack. First, i build forte Caligola. Then i send all the units present in the fort to the plain south of Babylon. The strongest defender is a regular pike! Too bad the visible defender in Uruk is a veteran rifle, but the city is size 6 and offers no defense bonus for that vermin.

The army in Pasagardae is loaded with the starred Death Knight and 2 veteran units. All the cavalries, except for 2 units, are moved in Forte Caligola. 1 army and 11 divisions are ready to attack.

In Susa, a settler is rushed to build the 2nd fort on the original spot. All the units are moved outside in order to ensure a quick recapture of the city should those maggot flip back.

The shipchain is fully established at least. From next turn, 4 reinforcement can arrive every turn in Forte Augusto.

Now my money is enough to a steal technology mission on Abe. I open the espionage menu and [insert curse here] i discover that money isn't enough. The price has raised. 2400 golds and some lousy cent. My treasure is 2391 gold [insert insane flow of curses here]

The espionage mission is delayed 1 turn. Since the cash will be enough, a temple is rushed in Persepolis. And workers are further moved to the core territory. The turn ends. Here's the situation at the front:

 

[tR1cKy]

1430AD - Double attack

In the interturn, no city flipped. I feared for Susa, but nothing happened. The city went into WLTKD and pooped an iroquois settler, useful for the next fort. Although size 4, the city will be in WLTKD this turn, and with 3 only iroquois left and 3 tiles under enemy control, the danger is greatly reduced.

An enemy cavalry came from north and attacked Susa. The defending rifleman is redlined but victorious, and the enemy lied dead in the battlefield. And i've just made another mistake: that damaged rifleman escaped in the safety of Babylon (safety... ), but now it can defend with a 50% bonus more. I should have it killed when in the open plains Nothing tragic, or at least i hope so...

An enemy galley approached the coast and dropped its deadly cargo of 1 pukeman and 1 longbowman in the dye tile south of Forte Augusto.

Cannons bombard Babylon, doing no damage.

The army attacks and kills the rifleman. The regular pike shows up. A veteran cavalry charges. Attacker redlined, defender killed. Now a veteran spearman shows up. Another veteran cavalry attacks, but tears off only 1hp from the enemy before retreating redlined! A tough spear... but the last veteran gets rid of it. A redlined musket is now visible. The 1st elite unit kills it and captures the city! Babylon and the Pyramids are now in my hands. Granaries for everyone... but only in the New World.

There are unexpected good news: the population of Babylon is still made of natives, except for 1 iroquois vermin that is resisting... but the babylonian part of the city is quite happy under the Roman Crown. In this picture is showed the importance of a coordinated strike at Babylon and Uruk: without it, Babylon would be almost surrounded by enemy squares:

Now it's time to deal with Uruk. I have only 6 units left, but they're all elites, and that veteran rifle has only an 8.1 defense value. The 1st unit charges: defender at 2/4, attacker redlined. A veteran pukeman is now visible, and the 2nd elite is sent to deal with it: defender killed, attacker redlined. The damaged rifle is visible again! The 3rd elite kills it, and captures the city. Once again, good news: all the inhabitants are natives except 1 iroquois stinker in resistance. The remaining scum is happy.

The domination countdown is updated again: 706 tiles owned, 153 to go. 2 riflemen are moved into Uruk, and the mounted army is stationed in Babylon. The damaged cavalries are sent to Forte Caligola for a quick heal. Obviously, the barracks under construction is rushed immediately.

Hostilities aren't over yet. There are 1 musketman and 1 spearman that need to be sent to hell. Cannons weaken the musket and a cavalry finish him off. Another cavalry dispose of the spear. Both of them are promoted elite! The settler is sent to built a fort in the tile previously marked as (1), escorted by some rifles and a mounted unit.

Now it's time to do that damn espionage mission on America. It succeeds and i come back with Steam Power and Democracy - yes, it's useless, but America doesn't know any other industrial technology. I was hoping for Industrialization, but no luck.

I have a whopping 6 coal tiles in my territory! In the mainland, workers start immediately to build rails. The 2 harassers south of Forte Augusto are disposed of by 2 free cavalries from Forte Caligola. The damaged frigate and the lousy boat are sent at the bottom of the sea.

4 riflemen are sent through the shipchain. A temple is rushed in Ashur. The resistance in Kaname is quelled at last, but i haven't enough money to rush a temple. I rush a worker, it will aid the other one present in building some rails.

The iroquois now are a monarchy. They are stronger, more rich and more productive. If the invasion was a run against time, not it's a restless rush. Bob must be hit as hard as possible before he has a chance of reinforce himself. If i'm fast enough in my conquest, i can cripple its military potential definitively.

The turn is over. Here's a shot of the newly conquered territory. The next objective is yet to be choosed.

 

[Chazbagel]

Can i see a world map? I want to see how deep into the IRiq territory you've taken.

 

[Jason Fliegel]

I'd also like to see a world map because I want to know if a naval blockade of America in order to break their trade deal with Bob is feasible.

 

[El Dorko Grande]

Nice, you can grab Salpeter and Iron with one settler if you found a fort N-E-E from Babylon

 

[CoolioVonHoolio]

WHOOOOHOOOO the you got the pyramids!!! is it possible to get a cultural victory on this game or did you block it out because youve gotta watch out for that if your going for the conquest victory... also watch out for the domination victory.

 

[tR1cKy]

Hi guyz! First, reply time:

AndrewH: a world map is included in this update

Jason:I've never used a naval blockade to negate a trade deal. If i sign a ROP with America then block all the spots with ships, the american capital will pratically be blocked, but i don't know if, with the ROP in place, this count as a negation of trade lines (but i fear not). I prefer not to wage war with America at the moment, so an invasion without a ROP treaty is not an option.

If i want to block the international water, in order to not anger Abe, the number of ship required is way beyond my actual possibilities.

El Dorko: there are other sources of iron in the Iroquois territory. And 2 sources of coal buried deep in the internal part of the continent, in zones still far away from the front. Saltpeter is a different matter: only 2 sources, 1 where you say and the other in the NE part, on a coastal tile. Negating it would be an option, but i have no war ships in the zone. Building one and sending it to pillage the tile would require several turns. But next turn i could rush a frigate in Santa Peppa and send it there. The decision will be taken next turn.

Coolio: i'm just expanding into the Iroquois territory. The Pyramids are goods so the cities in the New World can reach size 7 in half the time required (and enemy cities will grow slower from now). I'm not aiming at a cultural victory. My goal is to win the game as fast as i can, and the shortest route is world domination. (What else, Pinky?)

1435AD - Operation Sitting Bull, phase 3

In the interturn, two iroquois cavalries attack my units protecting the settler. One redlines a rifle and is killed. The other one kills the 2nd rifle and retreats in the safety of iroquois territory. I'm starting to meet some opposition.

A spearman has moved over my only incense resource west of Babylon. And i discover that i was wrong: moving on an enemy luxury don't automatically deny the resource. The tile must be pillaged. A cavalry has been disembarked on the open plains NW of Uruk. Does that sucker really hope to survive?

The spear and the cavalry are welcomed by my soldiers, in a definitive manner.

The fort is built, and 10 more tiles are claimed. 716 owned, 143 to go. Forte Nerone is set to build a barracks that is rushed immediately. The redlined rifle is disbanded, in case of an attack it wouldn't be of much help anyway. Only 12 gold spent for the rush.

Time to take a look at the histograph, and at the culture in particular. The ratio (iroquois/mine) is 1.3325. I'd better calculate the safe level of troops for some cities and forts.

[pre]
Forte Caligola: 2
Persepolis : 3
Forte Nerone : 4
Babylon : 7
Oka & Kaname :11 (*)
Susa & Uruk :15 (*)
Others: zero.
[/pre]

The resistance in Babylon has ended and now the city is in WLTKD. There are enough troops to prevent a flip.

Uruk is quite at risk, there's still 1 iroquois resisting. Quelling that puke and tear it off the city could be tempting, but the loss of units in case of flip would be unreasonable. Susa is already guarded. A worker is rushed in it. One stinker left next turn.

Temples are rushed in Babylon and Pasagardae. I could rush another temple in Forte Cesare but i prefer to finish the library in Seattle (140 bucks). That city has 3 clowns inside it, bettern turn them into slaves.

Reinforcement are sent through the shipchain. 3 cavalries and 1 cannon. They are garrisoned outside Susa.

It's important now to expand the rail line before moving any troops. I send all the peons working on it and here's what i got:

Now, what's the next objective? I have 2 possibilities. The first is showed in the next pic: build a fort in the spot, claiming the land bordered by the lightyellow lines, and strike at Arbela and Tonawanda next turn. The following target would be Akkad (in the northwest) and should be captured ASAP, or else its cultural pressure would be a big threat. But a big problem would be the lack of a road connecting Tonawanda and the fort. Peons must be sent to road that tile.

If we turn the production in Susa into a settler, the attack should take place 2 turns from now. Here's the map:

The 2nd possible attack is showed in the following pic: build a fort in the spot, claiming the yellow bordered land, and move cannons to the mountains as showed by the arrow. The next turn, an attack on Ur (founded on hills!) will be possible. Supposing to have the necessary settler, i have 7 cannon units able to move on the mountain in 2 turns. 3 turns for the attack, then. Drawbacks: none.

The settler could be provided by Babylon or Uruk, if resistance is quelled. Uruk would be better. Here's the map:

The third option would be a coordinated attack on both the targets But i'm unsure about having the necessary units. In the meantime, cannons are moved to the zone of operations, escorted by a rifleman. The plans are at risk of being twarted. If Susa or Uruk flip, bye bye settlers in time for the attack. Settlers would be needed from elsewhere, and the attack would be delayed of at least 1 turn. I hope nothing bad happens.

Now, by popular demand, an extra illustration. Here's the world map as today. In only 9 turns of war i have grabbed a significant portion of the Iroquois territory: 8 cities captured and 4 forts founded.

 

[Shadow Phoenix]

#1. When can you rush temples and fill in those spots?
#2. Why not grab that lonely city on a lonely islanld?
#3. he is in monarchy. Does it mean less WW points?

 

[Puppeteer]

#1. When can you rush temples and fill in those spots?
#2. Why not grab that lonely city on a lonely islanld?
#3. he is in monarchy. Does it mean less WW points?

1: I think he is rushing temples in various cities as he goes. He seems to be planning very carefully which tiles he gets and with what culture level he gets them.

2: That lonely city in the middle of the map? That's American, and he gave it to Abe so if the Iroquois wiped out Americas other cities Abe would have the island to live, be at war with Iroquois and maintain the war weariness. However, see next question. Either way, with either small island it's a few diverted ships and troops that could capture tiles more quickly in Iroquois' mainland. And neither island is a military threat to him. In fact I don't recall why he bothered to take that 2-city island.

3: He recently fell from Republic into Anarchy and emerged in Monarchy. War weariness is gone. Military police now help happiness. Troop support is cut drastically. Another reason for Emperor tR1cKy to keep pounding on the Iroquois with everything he's got.

 

[Puppeteer]

It's a tR1cKy world!

 

[tR1cKy]

Puppeteer: thanx for the great addon! And thanx for replying to Shadow's questions. However, i must correct you on a single thing:

#2: the city is Persian, not American. Things went as you say, the only difference is that Knossos is the lone persian city now. The story of that lousy town is interesting: it was the only greek settlement left, then Greece went to war with me because of a broken trade route (peace renewal was part of the treaty). I was reinforcing my army for the invasion of the Iroquois republic, so i captured it without losing turns. Then, when Bob was about to completely swallow Persia, i gave it to the persians so the war could continue, and Bob couldn't exit from war weariness. An so a greek city became the city-state of Persia

Big things are coming, and this time they're not exactly nice...

--------------------------------------------------

1440AD - The joy of being a Conqueror...

... comes at a price:

I've done a turn reload (1335) just for the curiosity to see how much i've been unlucky... Last turn the culture ratio (american/mine) was 1.1709 - in New York there were 8 americans, the city had more original culture than mine but was in WLTKD. Garrisoned troops: 2. Flip chance: (8*1.17*2*0.5)-2 = 9.56 not counting the distance between the capitals. From Athens: 7 west, 18 north. From Houston: 17 east, 22 north, more than double. An estimate of 4% each turn... yes, quite unlucky.

I should have tear off some natives, but a city size 7+ was good in troop support... well, i should have tear them off anyway, but what is done is done. Let's go back to the present and decide what to do now. First, the map:

I think the best way to deal with the problem is to leave New York alone, for now. A war with America, although short, would mean diverting troops from the offensive on the Iroquois front. Not counting that it would take a few turns to move some boats to Houston and unload the necessary troops.

For domination purposes, i've lost 21 tiles. Since the original culture is retained, i can have them back just by recapturing the town. The count in now: 695 tiles owned, 164 to go, but it's as they are 143. I have 4 cavalry units in the zone, enough to destroy a regular rifleman. New York is like some money i have in a bank. I can withdraw them at the right time.

The assimilation of the 2 major islands of the New World would provide me about 100 tiles, once every captured town will reach rank 2. Another 40 or so would come from cultural expansion of forts and captured towns. And 10 more tiles would come from Seattle and Miami reaching rank 3. Last turn i rushed a library in Seattle. If i do the same thing in Miami now, those cities will reach rank 3 in 10 turns from now.

In a few works, a damn complicated situation.

Since i have pooped that damn settler, it wouldn't be a bad idea to use it as intended. The tile count is enough to reach the domination limit without further advancements in the iroquois core, but a bit of redundancy isn't a bad thing. I move the settler to the designated spot, along with a few riflemen and a fair number of cavalry units. Too bad i'm short of riflemen, i must send them through the shipchain, and this means that i cannot send the necessary workers to build a road to Tonawanda... probably i'd better ditch that city and concentrate on Arbela and Akkad.

In the Old World, i'm still building up the rail network. Athens and Romola are now connected. The needed riflemen are loaded in Texoco and disembarked in Forte Augusto.

Temples are rushed in Forte Cesare and Forte Augusto. Susa starts a temple. I have no money for an immediate rush of walls in Forte Caligola, nor i can rush a worker in Kaname. We'll have to wait next turn. In the meantime, here's the strategic map of the front zone.

I end the turn, and nothing relevant happens. Abe withdraws from the expiring trade treaty, and i don't see a reason to renew it. Iron and saltpeter for 15 gpt. I can live without them.

 

[mrtn]

I would retake New York and start building slaves. You don't have to take the other American cities, just leave them be and sign peace after some turns again. And I see no great need to care about your reputation anymore.

 

[Shadow Phoenix]

I would retake New York and start building slaves. You don't have to take the other American cities, just leave them be and sign peace after some turns again. And I see no great need to care about your reputation anymore.

agreed.
and by the city, i dont mean that one. I mean the one to the left bottom of Iraquis island

 

[CoolioVonHoolio]

I'm not aiming at a cultural victory. My goal is to win the game as fast as i can, and the shortest route is world domination. (What else, Pinky?)

I understand this tricky but you might reach it whether you like it or not...

 

[Jason Fliegel]

I agree -- retake New York. And start building workers in all your American cities. A 4% chance of a flip isn't much, but think of it this way: you've got a 96% chance of not flipping after one turn; a 96% * 96% = approximately 92% chance of not flipping in two turns; an approximately 88% chance that there won't be a flip after three turns; and so on. It's more likely than not that New York would flip after 17 turns (this assumes a constant 4% per turn chance of flip; obviously, you're building Roman culture during those 17 turns, so the 4% is gradually decreasing).

And in terms of my suggested naval blockade, it won't work because there's a land route between Houston and the Irroquois. You'd have to pillage the roads between the American capital and Bob's territory and blockade the harbor for a blockade strategy to work.

 

[Jason Fliegel]

I understand this tricky but you might reach it whether you like it or not...

Keep in mind that most (all?) of his wonders are captured, so he's not getting any culture from them.

 

[CoolioVonHoolio]

Keep in mind that most (all?) of his wonders are captured, so he's not getting any culture from them

I didnt know they didnt give culture... ya learn somethin everyday doncha? i also agree to retake new york and in the case of the iroquois, they havent had a counter-attack? it doesnt look like it?!?


Oh and BTW congradulate me on my 100th post WHOOOHOOO

 

[Abegweit]

I understand this tricky but you might reach it whether you like it or not...

Listen to what he said. His objective is the fastest win and he has said that fastest win is domination. Not surprising because domination almost always is the fastest.

If the fastest win from this position was 100K he would be ripping out temples and libraries. He is not. And rightly so. I have not seen any culture rankings but it would astonish me to find out that he was even halfway there.